1,676 (edited by njc 2017-03-09 13:34:34)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Is your Chronomancer going to appear anywhere else?

Magelight and/on Shadowbook.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I'm thinking "From Here to Eternity" since it is going to take that long for me to finish this bitch.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I like Defiler Rising.

Wolves vs Defiler. (kind of like Terminator vs Predator)

And yes, I still plan to amplify the Chronomancer's character. The Shadowbooks are just too cool so I have to use them.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

New Chapter 3 is up rewritten from Alda's perspective.

1,680 (edited by njc 2017-03-12 00:50:41)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

The thought is to make Alda a 'character journey' while Jaylene is already going through a heros journey. In other words, Jaylene's story involves the Earthwound-it has to-and I'm not willing to go into that part of history yet. So Jaylene starts with the Wolves together, and ends with the destruction of the Defiler, and the Wolves are back together again (so her story won't end until Age of Academia)

Aldas story is about being forced to act in order to protect Behira (and by extension, Jaylene) Alda's arc is short enough to wrap in this book, as well.

If I go into Jaylene, I have to consider wrapping Jaylene's story and the mystery in there, so muting Jaylene's role will keep the reader from considering the mystery as a focus.

Right now, this is a challenge. I've wandered through the past 15 years with this story. Now, I've challenged myself to take another step higher in my composition and writing. I consider this to be an exercise. I've kept the old material as I learn and explore a different perspective. In the end, I'll choose the one that I like.

Trust me?

Another problem is that I haven't found a way to write a vibrant Jaylene.whenever I write her perspective, I fall flat. So we will see how she is received when written from the perspective of Tazar and Alda.

Where shall I start?  With the bitterest, most brutal, cruelest, and least relevant thing.

Trust me?

My feelings are irrelevant because they come from the perspective of I, Reader.  They're also impossible for me to shake off completely.  You've brought me into a story which I love, in spite of some serious flaws in the telling.  Now you're telling me that this wasn't the story after all.  How could you do that to me, Reader?

With that hurtful bellow out of my chest, I the writer will struggle to be heard, and I the writer will try to shake a little sense into you.

Another problem is that I haven't found a way to write a vibrant Jaylene. whenever I write her perspective, I fall flat.

Bollocks!

Okay, I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'vibrant'.  Matt Bird's first criterion is that The reader must empathize with the character.  Fail that, and all is lost.  Succeed, and you can get by with fifth-rate work everywhere else.  (See Evanovitch, Janet, or the early mysteries that Sarah Hoyt was persuaded to issue under the name Elise Hyatt--now back in Kindleprint.)  I'm not suggesting that you do it that way.  You, Amy_s, would have to work hard to write that badly.  Please don't.  But it could be done.  There's more than enough Jaylene to make it work.

In every human interaction, in every bitter decision, I identify--empathize--with Jaylene.  Her weaknesses are as leader and fighter.  Guess what?  She grows into that position and that's her character journey.  Yes, it needs tweaking, near the middle of the story to show it wakening, near the end because her insides are masked rather than shown by how you write many of her actions.  But when she tells Alda "I want you to know that every one of us vouched for you.  It wasn't enough."  I could cry.  At times like that, Jaylene is real.

You've got something very good.  You just need to see it clearly in order to finish it.

Jaylene's journey isn't the Hero's Journey because she's already in a position of responsibility.  She's not Lucy Skywalker, growing up in a backwater.  She's already lived one dream, an adventurer, one of the Wolves who saved their civilization.  Now she has to become two things: a war leader and the true Lance Of Behira.  She has to take her place beside Elston and Sulder.  (And this is a reason not to kill Sulder.)

As to Jaylene's backstory: It probably doesn't belong in this narrative, but it shapes who she is.  If you don't have one written, you should at least sketch it out so it will feel like she's coming from the place of a whole person--the exact opposite of Alda.  Alda acts when she doesn't know what to do.  Jaylene must learn what to do in order to act.

Alda ... it will be hard to paint Alda as a compelled mind in a way that the reader can fit into, much less empathize with.  In fact, making her 'relateable' (as other authorities say) could take over the book.  That would be bad.

