submission to publisher of work on TNBW

I don't think money is the issue.  This is free-as-in-speech, not free-as-in-beer.

But membership in TNBW includes an agreement to respect copyright.  The key is that the work is available to members, but NOT to everyone on the web.  If it is available to everyone on the web, then it's been released publicly, not to a private, copyright-respecting group.

In that connection I have wondered how the optional designation of "available on the internet" for a published TNBW piece works. In a google search, does the piece show up, but in order to read one has become a TNBW member? I've never been able to google anything of mine, but I can't be sure of the keywords to use.

I'm not sure about selling access per chapter. That would definitely not by free. I do know that if I submit to the Faulkner competition, I take it down from this site. But Randall has had publishers tell him what their interpretation means. Why not ask the publisher your considering without naming the piece in particular.

Sol looked up the legalities and shaped the site accordingly.  Posting to a private writers' workshop is not considered to be published or freely available.  You are ok.  We all are.  In fact, a lot of publishers won't consider works from writers who don't have agents, unless they have workshopped their material.

It's too defensive to start by admitting the book exists (unsold) elsewhere, but what about an ebook you've put up on Amazon without an e-publisher - it is not that hard to do actually, but essentially pointless without marketing - the book is "freely available" without being free?  So, you've sold Amazon Kindle books only to your mother and five friends, that could hurt by demonstration of un-commercial value of the book -- but really only that nobody knows about it in order to have considered it for purchase. I can't see the requirement to have no such internet presence prior to publication, so long as there is no competing presence after it is published, unless it is to provide the publisher a loophole in its favor to dicker over royalties. Bringing this up in solicitation I guess is not a good thing to do.

Not published.  Workshopped.

And when you 'publish' the parts of the work to make it visibe, you must NOT publish 'to the whole web',  or you'll be exposing it ro non-members, which would make it available to anyone, without restriction (i.e. freely).

Others have investigated this, and found that things are visible.  Kdot made a particular study of it.

Yes, we have discussed this topic before. I was satisfied that posting on tnbw didn't come under the description of open publication, but recently a magazine (both print and online) to which I have contributed changed the wording of their submission requirement. They now require the work be
• original, so previously unpublished online or in print (so that includes authors’ websites and blogs)
This is a direct quote.
So I guess things are changing. Has anybody else noticed this?

Yeah, they mean in an online magazine, or your own website or blog where you submit your work to the world to read.  They would be cutting off their nosesto spite their faces if they excluded workshopped manuscripts.  My advice:  submit it.  If they don't publish it, it's moot.  If they do, and find out later, well, too late.  Called a fait accompli by our French friends.  Called, 'Hah!  What you gonna to do about it?' here in the US.  You're not supposed to do multiple submissions either, but my PhD thesis advisor did, and it helped him get tenure. Startegy *trumps* requirements (yes, pun intended).

Having been satisfied that TNBW does not present a problem, I have expanded the discussion to anything that may have been seen on the web -- ever -- except for short excerpts, perhaps, especially a truly self-published Kindle book.