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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Okay, I've got a little essay-review up on your last changes.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I suggest you reduce the direct action with Alina and hold her presence for later.  Use narrative--telling--not showing, to propel us through the politics and the backstory/milieu and get us to the story.

There might be room for brief description of Alina's haughty and cruel/icy demeanor, but not for full narrative--not if you want the containment jar to flow smoothly as a connected, supporting part of the story.  Remember, this whole chapter's purpose is to get Anver and Kat--together--through that hole in the roof with the necessary backstory and milieu.  It's an extended intro.  If you keep extending it like a telescope, the whole containment jar episode goes out of proportion.


If you want to show that Alina is the Olympic Gold Medalist in seven events of Beyotch, make the narrated story show us the Wicked Stepmother's Wicked Stepmother--quickly--then show us she's worse than that in a later chapter.  (I rather like the part about enjoying killing.)

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

A further thought on Alina: you have a problem with people mistaking her for The Real Villian.  If you want to fix that, you need Less Alina, not more.  When she appears, however often, it must be as Speed Bump Alina.  She may be a Speed Bump that can bottom springs, blow shocks, and bend frames, but a Speed Bump she must be and must remain.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Followup: Alina is venal and selfish. She likes power, but her vision and ambition are too small to be Capital EEvil.  Make that clear.  Keep that clear.

Question: What -specifically- moves Alina to challenge the duel?

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

She's petty. She doesn't like Anver. She really doesn't like Kha. Kha insulted her sexuality by asking if she was still pissed about him refusing to sleep with her. She hasn't killed anyone since Andalaya. She's jonesing for a good duel. She gets a bigger rush by killing mages than she does by killing innocents.

That's about it.

She's killed for less.


Oh, I came up with the purpose of the Sandtrap/Sandfall. Just have to figure out the magic, but then it is going to be AWESOME. I gotta write this out…

And read your new chapter, of course :-)

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

OK, NJC,
That was me who confused Alina with the main mean dude, and let me say this about that... I am not a crook! Now that I have read your ideas for a fix-up, I concur with you 100%. In fact, I wish I said what you said it's so good. The Alina thing as is, is a big digression down the wrong path, and it was misleading to me to the point of being disappointed when nothing happened with her. She is an interesting character, and I too like the final battle. But as it is said, editing is like killing your own children. It's time to pull from retirement your hammer and tongs, Amy.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Point taken. Alina is now a speed-bump. I'll see if I can navigate that role successfully. Not sure for now, but there is always the good ol' college try.

Oh, there are two new chapters up. I had a flurry of energy. And some free time.

And I joined Tumblr. Eh, it's only another Facebook. I figure that there is enough material about autism for me to talk about.

Tomorrow, it is back to the coal mines. Pray for me.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I think one of the reasons that people take Alina as The Big Bad is that they want to latch onto a villain and she is the first visible one.  I think mentioning her in just the right place and time might help people get over that.  Maybe getting a prominent agreement to the that effect, perhaps repeating the discussion with Katerin and without her could help maintain context.

A protest by Kha in the 'I challenge you' meeting to the effect of 'this is bigger than you, you petty cow!' might also help, especially if Alina brushes it off.

The pacing of the main story is also a problem.  There are just too many long stages.  I realize you have clews buried in some of them, but you have nine unrelieved chapters.  If, by one of Sil's runes, you could get it below six chapters the difference would be huge.

1,159 (edited by Norm d'Plume 2016-01-25 01:41:46)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Are you still thinking of splitting Acts into two? If Alina is to be just a speed bump in Acts, it would be nice for her to still have some ties to the overarching mystery of Acts, rather than just the resident bitch. I came away with the impression that her character arch ran in parallel to the real story, which is why I didn't care when she died. Kind of like Emperor Augustus. He's meh in my story. Not sufficiently well set up to care when he dies.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

That is my debate about this discussion. I'm planning on two books for Anver. If I make Alina a speed bump, then the first book loses power. I see it as Alina is the 'little bad'. A few necromancer moments happen and she is blamed. Then the duel happens and something else happens, so they realize there is a medium bad guy lurking in the shadows.

Book two, they find out about Lucas after a longer search, and solidify their target. Then they follow Maalok into the crypt,

Does this keep Alina on the back burner? Or do I still need to dance around Alina to make her less of a character?

1,161 (edited by Norm d'Plume 2016-01-25 03:46:44)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I think you should build her up as the obvious baddie to the first story, where the duel is the climax to the story arch. The trick is how to tie her into the bigger story in a meaningful way. Include mystery and sleuthing about something BIG going on, preferably with Alina as the presumed focal point. When she dies, it serves as the trigger to smoke out the real villain in part two.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Alina is a focus in the second book. Her inherited property and the massive cleanup as her sins are put out to air, that is what keeps Alina in the story as a parallel threadline. She is a hoarder. Her belongings hold clues that Anver needs.