Why?  Because this is part of a large story about Events.  In the end, this adventure is an Event story, as opposed to Milieu, Idea, or Character.  Yes, you need characters, so that the reader can experience the story through them.  They are the reader's magic carpet flying through the story.  But the real story is in the events, the mysteries, the conflicts of powers.  Whether you say that the point is the magic carpet or the panorama it flies through, neither has any value without the other.  Neither can reach its full telos if it tries to take over the other's job.

In Acts, Anver is the protagonist.  But Kha dominates the story when present and by his absence.  This is as it should be, and it's fitting that the story opens and closes with Kha.

Jaylene starts out as Tilly.  She must end the master story as Kha and Sil combined, but still the caring Jaylene in whom Behira can place her desperate hope.  (And this is where memories of Jaylene's appointment as Lance might play a part.)

You want an early death?  Make it clear that Alda cares about Puppy, more than she admits.  Then let her suffer when Puppy dies.  And build an implicit link between the Jaylene that Puppy died to save and the Jaylene whose gratitude Alda doesn't want.  Let Alda admit, just a little, that Puppy was worth caring about.  Somehow Jaylene must get over that shock, too.  As important as Tazar is to Jaylene, rescuing Tazar is the first step in Jaylene's coming back into life--a life that will have to be different from her old one.

Remember how Hedwig the owl died near the start of Deathly Hollows?  Hedwig wasn't a minor character.  She was hardly a character at all.  But her death stung.  It said 'this is serious'.

And, rambling on, the whole rest of Dictates is about Jaylene slowly discovering why Behira kept her alive and sent her back.  In fact, that's another way to look at her character arc.

Perfection is impossible--but it's all around us!

You've got greatness in front of you.  You're piled high with it.  You don't need a midnight run to Writer's Depot!

1,681 (edited by njc 2017-03-12 01:29:58)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Some further thoughts after that diatribe:

Puppy dies saving Jaylene.  Alda tries to push Jaylene away, and has to admit that she didn't even know Puppy's name.  "You know what?" Jaylene says.  "Neither did I.  But we're going to find out."  Alda can't refuse that, and it is the slow beginning of a bond between them.

(edit: Memorial service for Puppy, who saved Alda and Jaylene, whose sacrifice gave Alda time to act.  Jaylene makes Alda speak (without warning her) and Alda is forced to admit, before everyone, that she's grateful.  For a moment the other voice comes through, but it's mostly Alda.  You've got so much to work with!)

The caring Jaylene whom Behira desperately needs is at odds with the war leader and Lance that Behira desperately needs.

There are several ways for a battle to be bloody.  One is for the victor to slaughter the survivors.  Another is for one side to so overmatch the other than the other side is doomed from the start of the engagement--whichever side has started it.  But slaughter is also possible between evenly matched sides determined to give no quarter in a pitched battle.

Such a battle was Antietam, one of the bloodiest in modern history.  If we read in Herodotus or Livy the accounts that we read of Antietam, we would declare them hyperbole.  They are not.

Ulysses Grant oversaw Antietam ('slaughter, unleavened by generalship' writes, I think, Bruce Catton) and other blood-soaked battles (as well as some of the least bloody battles of that war; see Grant: A Victor, Not a Butcher).  Whether it was an old trait or one born in the War with Mexico, Grant could not stand the sight of pink or red meat.  What meat he ate had to be shoe-leather well-done.

Jaylene cares.  It is a necessary strength and an unavoidable weakness.  I'd rather see her suffering the sight and smells of death than fatigue from magic use (however necessary the latter).

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I hear you. And I see the appeal that Jaylene has carried with you.

I'm considering writing a side-by-side with two different Jaylene characterizations. What I had planned to do was separate Alda from Jaylene (briefly) and let Alda (through connection to the Lance) see into Jaylene's journey while Alda sleeps. That way, she would recognize that Jaylene is in danger, since Petra will be down there. And I would get a chance to show Jaylene's indecision, because that isn't her public face.

