Topic: Bonus Points

The Endurance Points thread got me thinking.

Would anyone support author give Bonus Points.

I mean some people like grammar and spelling reviews while others ask more for "does the story work" kind of reviews. Many times the type of review requested is in the details section but I often see the request ignored (yes, I read other peoples reviews of your work...I'd like to be a better reviewer smile).

So, say you get a review that was exactly what you were looking for in a review then you could opt to give bonus points.

Maybe it could be something like 25% of the total value of points given for that review.

Thoughts?

Quote Post 1

Re: Bonus Points

That's mentioned as a poosible addition/alternative in the endurance points thread. I think it's great idea. I think it would have to come out of your own points, though, otherwise it becomes like a ratings system, which didn't work on the old site. Everyone got top ratings so the author wouldn't offend anyone. If the points don't come from you, then authors will be inclined to give them to everyone. I would gladly pay my own points for excellent reviews.

Quote Post 2

Re: Bonus Points

Adrian Lankford wrote:

The Endurance Points thread got me thinking.

Would anyone support author give Bonus Points... Thoughts?


I just posted this on the Endurance Points thread. Since it's relevant to your suggestion, I'm adding it here, as well.


"...Let's say I have 1000+ points in my account. I can afford to pay reviewers. But, poor John Doe, who just joined the site, doesn't have two points to rub together. He couldn't pay for reviewers, so he's screwed out of those reviewers who won't get extra bonus points for reviewing his stuff. They will come to me, instead..."



So, that would be the inherent problem with author given Bonus Points.

Quote Post 3

Re: Bonus Points

How about an adjustment to the computations.  I posted a poem last night over 7 points.  I read a chapter in line review for 1.6 points.  I think the base of the problem is in the calculations.  Not to be whiny but just sayin.  Mike

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Re: Bonus Points

Norm, I like your idea better. That would make more sense.

JL, since it would be optional the author could go back and do it at any time...even like a month down the road when they've had more time to do reviews.

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Re: Bonus Points

Mike Roberson wrote:

How about an adjustment to the computations.  I posted a poem last night over 7 points.  I read a chapter in line review for 1.6 points.  I think the base of the problem is in the calculations.  Not to be whiny but just sayin.  Mike

Mike, unless it was a 2000+ word poem, something doesn't seem right. That's the points I need to post chapters of 2300 words! I'd suggest ask Sol if something's up?

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Re: Bonus Points

Mike Roberson wrote:

How about an adjustment to the computations.  I posted a poem last night over 7 points.  I read a chapter in line review for 1.6 points.  I think the base of the problem is in the calculations.  Not to be whiny but just sayin.  Mike



yikes WTH? Seven (7) points?

Quote Post 7

Re: Bonus Points

I agree with Janet and JL, Mike. I posted a 2338-word chapter and it cost be 7.4 points. Something is out of whack somewhere.

~Tom

Quote Post 8

9 Reply by Janet Taylor-Perry (edited by Janet Taylor-Perry 2015-07-10 20:39:53)

Re: Bonus Points

Absolutely, Tom, et. al. I don't remember short chapters taking so many points before, usually 3-4. Longer chapters, yes. And it's a chore to read some chapters that need a great deal of editing and you only get 1.5 points or something. Endurance? I stay with a work no matter how poorly written. It's the teacher in me. But sometimes I'll skip it and do another that requires less work on my part and come back to one that requires more effort when I have time.

Quote Post 9

Re: Bonus Points

If I recall correctly from one time Sol addressed exactly that same situation in the old site, publishing a poem costs way more than posting a novel's chapter /short story because of the by-design short amount of words in a poem. 

In this world, there are several very well guarded secrets: the Coca-Cola formula, Col. Sanders KFC recipe, and the way in which Sol awards points in TNBW. I don't think you'll ever get to know the calculation process.

Kiss,

Gacela.

Quote Post 10

11 Reply by Norm d'Plume (edited by Norm d'Plume 2015-07-10 20:31:40)

Re: Bonus Points

JL Mo wrote:
Adrian Lankford wrote:

The Endurance Points thread got me thinking.

Would anyone support author give Bonus Points... Thoughts?


I just posted this on the Endurance Points thread. Since it's relevant to your suggestion, I'm adding it here, as well.


"...Let's say I have 1000+ points in my account. I can afford to pay reviewers. But, poor John Doe, who just joined the site, doesn't have two points to rub together. He couldn't pay for reviewers, so he's screwed out of those reviewers who won't get extra bonus points for reviewing his stuff. They will come to me, instead..."



So, that would be the inherent problem with author given Bonus Points.

