Topic: Shadow Plotting and 3rd Person for Secondary Characters.

In my first book, the love story, I alternate between Jeb Hardwick's and Rhiannon's POV, but there is a 3rd character who originally I just hinted at.  As it currently stands, I don't go into her until 3 chapters before the end of the book.  John Hamler made a suggestion to interweave her into the story, and I have an alternative plotting where I do that.  I'm still not sure, though. 

IN CtN, I heavly shadow plotted Jeb Hardwick, and had his intersections with the plot observed by Rhiannon.  Should I stick with that, or bring in the shadow plot?  Here, I'm inclined to keep his story as a shadow plot, as the book is totally from Rhiannon's POV.

Any ideas about these weighty subjects?

Re: Shadow Plotting and 3rd Person for Secondary Characters.

I would suggest that if the character is there all along but doesn't become significant until near the end, then you might bring her into the story through some foreshadowing or even brief appearances if warranted by the occasion, but if she doesn't really do anything or is not part of any scene per se until her late arrival, then that would be the place to introduce her. Develop no character before her time so to speak. Just my opinion. Take care. Vern

3 (edited by E. Free 2017-01-23 22:09:52)

Re: Shadow Plotting and 3rd Person for Secondary Characters.

Personally, I love playing with PoV. It's one of my favorite things about writing. I'd probably write my novels from a dozen different PoV's if I didn't restrain myself. tongue In all seriousness, I have seen many an author throw in another character's PoV half-way through the story and it works, as long as their PoV is relevant and there was more than one PoV to begin with. For instance, if we go through a novel from Amy's PoV, then 3/4 of the way through, John's PoV comes in, that's a bit off-putting. The reader has experienced nothing but Amy until this point, so why change it? But, if we change things so we're in Amy's and Nick's PoV throughout the story, John's sudden intrusion doesn't seem so bad anymore.

As far as deciding what PoV to do per chapter, I have (quite recently) learned that it's best to go with whatever character has the most to lose. If Amy's mother is dying, it's probably not a good idea to do that scene from Nick's PoV. The reader gains nothing from seeing through his eyes. Oh, but wait! What if Nick is the one who killed Amy's mother? Now it could be worthwhile for readers to see through his eyes. Just depends on which character has the most invested into whatever scene you're writing.

One other thing. If this is a new character, it's best to reveal or hint at a connection between this character and the others that you've been writing about fairly early on. Then it's easy for the reader to care (if indirectly) about this new person that intruded on their perfectly good PoV.

Hope this helped. smile

4 (edited by Mariana Reuter 2017-01-24 00:10:39)

Re: Shadow Plotting and 3rd Person for Secondary Characters.

My only concern about writing using different POV's is the voice--I am myself  struggling with this issue in the novel I'm writing now. If the voices aren't different, then the value added is little. Okay, you gain something because, for example, you narrate a scene from the POV of the only character present. Hadn't you do it that way, the reader wouldn't have learnt about that particular scene. That said, the voices must be different lest the POV-character personality be lost. If the different POVs "sound" similar, the final taste is not that the story was narrated from the perspective of different characters, but that it's the same author "faking" the different characters. While that is actually the case, it must seem it's otherwise.

Kiss,

Gacela

Re: Shadow Plotting and 3rd Person for Secondary Characters.

Gacela:  That's a very definite concern.  I read a James Patterson book.  He used multiple 1st person POV's.  Each Chapter from a different character's point of view.  And each character was identical.

6 (edited by corra 2017-01-24 13:55:02)

Re: Shadow Plotting and 3rd Person for Secondary Characters.

E. Free wrote:

As far as deciding what PoV to do per chapter, I have (quite recently) learned that it's best to go with whatever character has the most to lose.

What about Nick Carroway in The Great Gatsby? If the story had been told through Jay Gatsby, we'd have a completely different story: access to his mind, his viewpoint, his goals. By choosing to tell the story through Nick, Fitzgerald adds a great deal of suspense.

I think it's important to consider what effect a POV character will have on the tale, rather than deciding that all stories (or particular scenes) must be told through the viewpoint of the one who has the most to lose. Think about who has the most to lose, sure. But consider how the scene might be either strengthened or weakened depending on who experiences it for the reader. Distance is not always a bad thing.

