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Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Convinced you of Requiem?

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

How come I convinced you?

128 (edited by Norm d'Plume 2018-04-12 04:21:24)

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Somewhere along the way, I discovered (and then forgot) that requiem also means funeral Mass (not just music), primarily in the Catholic Church. Seems like a good fit since the old heaven and old earth will pass away in the End Times (Revelation). It's also completely unused on Amazon. It requires a little Catholic knowledge to get someone to click past the title, but so be it. Its one down side is that the reference to Heaven may turn away people who might otherwise stop to click/read the summary for a supernatural thriller. I had the same problem with the word God in the title of my space opera story. That was the original reason I settled on Unholy Lords of the Earth, but that title has its own issues. You put Unholy and Lord together in a title, and Christians will fume and skip right past it. They're my primary target audience (2.2 billion Christians and 1.2 billion Catholics). I have 4-6 years to change my mind another fifty times.

Time for OCD medication.

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

I think, as an agnostic, non-religious, reader, I would skip straight past anything that seemed too overtly Christian (let alone Catholic) in a preacherly way. I have no problems with God, Heaven and Hell; I don't mind Christianity per se, I just want it in the background, not thrust down my throat.  Having said that, I loved Richard Kadrey's Sandman Slim stories, which are about Heaven and Hell, the Devil and God, but treated in a supernatural way. How much of a central pivot will knowledge of Catholicism be to the reader?

130 (edited by Norm d'Plume 2018-04-12 12:36:04)

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Well, there's the Pope, his Council of Cardinal Advisors, the Catholic orphanage, "perpetual adoration" in the orphanage chapel, a Mass at St. Peter's Basilica, rosary beads and prayer, a priest as one of the main POV characters, a lengthy trip through the Holy Land retracing the footsteps of Jesus, an exorcism chapter, several healings, dead cardinals and bishops, events from Revelation, the Vatican, visions of ancient events from the Bible, Satan, the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and Jesus Christ himself.

Pretty much a Catholic series, which was my intention from the outset. There is already a series of novels called Left Behind that tells the story of Revelation from a Protestant Dispensationalist POV (a literal interpretation). So many Christians think that's the Catholic POV, too, since there are no comparable Catholic novels.

The books are Connor's journey.

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

But, it won't require much knowledge of Christianity or Catholicism since I will be explaining those elements as they occur. Nevertheless, it's pretty much "in your face", unlike the Exorcist, where it was mostly a background element (although the book was more religious than the movie).

Too much? :-)

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

I'm looking forward to it. Nothing wrong with new learning, is there? I find myself entranced with books throwing new light on religions, no matter which religion. The ones I have problems with are ones that have characters with pious dialogue that is reflected in the text. It becomes unrelenting then. But if the story is non-Christian, even in a heavily Catholic environment, I think I would find interesting.

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Cool item. Islam has an Antichrist and foretells of the return of Jesus and the Mahdi (cue Dune music) during the Day of Judgement. The Mahdi will rid the world of evil. This will be great for book two, where the Unholy Trinity attacks all Abrahamic religions. Naturally, Judaism also has a Messiah at the end of days.

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

The patriarchal religions have very similar structures, don't they. I'm not so sure of Dao and Buddhism though...

135 (edited by Norm d'Plume 2018-04-13 13:04:49)

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

I am such a flake. Can't get used to Requiem for Heaven and Earth. The Lord of the Earth already exists on Amazon, but for a very different book. My title refers to the duel between Satan and Christ, who will fight for dominion over Earth. Also, in the Gospels, Jesus refers to Satan as the 'ruler of this world'. I may add Unholy back into the title as some point, although I like this simple title better. Reminds me of Tolkien.

136

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Even shorter: Lord of All

137 (edited by Norm d'Plume 2018-04-13 20:05:34)

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

You're killing me.

138

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Norm d'Plume wrote:

You're killing me.

Not until 403 chapter 30

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

You created a character for me who survives 30 chapters? You're getting soft. I'm looking forward to my demise.

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Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Don’t encourage him

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Kdot wrote:

I'm far from an expert in Catholicism, but I do believe they teach in rapture like we do (we all have different names for it) which implies "...Christ in the flesh..." is technically implausible.

You had me looking for an alternative to "in the flesh". Turns out, he's still flesh and bones, in spite of being transfigured and resurrected:

"Look at my hands and my feet; see that it is I myself. Touch me and see; for a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” (Luke 24:39)

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Norm d'Plume wrote:
Kdot wrote:

I'm far from an expert in Catholicism, but I do believe they teach in rapture like we do (we all have different names for it) which implies "...Christ in the flesh..." is technically implausible.

You had me looking for an alternative to "in the flesh". Turns out, he's still flesh and bones, in spite of being transfigured and resurrected:

"Look at my hands and my feet; see that it is I myself. Touch me and see; for a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” (Luke 24:39)

wasn't that the point of Doubting Thomas? That he wouldn't believe Christ was flesh until he put his hand into Christ's side, where the legionnaire had speared him?

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Yes. Thomas wanted physical proof, although one supposes Jesus could be physical without still being flesh, but that's splitting hairs. There are other verses that I found recently that suggest he is spirit. In 1 Peter 3:18 it says that Jesus was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:45 says the first man, Adam, became a living being and the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. The folks on my Catholic forum say he is both body and soul. I think the quote from Jesus in my previous post is the most reliable since it is very literal and comes directly from Him. The other statements can be dismissed as figurative/poetic.

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Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

1 Peter 3:18 (FR)  wrote:

Christ aussi a souffert une fois pour les péchés, lui juste pour des injustes, afin de nous amener à Dieu, ayant été mis à mort quant à la chair, mais ayant été rendu vivant quant à l'Esprit...

Note that Spirit is capitalized and might translate better into Holy Ghost (After checking this I went back and checked. It seems it's likely capitalized in English too). Like being "baptized in the spirit" kind of means "baptized in the name of the Holy Ghost".

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Norm d'Plume wrote:

Yes. Thomas wanted physical proof, although one supposes Jesus could be physical without still being flesh, but that's splitting hairs. There are other verses that I found recently that suggest he is spirit. In 1 Peter 3:18 it says that Jesus was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.

But Peter was writing after the Ascension, so by then Jesus would have only been spirit.

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

No, the Catholic forum states that Christ was taken up body and soul, which is how will return. Ditto for the prophet Elijah. If Christ had been taken up in spirit only, there would have been a dead body to bury, which wasn't the case.

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Note that Peter says He was put to death in the flesh. That means He should have shed his body at the time of death, which my quote from Jesus says is not the case.

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Norm d'Plume wrote:

No, the Catholic forum states that Christ was taken up body and soul, which is how will return. Ditto for the prophet Elijah. If Christ had been taken up in spirit only, there would have been a dead body to bury, which wasn't the case.

ah, I had always taken the Ascension to mean that he had been taken up body and soul, but his soul was the only bit that would return. But I was brought up CofE, and it is a LONG time ago since I went to Sunday School.

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

and the complexities of the Resurrection etc are the foundation stones of faith, aren't they? It doesn't matter if it follows logically or not, you just have to believe. If you don't, well, you aren't a believer, are you?

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Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

There's a huge structure of logic tying it all together.  It's called theology and has been the source of disagreement and even war.  Though the war usually resulted when someone wanted to throw it all away and start over from a 'simpler' base.  That same urge has 'informed' our politics for some decades now.