When I came onboard, I got a few courtesy reviews from people that I quickly realized could really help me improve my writing. I knew they were "in demand" so I applied myself, learned how to do good reviews, and read more of their work than they did mine, out of fairness. The problem with that was I finish their book long before they finish mine and, if I'm not interested in their next book, I either have to force myself to keep reading them, or risk losing them altogether, which is a virtual certainty if you don't recip. In that event, I'd rather read stuff I'm interested in and use the "money" to reward a great reviewer for continuing to read my stuff. If a new person doesn't have two points to rub together, then they need to read more so they can eventually afford the best reviewers. In real life, if I can't afford a great editor, I can either use one that is run-of-the-mill, or I can work more to earn money to get the very best.

Quote Post 11

Re: Bonus Points

Mariana Reuter wrote:

If I recall correctly from one time Sol addressed exactly that same situation in the old site, publishing a poem costs way more than posting a novel's chapter /short story because of the by-design short amount of words in a poem. 

In this world, there are several very well guarded secrets: the Coca-Cola formula, Col. Sanders KFC recipe, and the way in which Sol awards points in TNBW. I don't think you'll ever get to know the calculation process.

Kiss,

Gacela.

This is very interesting.  I don't post my poems and songs to garner reviews necessarily.  I also don't heavily review others songs and poems.  They are more for entertainment and sharing of humor ant idea's.  Let's face it none of us will ever get rich writing poetry and probably never get a song published.  I will think twice before using my points just to show off my songs to feed my ego if it's going to cost that many points.  I would rather use those points for good reviews of my novel.  Mike

Quote Post 12

Re: Bonus Points

Poems vs novels/short story points: This has been bandied about many times and I doubt Sol is going to change it this time either. The problem is you're comparing apples to oranges as far as points are calculated. But if you review and write only poetry, your ratio of points to publish over points received to review will be almost exactly what you receive to publish and review novels or short stories. Do the math and you will see. How the points are calculated exactly on a per word basis doesn't really matter, it is set up and Sol has explained it before, to keep a more balanced activity between the two different worlds. Think of it as a currency exchange; if you earn money in one country, it is not going to be worth the same amount in another country. So too, on this site, if you earn points in poetry and try to spend them in novels or vice versa, the rate exchange is not going to be the same no matter how much one thinks it unfair. Take care. Vern

Quote Post 13

14 Reply by j p lundstrom (edited by j p lundstrom 2015-07-11 01:08:27)

Re: Bonus Points

Vern, are you saying that it costs more to post a poem than prose? and that the reason is to keep a balanced activity? and you are comparing that to artificial stabilization of currency? If I post a poem and label it "Short story," does that circumvent the artificially elevated rates? If, as I have seen, one posts a deconstructed poem (presented in prose form) and calls it "short story," will that cheat the system? And if we can cheat the system, was there ever any real reason to impose such a system?

And finally, should I get the status of Mama, Trains and Pickup Trucks changed to no points? It was meant to provide a source of amusement, not rip off hard-working writers who just want to take a little break and have fun.

Quote Post 14

Re: Bonus Points

j p lundstrom wrote:

Vern, are you saying that it costs more to post a poem than prose? and that the reason is to keep a balanced activity? and you are comparing that to artificial stabilization of currency? If I post a poem and label it "Short story," does that circumvent the artificially elevated rates? If, as I have seen, one posts a deconstructed poem (presented in prose form) and calls it "short story," will that cheat the system? And if we can cheat the system, was there ever any real reason to impose such a system?

And finally, should I get the status of Mama, Trains and Pickup Trucks changed to no points? It was meant to provide a source of amusement, not rip off hard-working writers who just want to take a little break and have fun.

Yes, if you post a poem as a short story or novel chapter, then you will "cheat" the system; assuming you are talking about a short poem and not an epic poem, then the very few words would require a fraction of the cost to post those same words as a poem.

You can cheat any system as you should be aware with all the hacking going on in the news. Why impose such a system in the first place is a rather meaningless question unless you think that everything must be done the same way. We write our stories the way we see fit, Sol makes his rules according to what he envisions. We don't all do things the same way; the most we can hope for is to be like Frank and at the end of the day, we can say, "I did it my way." Take care. Vern

Quote Post 15

Re: Bonus Points

vern wrote:
j p lundstrom wrote:

Vern, are you saying that it costs more to post a poem than prose? and that the reason is to keep a balanced activity? and you are comparing that to artificial stabilization of currency? If I post a poem and label it "Short story," does that circumvent the artificially elevated rates? If, as I have seen, one posts a deconstructed poem (presented in prose form) and calls it "short story," will that cheat the system? And if we can cheat the system, was there ever any real reason to impose such a system?

And finally, should I get the status of Mama, Trains and Pickup Trucks changed to no points? It was meant to provide a source of amusement, not rip off hard-working writers who just want to take a little break and have fun.

Yes, if you post a poem as a short story or novel chapter, then you will "cheat" the system; assuming you are talking about a short poem and not an epic poem, then the very few words would require a fraction of the cost to post those same words as a poem.

