1,626 (edited by njc 2017-02-15 03:16:14)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Progressing from one crisis/goal to another is not a problem.  How you do it is.

If you're going to kill Sulder, we should see the contrast between the good and gentle man who sacrifices for Tazar and the wickedness of his murder.  We the reader should feel it almost as badly as Jaylene does; we might wonder what it means to Alda from the clues given, and Tazar's gratitude might make his purpose terrifying.  Instead of a constellation of two, you get a constellation of three.  We should feel her fear at leaving the Order above unguarded while we she goes for the Order below.

Rearrange Zylpf and the dangers so there is already danger pursuing them.

Let them find, at a critical moment, that the danger is not what they feared.

Decide what is essential with the Taken and telescope the rest.

And someone can give me similar advice.  I'll argue with it and go in a different direction, but it will help nevertheless.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

amy s wrote:

That would really work Kha's last nerve, considering that I have him not casting magic, starving, and carrying Sil on a litter as he moves toward the trade road.  All with a horse following at a distance, within easy reach or a whistle away. 

Hmph.  Might just consider that one since I love cause Kha stress.  Some characters just deserve it :-)

Kha might not DESERVE Horse's loyalty (which is very rare among horses) and he may not know what to do with it ... but it comes at a critical moment.  If Horse dies, Kha should feel it in spite of himself, if only for helping him save Sil--or, if she will survive death, his own life in which he may enjoy Sil.  (This may provide some of the changes in Kha that spook Anver.  Kat might understand better.)  And Sil might have something to tell Kha about gratitude to Horse.  It might even echo what Airen--and even Marion--tell Kha.

What would Airen be like mimicking her mother?  How would she react afterwords?

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Jaylene reminds me of Joseph. Neither has any interesting flaws. Maybe she's not completely healed when she's brought back to life. Then give her whatever flaws you want. Maybe her time back in this world is limited and she knows it. It would strike me as odd that the lead character's POV isn't included in the story. It would be an interesting read either way.

The West Wing was supposed to focus on the White House staff, with only limited appearances by Martin Sheen. I think it would have been a much weaker show without the brilliant, temperamental, disease-hiding Jed at its core. https://www.buzzfeed.com/robinedds/let- … .cjQxQN5P5

If I didn't have 2-3 books in mind for my story, I'd whack Joseph at the end of book one. In the first draft, he was the only MC and he was always meant to take that flying leap. Billie's evil ghost will hopefully make him more interesting this time around. Book two will expand to three POVs (including Caligula's). Don't ask me how yet. I just decided that as I wrote this. One less book to write before I drop dead. :-)

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

You're not wrong, but I think there's more to it than that.  Unfortuneately, I need sleep right now.  Two Q's to start: what are Anver's flaws? How has resurrecton changed Jaylene?

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Anver had no standout flaws that I recall. Amy, are you taking notes? I did like him as a character, though. He was like Archie Andrews. Fifty+ years of sales and still going strong. Cha-ching. Yunker was his Jughead.

At the risk of breaking Amy's story, you could give Jaylene some form of physical and/or mental suffering (preferably both) as she decays, with only her declining will to fulfill Behira's purpose for her. Spoiler Alert: Jaylene dies at the end. :-)

I should take up writing.

1,631 (edited by Kdot 2017-02-16 12:12:16)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

what are Anver's flaws?
Anver had no standout flaws that I recall

Meh. Anver doesn't need flaws to keep himself interesting because he's surrounded on all sides by enemies & strife. Basic Rocky / K1mberly formula - Keep the MC's back to the wall. Make sure he's fighting desperately against overwhelming odds with zero chance of success and knows at best he might pick up his own broken pieces from the field. He wins by thinking outside the box - or by daring what little he has left... or by sheer determination. This kind of hero need no extra rendering.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I didn't much care for K I m b e r l y until you killed her and everyone around her in a blast. The book felt too short to get to know her and your story world, so the ending was too abrupt and final. Kind of like the opposite of deux ex machina. Hence my delight when she showed up at J e n n a's hanging chopping heads. I thought you had resurrected her. Sometimes you just need the hero to kick ass and win.

