Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

Kdot wrote:

No major quibbles. Details don't override the pace. Of course you can thin / make precision-based finesse on future passes. But nothing felt brushed over - nothing screamed to me "missed opportunity".

Gosh what a kind review K, thank you very much. I'm trying not to overwrite any of these chapters, but I had to change the voice here or it wouldn't work.
Do you feel that it works as an early tempter for the other side of the world? It isn't planned to appear until the 2nd third of the book now, so should I add another tempter somewhere in between the chapters about Izzy's learning curve?

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

njc wrote:

I will read the replies at least once when the main reply is filled in and I'm informed that you've replied.  Feel free to reply in the forum if you prefer.

I find it easier to reply to questions inline as I don't have to keep flicking between tabs and copying stuff over. But there was no point in replying that way if you prefer not to go back on your reviews.

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Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

The point is that I need to know to look!  TNBW alerts me when you do the basic reply, so I look then.  If you add to it after thst, just let me know.

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

njc wrote:

The point is that I need to know to look!  TNBW alerts me when you do the basic reply, so I look then.  If you add to it after thst, just let me know.

Thanks nj, just responded to your inline on Air and Water. My inline reples are added at the same time as the basic reply, so if you see that you'll see them too. I like that we can keep a specific conversation going inline if we wish to, or as you say, we can just bring it here.  Thanks for all your comments about my appalling paragraph breaks. It's not something I'd applied myself to, so that is really useful.

Oh, and the 'had' problem. That is a harder one for me. I guess the only way out is NOT to combine flashback with current action. 

Everyone, what is your preferred way round the pp problem?

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Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

IIRC, in the case I called out, it wasn't so much a flashback as explanation after the fact.

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Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

Oh, topic shifts and flow are things I notice because I have to work hard on them too.

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

Well, I've been rewriting it all again, taking into account lots of the things you have pointed out NJ, got another run through then I'll overlay the lot for new readers. Up to you if you wish to cast a lazy eye over it again, I'll put the links here when it's ready.

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Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

Pick pick pick:-)

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

Lynne Clark wrote:

Oh, and the 'had' problem. That is a harder one for me.

Just rewrite them all using was/were. ;-)

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Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

Do you feel that it works as an early tempter for the other side of the world?

I didn't gather that's what  they meant... but I don't think I need to this early in the story - not without it dominating the chapter to the point of distraction. "The Edge" is enough for now that I get a feeling it's not a place anyone wants to be.

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

amy s wrote:

Pick pick pick:-)

I am a terrible picker. But the newest version I DO like better than the others. When will it stop???

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

Kdot wrote:

Do you feel that it works as an early tempter for the other side of the world?

I didn't gather that's what  they meant... but I don't think I need to this early in the story - not without it dominating the chapter to the point of distraction. "The Edge" is enough for now that I get a feeling it's not a place anyone wants to be.

That's great! It's an interesting place The Edge. I like working in there a lot, but it isn't actually seen until Book 2.

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

Norm d'Plume wrote:
Lynne Clark wrote:

Oh, and the 'had' problem. That is a harder one for me.

Just rewrite them all using was/were. ;-)

That leaves it in the current timestream though. I'm trying to move it all up in time so not so much is remembered. That will solve those pesky hads.

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Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

If your story is written in past tense, then past tense is the story's present amd past perfect is the story's past.  Switching to past progressive ('was going') does nothing.  Oh, and The Best Advice nowadays is to avoid the progressive aspect unless it's really, really needed, to make the text more compact and to make it feel a little more definite.

165 (edited by njc 2018-04-01 08:37:43)

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

On dialogue: moments ago I heard a radio advertisement in the form of a conversation about a dilemma and the product that solved it.  The dialogue had to introduce the people, the problem, the product, and every one of its claimed virtues, in encyclopedic detail.  It was loaded to breaking with modifiers; it ran every detour into detail; it bubbled and burbled with praise and delight.

It was a magnificent anti-exemplar of dialogue writing.

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

njc wrote:

On dialogue: moments ago I heard a radio advertisement in the form of a conversation about a dilemma and the product that solved it.  The dialogue had to introduce the people, the problem, the product, and every one of its claimed virtues, in encyclopedic detail.  It was loaded to breaking with modifiers; it ran every detour into detail; it bubbled and burbled with praise and delight.

It was a magnificent anti-exemplar of dialogue writing.

sounds like the theatrical maid on the telephone trope...

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

I've posted the rewrite just visible for here (and the Crucible another non-points group). Once we've pulled it apart, I'll put it together again and then post it over the points version. Currently, therefore, there are two versions in the wild... the one for you is https://www.thenextbigwriter.com/postin … rite-24460

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Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

Lynne Clark wrote:

It's an interesting place The Edge. I like working in there a lot, but it isn't actually seen until Book 2.

This one writer has a place called the [E a r t h w o u n d] that's a fascinating collision of energies that kinda creeps up on the reader. Basically you have this bad place. And the story doesn't get into exact details about how it got there. But the characters respect it, which makes it terrifying.

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

Kdot wrote:
Lynne Clark wrote:

It's an interesting place The Edge. I like working in there a lot, but it isn't actually seen until Book 2.

This one writer has a place called the [E a r t h w o u n d] that's a fascinating collision of energies that kinda creeps up on the reader. Basically you have this bad place. And the story doesn't get into exact details about how it got there. But the characters respect it, which makes it terrifying.

I think all good fantasy has at least one place that is outside the others. One place that is either bad or vicious or lacking in something. On The Edge of something.

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

Boring you all, I am sorry sad   I've used up my points (thank you all...) and updated the files with the last chapters of Part One. This is now retitled as Part One, and is complete insorfar as it won't be edited any further for plot or chapter order. Any reviews or notes here will be gratefully taken on board in case it gets rewritten yet again. and now its needs nitty gritty attention, I suppose. Starting on Part 2 when I've done my duty and reviewed some more of yours to get the points back up.

p.s. one of the interesting things about this site is that I now go over my post before I send it, in order to correct the punctuation.  And still get it wrong, no doubt sad

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

Picking your brains. Wondering how to up the otherworldliness of the story, that feels too pedestrian still.
Any thoughts? I wondered as a first-off whether to have tattoos appear on the arms of the girls, indicating the various Skills as they learn them?
The whole thing still feels too ... lame...

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Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

First thing I usually target is the environment.

Is there a second sun? > How does this affect time recording > ow does it affect sleep patterns?

or

Does the planet orbit within an asteroid belt? If so, meteor showers might be spectacular and frequent. They might even have a name ("oh here comes another dusting!"). If society is not sufficiently advanced, they may think the storms have deific origins.

Basically I adjust the environment in some significant way then work backwards to find out how the characters have adapted to it.

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

currently, it isn't so spacey as that, more fantasy than Sci-fi. So in the same way, GRRM or Robin Hobb don't have much outer space happenings, neither does this world.  So I need to make the differences more social, I guess, than environmental.

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Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

Oh, it need not be spacey to have inexplicable suns or an unusual atmosphere. I was starting at the cause and drilling down to effect. The effect is apparent in the story, but the cause can be glossed over. Here's another:

Planet has a highly elliptical orbit resulting in long, harsh winters. Effect: humans hibernate

Re: How to Breathe Underwater (trilogy: Lessons in Skills for Life)

that's nice. How much exposition would you give something like this?