Right now, I'm torn. I want to thin this to 100K words. Something has to go.

I accept that my plot is meandering. I agree with the assessment that the Horror isn't enough incentive (by its lonesome) to go down into the Catacombs, leaving the Temple exposed when there has been two attempts on Jaylene's life. (I presented a mystery and then Jaylene escapes the whole thing by going below-kind of misleading the reader) By adding a few clues, I can provide the incentive for Jaylene to think that Base Camp might be compromised.

This isn't a midnight run to Writer's Depot, BTW. The idea is amusing, but inaccurate. I'm not selling my story by dumbing it down, or thinning it to make it commercial. I'm reorganizing, thinning, deleting, rewriting, exploring different perspectives, and seeing if there is a more compact way to tell this story. In other words, I'm doing what I consider to be a true edit. What should be done after the first draft is cleaned and ready for submission to a publisher or agent.  This is the point that TNBW doesn't nurture us to grow beyond. People just hit a natural end-point in their abilities and publish before their work is ready. They don't see past their own process.

I was so damn sick of Jaylene's story back in December. I was ready to take a break and move back to Acts so I could add more Alina-villain. However, the freelance I hired told me to finish this one. Then I could move on. And there is wisdom in his words. Because I've dawdled and spun my wheels for the last 20 years. I'm invigorated now, ready to see what happens. When I say to trust me, I'm asking you to keep pointing out what you like, what you hate, what you miss from the old work, and what makes you cheer.  I'm not discarding the old-Jaylene. I'm retelling her. What you saw (and liked) is still in there.

Remember that I based the Wolves on real people. Kha exists in a guy named Jerry. Jaylene is a college friend named Darlene, who is the most dominating/ under-confident person that I've ever met. So these rewrites are an attempt to stay true to her character. For me to eliminate Jaylene's uncertainty, I would have to change Darlene, and that isn't going to happen.

This isn't the final version. You've seen the changes, and I expect at least one more rewrite where I change it just as much, and that will be the point where I add the old material back in, once I see where the old material fits. Be patient. Be honest. The story that you bonded with isn't gone into the ether.

And I'm having fun writing Alda. Her ascendance was a hoot. I really liked her seeing magic so that she could pass Fourth Circle, her nose on the floor and tracing the outline of feet like a dance diagram. Those paragraphs that you outlined (that you enjoyed) won't see the sun if I switch back to the old story from Jaylene's perspective.

Truth.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

If Jaylene doesn't grow into her role, there's no character arc.  But Behira needs now-Jaylene -as well as- new-Jaylene.

I wouldn't rush quite so hard to get Jaylene underground.  You can nibble a little out of the Tazar rescue, but if -his- character arc is important, you can't implode it.

Sulder should have a reason to send Jaylene underground.  If -he- believes the Horror is now too dangerous, and if in his Slash-weakened state, Behira warns him of dangers the cannot now fight, Jaylene's mission becomes desperate.

I would instead look to condense the journey belowground.  As much as you like Zylph and the antlion, they don't say as much about Jaylene's development as her handling of Tazar's release in all it's stages.

Why are you concerned about 100,000 words?  Fantasy novels can go much longer, as long as they are interesting.  You've got plenty of meat, in character as well as action and mystery.  Give yourself 110,000 words.

I'm on the smartphone now, so it's hard to hold a good discussion.

1,684 (edited by njc 2017-03-12 17:00:21)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Would it make plot sense to have some of the warning to go underground to come frm Saundon's camp?  Maybe even have Saundon's people interfere with an attempt on Sulder?  A literal Deus ex Mahina?

Or find a link to the House Kraken disaster?

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

>> because I've dawdled and spun my wheels for the last twenty years.

That makes me feel a little better, given that my first book will take eight years, part-time. Although you're writing multiple books in that time, so you're moving at a blistering pace compared to me. I write about one chapter a month, including edits from my reviewers.

I can't believe there are authors who can crank out entire books in a few months.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I can't believe there are authors who can crank out entire books in a few months.