I didn't really feel much tension throughout Anver's story, except for the feud with Alina and the events that followed it. I asked Amy many times in the first half when the real story would begin.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Anver has flaws.  He doesn't want Kha's job.  He doesn't want more power.  He's stuck with a staff with a mind of it's own.  And he's vulnerable to Katerine.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

mmm I don't classify those as flaws...

Not wanting a job (but getting stuck with it) = obstacle
Not wanting power but getting stuck with it = obstacle
Staff that won't listen to him = minion
Vulnerability = weakness

eg Superman's weakness to Kryptonite I wouldn't call a flaw. More, his steadfast assumption that all men contain good.

If Jaylene is decaying as per Norm's suggestion, I wouldn't call that a flaw. Rather a flaw would be her ignoring the decay.... or her willingness to gamble her friends lives because she's going to die anyway and just doesn't care.

I make this distinction because adding weaknesses / vulnerabilities doesn't make a character more or less flat by itself. (Flat - assuming the editor called Jaylene flat) - it just makes certain scenes easier to write. eg Putting Anver in a wheelchair is insufficient to increase his interest level.

wo Q's to start: what are Anver's flaws?

Approaching it from this angle, I can't see Anver as having any flaws. I do re-submit: does he need flaws? Yes, Batman is deeply flawed, but if he wasn't, could DC still sell movie tickets? I would say yes - Batman is interesting because of his approach to problem-solving more than his flaws.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Norm d'Plume wrote:

At the risk of breaking Amy's story, you could give Jaylene some form of physical and/or mental suffering (preferably both) as she decays, with only her declining will to fulfill Behira's purpose for her.

That's not a flaw.  That's an obstacle.   A flaw leads to misunderstanding, misinterpretation, or wrong decision.

The Greeks showed us that the best flaws are strengths in the wrong place and time or out of proportion.

Jaylene is a Cold War leader.   Now open war looms.

Her handling of Tazar's imprisonment involves all the right choices.  Maybe she should make a mistake, corrected by someone else?  Maybe her mistake drives her final desperation in the prison?

1,636 (edited by njc 2017-02-15 13:39:13)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

K, you got there first!  But Is Anver's distaste for his responsibilities an obstacle or a flaw?  I think it's a flaw.  Or maybe a quirk that helps us empathize with him.

He's goaded into the duel with Alina, maybe for his feelings rather than just cause.  This is why I think letting Anver know about how Alina killed his friend before he commits to the duel is a mistake.  It's too much outer reason and not enough Anver

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Ramifications from Sulder's death may include anger and doubt, exposing character issues and creating doubt.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

"Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add but when there is nothing left to take away."

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

This is why I think letting Anver know about how Alina killed his friend before he commits to the duel is a mistake.  It's too much outer reason and not enough Anver


... Egads! I'm in agreement with njc. Note if Amy will agree the universe could cease to exist

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

But Is Anver's distaste for his responsibilities an obstacle or a flaw?  I think it's a flaw.  Or maybe a quirk that helps us empathize with him.

A quirk that helps empathize, agree 100%.

A flaw? I dunno.

People are calling Trump unfit to lead because he doesn't want to brief as much as past presidents. Is his distaste for debriefing a flaw? Or does he want to focus his time/energy elsewhere and trusts the people around him more than past presidents? If he uses the extra time to golf, yes, it's a flaw because he has a job to do and isn't doing it.

So the question becomes is Anver shirking his duties or trying to steer his priorities?

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Kdot wrote:

This is why I think letting Anver know about how Alina killed his friend before he commits to the duel is a mistake.  It's too much outer reason and not enough Anver


... Egads! I'm in agreement with njc. Note if Amy will agree the universe could cease to exist

It's been too long since I read Acts. Why did Anver agree to the duel? He's not really the dueling type.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Norm d'Plume wrote:

I didn't much care for K I m b e r l y until you killed her and everyone around her in a blast. The book felt too short to get to know her and your story world, so the ending was too abrupt and final. Kind of like the opposite of deux ex machina. Hence my delight when she showed up at J e n n a's hanging chopping heads. I thought you had resurrected her. Sometimes you just need the hero to kick ass and win.

First draft is about 60K words... novella length. I'm generally 75% more wordy on a 2nd draft, so I expect to hit about 90K. I don't like to pass the mid 80's, so at 90, I'll be looking to kill even more characters off.