With Katerin cooperating, Anver can learn more to help him later in the stories. I just didn't put it in the first draft because there wasn't enough space. With two books, there is room for the detail.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

The problem is that Alina's introduction isn't that of a Big Bad.  It's the introduction of a Very Big Little Person, who can make life hell--or death--for the good guys.

Two books may have room for the detail, but how do you keep the story moving?

I need to take a closer look at Ch's 6, 7, and 8.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

It could be realistic for me to graph out the chapters before the next revision (gasp). Really. That way, I could prove the action curve to you. It would also keep my reply from taking another year before it appears.

I've finally finished the first draft, so my plan was to approach the next draft with a less bumbling approach. What exists is just character driven. Number 2 draft can be an organizer-draft where plot and focus determine where things go.

Don't get me wrong. I see where you and Ernie are pointing. I agree that Alina is a weakness in the current version. I just think her stuff and property becomes a valid character in later stories.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

She's only a weakness if the reader looks for her to fill the wrong role.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I wouldn't go all Sally Field yet.  It flows reasonably well, but I want to see how the next chapter opens before I complete my comments.

1,167 (edited by njc 2016-01-25 20:36:48)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Was it you who was telling me that I kept ending a chapter on a tension note/hook and that I needed to have a few rest-chapters in between to keep it from looking like a formula? If not, then do you agree with the above statement or think I should continue to move action to the beginning of the chapters whenever possible?

In this case, you also have a natural scene break that provides a good chapter break.

Not every chapter needs to start on a cliffhanger.  But (for example) Jaylene's drop through the Sandfall (revealed as a trap) opens a whole new and unexpected topic.  By putting Tazar's trip first, you set an expectation that you break at the start of the next chapter--and the chapter break signals the reader that something different is coming.

In the Asking the Right Questions chapter, you end on a big question.  But the next chapter Erasing the Runes opens on preliminaries related to the questions, while the chapter as a whole is an action chapter.  The effect may be increased by the lack of a scene break after the "gritted his teeth" line.

If you move the preliminaries to the end of Asking the Right Questions you can move the questions down, pulling the issues back from Anver/Kat to the Jar.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Jaylene already was killed, remember?

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

K. wrote:

Indeed... the loss of power to the group is somewhere on the scale between Deanna Troi and a Red-shirt.

What would STTNG be without her watery eyes and heaving breasts? It's the closest Star Trek ever came to porn, unless you count Klingon mating rituals.

1,170 (edited by Elisheva Free 2016-01-26 01:24:39)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Norm d'Plume wrote:
K. wrote:

Indeed... the loss of power to the group is somewhere on the scale between Deanna Troi and a Red-shirt.

What would STTNG be without her watery eyes and heaving breasts? It's the closest Star Trek ever came to porn, unless you count Klingon mating rituals.

As far as Star Trek goes, you can't forget Seven of Nine. wink

-Elisheva

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Or 10 out of  10. Yeah, that rack kept the series alive for a good 5 seasons.

1,172 (edited by njc 2016-02-04 11:48:14)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Amy, as I move toward the Andalaya chapters, I find myself thinking that the topic's introduction feels like an interruption.  I'm wondering whether you could mention and hint at Andalaya and her sister earlier.  For example, mention her--and maybe Alina, maybe not--when you are in the curses ward with Kha.  (Anver's relationship to the curses ward?)  Then mention Andalaya and Alina again between Anver's exploration of Alina's house and the actual trip onto the roof, letting us know that Anver would really, really like to hurt Alina or make it possible for Kha to do so.  Then instead of an interruption you have an answer.

YMMV.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Maybe have Anver lead them past Anda's room or wing, thinking he shouldn't have done that?

Anyhow, I think there's some narrative principle here, the inverse of Chekov's gun maybe?

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Point taken. Andalaya was an afterthought that I came up with on the fly. She definitely needs more intro.

New chapter is up for Dictates. Gotta blaze. I work tonight and there is a 'meeting'. Worse case scenario is that I continue working and everyone else leaves. We'll see how it goes.

A

1,175 (edited by njc 2016-02-04 17:51:28)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I'm not sure that 'working' quite covers that contingency.

I've read the chapter.  Gotta let it digest a bit before we go on.  I speak Tazar -- Brilliant.  The part about how the Wolves work ... I've got to think through how that group adapts.  All of this is delaying the destruction of that Horcr##ror.  (Hmm.  Whattif the Gillis reacts to the Horror?  Would that fit the story?)

It's not that Andalaya-the-person needs more intro, but that her story thread needs to be rooted somewhere.  Telling us in the saving-Kha episode that Anda is Alina's victim, and then telling us that Alina is making a move on the school will build Alina as the villian you need and give Anver a wholesome reason to hate her.  And not just Anver, but everyone involved in Andalaya's care.