1 (edited by njc 2016-04-20 19:52:17)

Topic: Grammar

I've been dinged a few times on a point, erroneously, on the capitalization of 'Mother' and 'Father', so I found this Wiktionary appendix entry, which covers the point.

Re: Grammar

If they are names, you can capitalize them.  If they are talking about mothers in general, you don't.   

Or at least that is what I remember from elementary school.

Re: Grammar

Tirz is right. It depends on the usage. An address of any sort is capped, otherwise not.

Re: Grammar

My publisher uncapitalized Mother in my Ronan manuscript. If that helps.

smile

Re: Grammar

The rule you state is just what Wiktionary gives.  Since we don't use our parent's first names, the words we use instead become proper nouns in their places.

Re: Grammar

Yes. Same with "Sister," "Brother," Aunt," et al.

Re: Grammar

Linda Lee wrote:

Tirz is right. It depends on the usage. An address of any sort is capped, otherwise not.

But not just direct address.  If I say 'I gave Dad a new saw for his birthday.' it's capitalized because 'Dad' is used as his name.  But if I wrote 'I gave my dad ...' it would not be.

Re: Grammar

If mother, father, or any other address is preceded by a possessive noun or pronoun, DO NOT capitalize. My mother, your dad, his uncle Joe, etc.

Re: Grammar

njc wrote:
Linda Lee wrote:

Tirz is right. It depends on the usage. An address of any sort is capped, otherwise not.

But not just direct address.  If I say 'I gave Dad a new saw for his birthday.' it's capitalized because 'Dad' is used as his name.  But if I wrote 'I gave my dad ...' it would not be.

Exactly!

10

Re: Grammar

... because the otherwise common noun is standing in the role of a proper noun.  Consider it a brevet promotion.

11 (edited by j p lundstrom 2016-04-21 00:28:19)

Re: Grammar

njc wrote:

I've been dinged a few times on a point, erroneously, on the capitalization of 'Mother' and 'Father', so I found this Wiktionary appendix entry, which covers the point.

It looks to me like njc was telling us he knows the rules, so would the folks who are messing with him please refer to the website he gave. Too bad the only folks who care enough to read about grammar are the ones who already paid attention in grammar school, as Tirz says. It was worth a shot, though.
When you get real disgusted, please write a sad country western song and post it in the Mama, Trains and Pickup Trucks group. (See how I capitalized?) We haven't had much action there lately.
Keep up the good work.

12 (edited by njc 2016-04-21 01:33:21)

Re: Grammar

Actually, I didn't learn that rule in school.  I did learn to respect and appreciate grammar and punctuation, and anyone who's been a victim of one of my reviews can tell you I use the knowledge freely.

Oh Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be commas ...

Re: Grammar

njc wrote:

Actually, I didn't learn that rule in school.  I did learn to respect and appreciate grammar and punctuation, and anyone who's been a victim of one of my reviews can tell you I use the knowledge freely.

Oh Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be commas ...

It's easy enough to remember as child learning the English language that 'your ma' is not capitalized but plain 'Ma' is. The stated rule is a complicated generalization not so easily remembered.

Suppose a father's name is 'Patroclus,' would his son call him 'his Pa' or 'his pa'?   Salvatore "Sal" Mineo's wife might have called him 'her Sal', right? So Pa's son's father is 'his Pa' to him. Therefore, the rule is wrong, and the son's pa, Pa, and his son are right.

14

Re: Grammar

In the case stated, 'Pa' as a diminutive of 'Patrocles', it is a separate word and a proper noun, a homonym (and likely homophone) of 'pa'.  If the rules of that family would allow the son of James to address James as Jim, then you are right.  But if it does not, then 'my pa' uses the common noun, not its special-case homonym, even if they are also homophones.

Re: Grammar

njc wrote:

In the case stated, 'Pa' as a diminutive of 'Patrocles', it is a separate word and a proper noun, a homonym (and likely homophone) of 'pa'.  If the rules of that family would allow the son of James to address James as Jim, then you are right.  But if it does not, then 'my pa' uses the common noun, not its special-case homonym, even if they are also homophones.

Perhaps from the author's omniscient POV, but in those inline reviews for which the reader-reviewer does not read the whole story first to survey the story but digs right in to catch five grammatical mistakes -- I know this never happens, but suppose it might -- he will see "Your Pa has been kidnapped." and nails that bad author. Even from your acceptance of 'Pa' here as a proper noun, how can it be so easily spotted as such from "Your Pa has been kidnapped."? Suppose the author never explains overtly that 'Patroclus'  is a honorific in that long form the character (referent to 'your') never uses, but he always uses 'Pa' , like Sal Mineo's wife never used 'Salvatore', while at the same time 'Pa' is his father thereby being the homophone you suggest. Is such a fantasy of unexplained mystery too cruel to the reader?

16

Re: Grammar

If the homonym confusion (it needn't be a homophone) occurs in the first instance of the diminutive of the proper noun, then the reviewer might be pardoned the error.  If subsequent text reveals the reviewers error, the reviewer ought to go back and correct the error.  If there is nothing to indicate the correction, then the writer will have to explain in comments, and perhaps suggest a chapter to read to verify the usage.

It's an imperfect world.  Overcoming the imperfections is up to us.