I agree sometimes the hero needs to win. My original story line called for [K i m] to lose in Book 4, Lorraine to Lose in Book 6, and Books 8 and 10 to be losses as well -- such that even-numbered volumes would be downers followed by comeback volumes. Not all has gone according to plan with characters often refusing to die et al, but I'm working on it.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

In Acts, Anver agreed to the duel because she challenged him. (She initially tried to challenge Kha, but that was blocked by the Guildhouse vow, so she went after Anver so she could hurt Kha. Anver agreed because of the murdered twin, and because he realized that Alina had taken his friend's hair as a trophy and was weaving it into her own hair to taunt him.)

Anver's flaws:
Inexperience
Too nice in a world that rewards cruelty
An obsession for knowledge, no matter what the cost. He reads books on necromancy even though the text makes him nauseous.  He ignores riches but saves books. He could have used Kha's seal to withdraw the money in the account and lived off the profit as a rich man. Instead, he stayed at the school and did the work of two for a pittance.
Loyalty to Kha despite poor treatment.
Doesn't know when to draw the line and say, "No."

I don't need to add flaws to Anver. He has so much happening around him, that I need a 'straight man' to deal with the craziness. I think that the combination works in that book. When I rewrite Acts, I'm going to have much more Alina added so that the villain will be clear.

However, adding a flaw to Jaylene...that is an interesting thought. Some sort of disadvantage. Like maybe she needs to be near Alda to rejuvenate otherwise she will start to decay? Or she becomes terribly afraid of heights (it would complicate the prison rescue as well as the sandtrap). Or she feels that she should have died and is constantly fighting the urge to finish the deed for once and for all. Or she is able to see her ghosts, just as Kha did in the first chapter of Mandates. If she started talking to herself, that would mess with the trust level of her troops. The problem I have is that I need a 'straight man' again as a foil for Alda's shenanigans (NJC and I agreed a while ago that Tazar/Jaylene/ Alda interact like the Three Stooges)

I like the thought of the ressurection changing Jaylene. Got to think about it.

Have I ever said that I think you guys are amazing?  Well, I do.


FYI, I'm embroiled in finishing a Powerpoint presentation. I give the talk this coming Thursday, and I'm hoping to be a more frequent presence on the website after that. So far, I've put about 15 hours into it. (How to read CT Scans).  Figure there is about another 10 hours and I should be done.

Thanks for keeping my plot in your thoughts. I'll see if I can return the favor (the Plot Wrecker Flies Again!)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

A decaying/dying Jaylene would also add a sense of sadness to an otherwise successful journey (assuming they succeed, haven't read that far yet). A little like Lord of the Rings, where Frodo succeeds, but is so scarred, he leaves Middle Earth forever.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

But it's not a flaw; it's an obstacle.

Look at the flaws you've listed for Anver.  How could Jaylene fall into that sort of flaw, either by deficiency or excess?  Does her devotion to Tazar almost get someone killed?  Require apologies to the Great Houses?  Cause her to miss something important developing at the Temple?

BTW, Anver putting his studies ahead of stolen wealth might not be a flaw  smile .

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

No argument from me. Obstacle, not flaw. Technically, Billie is not a flaw of Joseph's either, just a scary-ass obstacle. However, Joseph's flaws lead to deaths and even to his possession by Billie.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

A Horror is piece of the Defiler, and a remnant of the Sundering (where the Defiler got blowed apart.)

It is considered to be a courtesy to have clips on all the chairs at the Academy. They are everywhere else, but not at Alina's school, because she wants to inconvenience anyone who doesn't have a wand.

Katerin would add the clips once the absence was pointed out to her. She doesn't use them, so never noticed the deficit before.

What chapter are you asking about? Because I'm not sure with the mention of Saundon and what magic will become...are we talking about my rewrite of Acts where I'm adding more about the twins?

Will there be magic when this is all done? Not sure, though I find that unlikely. I like magic, so it hasn't become a finite resource during this age. I'd like a HEA option to my main characters.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

HEA?

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Happy Ever After, distinct from HFN.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Ragarding leftover Magic: use a LOTR solution: no new mages, magic fades over years, immortals become mortal.  Poor Anver--all that study.