You can cheat any system as you should be aware with all the hacking going on in the news. Why impose such a system in the first place is a rather meaningless question unless you think that everything must be done the same way. We write our stories the way we see fit, Sol makes his rules according to what he envisions. We don't all do things the same way; the most we can hope for is to be like Frank and at the end of the day, we can say, "I did it my way." Take care. Vern

Yes, that would circumvent the mega points used to post poetry, which according to Sol was b/c it takes a lot more ability to interpret and analyze a poem. (I asked once, many moons ago.) However, you only get like half a point for reviewing a poem. Likewise, if you publish it as a short story of very few words, the reviewer will only get half a point for reviewing. Just take a look at how few points you get for the Drabbles.

Now, understand. I don't review just for points, but I would like to be rewarded when it takes a lot of effort and time for a piece. If it takes 7 points for a poem, the review reward should be comparable.

Quote Post 16

17 Reply by max keanu (edited by max keanu 2015-07-11 04:55:04)

Re: Bonus Points

Site needs micro points. Hundredths of a point should be awarded for a funny, insightful, philosophical, writerly, grammatical insight, ETC. For comments form all writers... these micro points can be awarded in the forums and in to written/posted works. Why shouldn't a fine piece of writing or forum post be rewarded?

I'd love to write the code for this application...lol, think of the juicy math involved!

Go to Scribophile to see what I am writing about here.

And, Sol, can you somehow place the amount of points accumulated on EVERY page? I'm tired of clicking to find where I'm at, how long till I can post. THANKS

Quote Post 17

Re: Bonus Points

J T-P wrote:  If it takes 7 points for a poem, the review reward should be comparable.

As previously stated the review reward is comparable, just not the same point system as for short story/novels. But the ratio is the same. I've made the comparison several times on the old site, so not going to waste any more time republishing. You can test it yourself. Simply post a poem and compare the credits someone will receive to the credits it cost you to post. Do the same with a short story/novel. You should find that in both cases, you would need to review almost exactly the same number of works in order to get enough points to publish a work of the same length - that number is 4 or so it was on the old site the best I recall (exact number is really irrelevant) and I assume (since I'm not redoing the experiment for the umpteenth time) it is the same on this site barring any glitches.

In other words if you review four poems of the same number of words of the one you wish to publish, then you will earn almost the exact number of points to publish that poem. The same is true of a short story/novel chapter. So they are comparable in ratio; they just seem different when you try to jump from one to the other which is not how the system is set up. If you wish to publish a poem, review poems; if you wish to publish short story/novels then review those and they provide the exact same benefit. If you really want to scam the system, then review only poems and publish short story/novels for the greatest bang for the points on a per word basis. Go in the opposite direction, you're running uphill. Take care. Vern

Quote Post 18

Re: Bonus Points

Vern--don't get mad. I asked because I thought it would be a diversion to post some of our thought in the form of lyrics, so I started Mama, Trains and Pickup Trucks group. We aren't aiming for high poetry, but the exercise of controlling word number, meter and rhyme along with meaning works to discipline an author, just as writing a drabble does. If we can have fun while we stretch our writing muscles, we might as well, don't you think? I'd prefer not to charge for the use of the gym, though. If there's no such thing as posting for free, then the cause is lost before we begin, but if there is, we'd like to try it. I don't know, what do others think about having P.E. (poetry education) on the site?

Quote Post 19

Re: Bonus Points

j p lundstrom wrote:

Vern--don't get mad.

I would never get mad over anything like this; I only try to clarify questions posed and my sometimes obviously not so clear explanations. Take care. Vern

Quote Post 20

Re: Bonus Points

Mike Roberson wrote:

How about an adjustment to the computations.  I posted a poem last night over 7 points.  I read a chapter in line review for 1.6 points.  I think the base of the problem is in the calculations.  Not to be whiny but just sayin.  Mike

Did you post to different groups requiring points to post in that group?
Otherwise, that's a lot of points for a poem.

big_smile

Quote Post 21

Re: Bonus Points

dagnee wrote:
Mike Roberson wrote:

How about an adjustment to the computations.  I posted a poem last night over 7 points.  I read a chapter in line review for 1.6 points.  I think the base of the problem is in the calculations.  Not to be whiny but just sayin.  Mike

Did you post to different groups requiring points to post in that group?
Otherwise, that's a lot of points for a poem.

big_smile

I thought they had fixed the multiple points for posting to different groups. That was one reason folks weren't joining groups that cost points. Then, many point groups changed to no points. It just doesn't make sense to have to pay points to post to groups when you have to pay for Premium.

Quote Post 22

Re: Bonus Points

Not everyone posts to Premium, Janet. I currently review the work of an author who posts in a private group.

Quote Post 23

Re: Bonus Points

Norm d'Plume wrote:

Not everyone posts to Premium, Janet. I currently review the work of an author who posts in a private group.


My point is that there should not be points for posting to multiple groups. I post to several & I thought they had done away with having to use points for multiple group posts. I might be wrong and am killing myself with the posts.

Quote Post 24