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Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

Funny thing is, 'ornery' is derived from 'ordinary'.  America must have been a MYOB nation of or'nery people who wanted to do without their neighbors most of the time.  (See =The Convivial Codfish=, by Charlotte Macleod.)

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Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

You are anything but ordinary. I'm taking that one to the bank.

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

I'm somewhere in the middle. Whether it is grammar or spelling it doesn't matter, my point is to not to overdo it to the point that it is grating or become the focus (because the reader is more trying to figure out what is being said than reading). Basically, anything will be okay, but keep it subtle.

Also, just mentioning she has an accent is also okay. It's tricky though to keep reminding readers of her accent though without also becoming overbearing. But it's also an option in addition to using different grammar or spelling.

At the end of the day, this is what makes writing so hard sometimes - there's a million different ways to do something and choosing the best way isn't all that straightforward. For me, I'm always double-guessing whether I'm doing the right thing and wondering whether X instead of Y won't work better. Both works, but I guess this is where some books become award winners and receive widespread acclaim and others don't. I try not to stress too much about it as I just want my stories to be read. It's not so much about awards and acclaim. Others' mileage may vary.

All that said, what you've been doing so far works for me Rebecca. You already have a very distinct (historical) voice. I don't think it can be improved because it's already that good. But don't let me limit you. I have a lot of confidence in your ability to make anything work (even better despite what I think)!

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

njc wrote:

The grammar is harder for me to read through than the spelling.  Since Drech (presumably) has little difficulty, we should have little difficulty, so stay in his perspective.
IMO.
YMMV.

Ah, I see what you mean!

I suppose Drech may have no difficulty understanding her as he has know her for a while by this time. (I do mention a few times in the narration that Drech has to strain to understand the Eire because they speak differently.) But readers should be able to understand without getting frustrated.

Interestingly, I actually made a few errors that I think made it easier to understand. Haha!

I think I shall have to figure out something else less intrusive to do with Queen Muiredach.

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

amy s wrote:

I disagree. Rebecca is so immersed in the actual facts of this time period. This part feels real to me. The Queen's speech isn't stilted. The 'slaze' makes sense and is in context with Drech's story. I like it a lot.

Only sentence I had a problem with was, "Worse, his mother before a slaze." 

She is talking about herself, isn't she? I would clarify this. Otherwise, this reads as if she is speaking of a different person.

Thanks, Amy!

I wish more people felt I got the facts right! I would spend a lot less time on the internet! Haha!

I'm sad now: "To make matters worse, his mother was a slaze." was actually my favorite line in the whole chapter! (Maybe because she is sympathizing with the potential struggles of her unborn child by looking at the problem threw that child's eyes.) But it seems I am alone in that like. Sigh. I'm changing it.

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Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

No, not alone.

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

AJ Reid wrote:

I'm somewhere in the middle. Whether it is grammar or spelling it doesn't matter, my point is to not to overdo it to the point that it is grating or become the focus (because the reader is more trying to figure out what is being said than reading). Basically, anything will be okay, but keep it subtle.

Also, just mentioning she has an accent is also okay. It's tricky though to keep reminding readers of her accent though without also becoming overbearing. But it's also an option in addition to using different grammar or spelling.

At the end of the day, this is what makes writing so hard sometimes - there's a million different ways to do something and choosing the best way isn't all that straightforward. For me, I'm always double-guessing whether I'm doing the right thing and wondering whether X instead of Y won't work better. Both works, but I guess this is where some books become award winners and receive widespread acclaim and others don't. I try not to stress too much about it as I just want my stories to be read. It's not so much about awards and acclaim. Others' mileage may vary.

All that said, what you've been doing so far works for me Rebecca. You already have a very distinct (historical) voice. I don't think it can be improved because it's already that good. But don't let me limit you. I have a lot of confidence in your ability to make anything work (even better despite what I think)!

I think I'll have to go more with the mentioning an accent thing and less with writing it out. I don't want readers thinking Queen Muiredach is stupid or get frustrated trying to understand what she is saying. And I'm now concerned that I will make errors that no one can correct because they aren't sure what I am trying to say. sad

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

njc wrote:

No, not alone.

Aw. Thanks!

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Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

Rebecca Vaughn wrote:

I'm sad now: "To make matters worse, his mother was a slaze." was actually my favorite line in the whole chapter! (Maybe because she is sympathizing with the potential struggles of her unborn child by looking at the problem threw that child's eyes.) But it seems I am alone in that like. Sigh. I'm changing it.

You might try making the grammar a little simpler or more naive.  'To make matters worse' is the phrasing of a native speaker.  A small tweak might suggest less facility with the language without spoiling the sentence for author or reader.