7 (edited by Dill Carver 2017-01-24 17:34:30)

Re: Shadow Plotting and 3rd Person for Secondary Characters.

corra wrote:
E. Free wrote:

As far as deciding what PoV to do per chapter, I have (quite recently) learned that it's best to go with whatever character has the most to lose.

What about Nick Carroway in The Great Gatsby?...

Or
Sydney Carton a Tale of Two Cities?

'to go with whatever character has the most to lose,' as a POV surely must dispel the suspense in some cases. In my opinion (and considering the best stories/novels that I've ever read)  the POV has to be applied to the story from the storytellers point of view.

I've read about writing for a decade; read so many books about writing that I can't remember most of them. What I've leaned is that there is so much bollocks written about writing; it's an industry of it's own.

The best books that I've ever read about writing are not about writing they are simply the best books that I've ever read.

Re: Shadow Plotting and 3rd Person for Secondary Characters.

Yeah, suspense and mystery is part of my consideration for having the 3rd character at the end of the story.  There were odd occurrences that made the characters stop and wonder, and the reader too.  Might end that too soon.  Right before the final chapter, it creates, presently, an 'ohhhh.' as well as "Who the heck is she?"  I might lose that if it's put through the story.

Re: Shadow Plotting and 3rd Person for Secondary Characters.

Dill Carver wrote:

The best books that I've ever read about writing are not about writing they are simply the best books that I've ever read.

True, and brilliantly said.  Do you mind if I insert the sentence break when I quote it?

Re: Shadow Plotting and 3rd Person for Secondary Characters.

vern wrote:

I would suggest that if the character is there all along but doesn't become significant until near the end, then you might bring her into the story through some foreshadowing or even brief appearances if warranted by the occasion, but if she doesn't really do anything or is not part of any scene per se until her late arrival, then that would be the place to introduce her. Develop no character before her time so to speak. Just my opinion. Take care. Vern

When it comes to this character, until there is a chapter where she plays a major role, that is all that is happening in regard to her--foreshadowing and brief appearances.  There are scenes that, after she is introduced, are altered in one's perception of them.  The true development of her character is in a later book in the series, and the way I'm envisaging it now, we will only know her in this book by a false name she gives herself.  Why I spoke of 'shadow plotting,' is she does quite a bit of off scene stuff, but until the first chapter where she "stars," so to speak (as viewed by a m/c's POV who has played a major role), it is only in brief cameos.  Puzzles for the reader.  That sort of thing.  Right now, I'm leaning toward taking the new chapters, making them into a revised, and elongated, set of chapters at the end that will create the puzzle that will then come back in the 2nd book. 

That decision alone makes me glad I asked this question.

Re: Shadow Plotting and 3rd Person for Secondary Characters.

njc wrote:
Dill Carver wrote:

The best books that I've ever read about writing are not about writing they are simply the best books that I've ever read.

True, and brilliantly said.  Do you mind if I insert the sentence break when I quote it?

Use the quote any way that you want to.
It is a simple truth. The answers are within what we read and admire. Learn from those  titles.

Learning from 'Writing for Dummies?' Well, as hip as that title is, the clue is within it.

Re: Shadow Plotting and 3rd Person for Secondary Characters.

Dill Carver wrote:

The best books that I've ever read about writing are not about writing they are simply the best books that I've ever read.

Agreed! I find it easier to consider why something doesn't work than why it does. It's often pretty obvious when it doesn't work: clumpy writing & such. When it does work, I find it's often because the author is so talented the strategy remains beneath the surface. For me, it takes a bit more digging to find it.

(I like what you say about "the storyteller's" point of view. Yes!)

13 (edited by Norm d'Plume 2017-01-31 20:48:28)

Re: Shadow Plotting and 3rd Person for Secondary Characters.

I had the exact same issue as rhiannon. I told the entire tale from the POV of my two MCs, Joseph and Apollo, alternating back and forth between them on a chapter-by-chapter basis. A secondary character, Caligula, was there as an antagonist. I decided to bring in his POV near the end when I needed the reader to think Apollo was dead. It's one of my favorite chapters in the whole book. I'm now rewriting to foreshadow his surprise role in that chapter.