Hmm... once you're a few books in, you'll get your world established and you'll just churn them out.

Most of what you're experiencing now is uncertainty about the rules of the world. If X has Y property, will it work within the context? Does this concept work? Does this style and character voice work? Once the rules are fixed, and everything is all but immutable, you'll be able to just sit down and write.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

It's all about how much time I have. In the beginning, I wrote and shared stories with my friends. We established the characters, and then everyone was free to use the characters as they chose. The primary writers were myself and the gal who conceptualized Melody, but a couple other stories came out of it, including one story about Jaylene.

The story arc closed after a year, and everybody fell off the grid (the story of my life when I've found something fun).  Years passed. I kept the folder with the stories and would read them every now and again. Then, I kept seeing Airen drawing a bow at Kha's face, and decided to write it out. I wandered through Kha's story, much like what NJC is doing with Mellaen and Merran, writing chapters that didn't equal a cohesive whole, and finally typing them out on a computer.

Time passed.

Then I got a computer and connected the chapters. By then it had been at least 12 years, and I split the story (which was interconnected instead of separate books). I was looking for feedback, and trying to show people my stories, but wasn't getting much (any) interest. I didn't realize that people are readers and not writers. I started looking for a group in Cleveland. Didn't find bupkis. 

Time passed.

Then, I was told about TNBW. And I found people with similar interests. I read my old material and wince at the mistakes that I made, but they were part of the learning curve required to improve, so I don't let myself throw them out. I've been on TNBW about 3 years, and my learning curve is massive. I FINISHED two of the drafts, which never would have been possible before. But I'm starting to plateau again, so I'm looking for forward momentum.

I couldn't have done this any quicker, but I'd like to avoid taking another 20 years to have a work I consider publishable. Those who churn out a book a month are looking to make a living at writing. I don't need that because I'll never make the same pay grade writing as I do working in health care, so I can take the time to produce something of quality.

Man, what I could accomplish if I had a paid year off. Or a spouse who could let me be a stay-at-home mom and writer. But that isn't going to happen, so I make more time to sit down and don't schedule distractions. Each year, I spend more of my time writing. Someday...

Keep the flame burning, Dirk. Keep laughing at your space-puns, and messing with your characters. Set a challenge to yourself to sit down for at least 2 hours a day and write. Nothing else. No TV. No distractions. Do it for a week and see what happens. I double-dog-triple-dare you.

A

1,688 (edited by njc 2017-03-13 04:26:35)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Making the attack go against Sulder will require a stronger reason to send Jaylene away.

Was  Jaylene ready for the role of strategos when she was elevated?  I think not.  That could have been, and could still be, a point of contention between Elston and Sulder.  If Sulder dies while Jaylene is away, it could make things harder, especially if Elston has had feelings for Jaylene all along.  It can scramble his judgement of previous choices.  Even if he's not in the center of things, it could be visible and plausible to the reader.

1,689 (edited by njc 2017-03-13 05:19:44)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Remember, you can make use of stuff in other storylines.  Sil's transformation triggers Jaylene's revivification.  How many days is it until the necromantic Master is killed?  If it's not too long, you can have some time pass (rescuing Tazar, Puppy's memorial, stating that days pass, a conference with the recovering Sulder ... and then Sulder becomes aware of Maalok's death and the Horror that owned him being passed to a new host.

There is the Horror stored in the Catacombs.  The Horror now moving would like to rejoin with it one.  Elston (if he's really a good guy) thinks he knows how the Lance can destroy them, with the aid of the forces at Base.  And the Horror Jayene holds is also a grave danger if the others rejoin.  The best hope is to get it moving and get ahead of the other one.

In the meantime, Alda has been the despair of people trying to train her.  She learns and forgets.  Sometimes she remembers for Jaylene.  Jaylene has been reading the memoirs of the three other revivified Lances.  Maybe we learn a little about the leadership and war duties of the Lance, and see Jaylene moved by what they did, and thinking that her elevation was a mistake.  Maybe she shares this with Alda ... ?  Spends time in prayer--which leaves her more confused than before?  Maybe a parallel with Alda here?