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

What Amy was saying was too hard was the altered way

Worse his mother before a slaze

But this is another error of mine.

It should be:

Worse, he mother before slaze

Which actually makes no sense. sad

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Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

Simplify the grammar logic.  Stay with the English of the reader, but be a little clumsy with it.  'It is worse, that his mother was a slave', or 'What is worse, that his mother was a slave.'  If you can mirror the Pictish grammar it will be a bonus, but few readers will know you've done that--or not.

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Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

As to the General and the dinkies, the word 'washtubs' just occurred to me.  Bigger than buckets.

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

Rebecca Vaughn wrote:

What Amy was saying was too hard was the altered way

Worse his mother before a slaze

But this is another error of mine.

It should be:

Worse, he mother before slaze

Which actually makes no sense. sad

I agree with Amy here. And with you too - if I read this in dialogue, I won't correct it, because I'd assume you know what you want to do with it.

And also, I have never doubted the authenticity of your writing. It's clear as daylight that you have done tons of research! Combined with your 'voice', it's a masterpiece. There, I said it. It is.

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

njc wrote:

Simplify the grammar logic.  Stay with the English of the reader, but be a little clumsy with it.  'It is worse, that his mother was a slave', or 'What is worse, that his mother was a slave.'  If you can mirror the Pictish grammar it will be a bonus, but few readers will know you've done that--or not.

Ok, I'll play around with it. smile

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

I've decided to change names for both Drech and Orson. Drech has to go because people will say "Dreck" which is gross, and "Orson has to go because it is really way too modern for the time period

For Drech, I was thinking:
Draig
or
Draich

For Orson, I was thinking:
Orsus
or
Orsius

Thoughts?

191 (edited by njc 2016-10-07 21:15:37)

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

Draigh?
I'm not sure you need to change Orson.  Maybe change the second vowel, or double the 'n'?

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Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

Dryden?

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

Rebecca Vaughn wrote:

I've decided to change names for both Drech and Orson. Drech has to go because people will say "Dreck" which is gross, and "Orson has to go because it is really way too modern for the time period

For Drech, I was thinking:
Draig
or
Draich

For Orson, I was thinking:
Orsus
or
Orsius

Thoughts?

Draich.
Orsius.

That's my favourites!

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Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

Haven't you already published some of your books?

I also prefer Draich (which I would mentally pronounce like Drake)

Orsius...dunno. I see it and mentally switch the letters into Osirus for familiarity and ease of remembering.

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

njc wrote:

Draigh?
I'm not sure you need to change Orson.  Maybe change the second vowel, or double the 'n'?

Not sure.
"Draigh" looks too Anglicized (Germanized?) to me (like my name last name "Vaughn") strangely so does "Orsonn" (although there are double "n"s used in Brithonic).

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

Kdot wrote:

Dryden?

Looks like another variation of "Tristan"
No?

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

Janet (AJ) Reid wrote:

Draich.
Orsius.

That's my favorites!

Ok! One for Daich and one for Orsius

198 (edited by njc 2016-10-10 22:45:05)

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

Rebecca Vaughn wrote:
njc wrote:

Draigh?
I'm not sure you need to change Orson.  Maybe change the second vowel, or double the 'n'?

Not sure.
"Draigh" looks too Anglicized (Germanized?) to me (like my name last name "Vaughn") strangely so does "Orsonn" (although there are double "n"s used in Brithonic).

Then I vote for Draich and Orsius.  (I take it the latter name is to be of Latin origin?)

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

amy s wrote:

Haven't you already published some of your books?

Yes, I published and am now trying to republish "The Beast of Caer Baddan". It is about Owain Finddu.

amy s wrote:

I also prefer Draich (which I would mentally pronounce like Drake)

Yes! That's another point for Draich!

amy s wrote:

Orsius...dunno. I see it and mentally switch the letters into Osirus for familiarity and ease of remembering.

Uh oh. Hmmmmmmmmm. Maybe I should scratch "Orsius" off the list...

Re: Titles in The Pendragon and The Beast of Caer Baddan

njc wrote:
Rebecca Vaughn wrote:
njc wrote:

Draigh?
I'm not sure you need to change Orson.  Maybe change the second vowel, or double the 'n'?

Not sure.
"Draigh" looks too Anglicized (Germanized?) to me (like my name last name "Vaughn") strangely so does "Orsonn" (although there are double "n"s used in Brithonic).

Then I vote for Draich and Orsius.  (I take it the latter name is to be of Latin origin?)

Ok!

Yes! They are Latin! Orson, Orsius, and Orsus all mean "bear" (Maybe "bear king"?)