Or maybe it's the attack on Kha and Sil that Sulder picks up?  That puts it a few days earlier.  We could learn that Sulder has had something like a seizure--Behira showing him some of the terror that she sees, or that he feels the power that Sil unleashes at Blossom.  It's not quite the Council of Elrond, but you can use it to give Jaylene about half of the certainty--and all of the determination--that she felt about rescuing Tazar.

And if Saundon is a good guy, maybe you could even have Saundon's priest come with news of something.  The attacks on Kha and Sil are aboveground, and within Saundon's demense.  They could even bring word that one of Behira's Founders has not been seen in the air, that she was transformed more than once, and attacked, and is not what she was.

Of course, you have to find time where Tazar has been.  Is he determined to hide?  To defend against magic?  Maybe it's Alda who knows where to find him, maybe some event drives him to run to Jaylene with news.  Maybe HE felt the drive of magic somewhere ... maybe interrupts that Council, or is found waiting when it's over.

One thing Tazar would not do is hang around the Temple, with all its magic.

Yes, this is more, not less, before you go underground.  Don't worry about that.  Tighten up the underground journey, and if it takes 120,00 breathless words, let it.  Readers buy breathless words.

The real point here is that you've got so much to work with because of your multiple timelines.

Heck, you could even have Marion report a dream!

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Just spent the whole evening researching/writing one paragraph, only to decide that I'll probably chuck the researched parts in the morning. Either that, or do more thorough research. It's a critical paragraph for v3, so I'll probably keep at it. Interpreting Bible verses is a bitch. Based on the original Greek/Hebrew texts, one interpretation of Jesus's line "I have come to fulfill the Law" is "I have come to teach the Law", yet many websites and forums users claim it means the harsh Old Testament laws no longer apply because of the New Covenant. I may have to lengthen my estimate to 8.5 years for book one. Sheesh.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Let us assert that the pharisees were perfect in mosaic law. If we shall equally assert that the mosaic law was used to condemn a perfectly innocent man to death, we can say that the OT law would condemn everyone else. Eg if OT laws were to apply, no one would be saved post JC.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Oh, and Alda could have a remark-from-nowhere that clues Elston on how to do the destruction.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Hey everyone!!!!

Just wanted to drop in and say I'm still alive and the revision of NS is going well. And I miss you lot heaps.

There's not too much news on my side apart from the project I was working on is on hold, so the site visit isn't going to happen. This doesn't mean I'm never going to get close. When it happens I'll let you know!!!

Hope you guys are doing well!

Janet

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Are you planning to post your latest revision of NS, Janet?

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Norm d'Plume wrote:

Are you planning to post your latest revision of NS, Janet?

Not at the moment, Dirk. Plan is to do the revision, let it rest while I start with book #2. I'll post that one again for reviews.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I'll ping you when Aussie reappears. He's definitely going to have a kickass scene in the book's revised wrap-up chapter.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Norm d'Plume wrote:

I'll ping you when Aussie reappears. He's definitely going to have a kickass scene in the book's revised wrap-up chapter.

I'll check in every now and again. If all else fails, email me at janetreid.aus@bigpond.com and I'll be all over it like bad rash! smile

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Janet (AJ) Reid wrote:
Norm d'Plume wrote:

Are you planning to post your latest revision of NS, Janet?

Not at the moment, Dirk. Plan is to do the revision, let it rest while I start with book #2. I'll post that one again for reviews.

And you have peace from my pestering you about participles.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

We miss you. Revise, and then revise again. Push forward on book 2. I'm so proud of you!

(FYI, it might be time for another phone call. We need to check in with each other at least once a year!)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

njc wrote:
Janet (AJ) Reid wrote:
Norm d'Plume wrote:

Are you planning to post your latest revision of NS, Janet?

Not at the moment, Dirk. Plan is to do the revision, let it rest while I start with book #2. I'll post that one again for reviews.

And you have peace from my pestering you about participles.

Not yet. The dreams at night are still vivid! big_smile