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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Your last chapter has two obvious flaws.  First, the wrong title.  It should be =The Beginning=.  Second, you need some hint that the story goes on.  More in the review.

1,577

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Anent the review reply: Tell us, either in the flashback or the chapter before, why the bracelet has survived this long.

1,578 (edited by Norm d'Plume 2016-12-31 16:30:50)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Kdot wrote:

a) If your editor doesn't find any major flaws you either have a best-seller or a bad editor

Or, you've had a variety of experienced reviewers, read a lot of how-to books, and written 2.5 drafts. At those prices, I can't afford the expense for a self-published book.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Or, you've had a variety of experienced reviewers

Don't trust your reviewers. Due to the nature of the site, reviewers are on your side and will forgive you a lot of greivances.

This includes me. Don't trust even my reviews. A lot of things that would make me put a book down irl I am willing to tolerate here because its a workshop site. I feel like I can overlook giant flaws because I know the writer isn't done yet. Is this a sports novel and the MC rookie quarterback completes every pass? I'll probably mention it in chapter 10 and forget about it. I trust the writer to figure things out. Said writer might think "Oh... only one reviewer commented and not very much. It's ok for a rookie QB to never fail". But the truth is, I (the reviewer) trusted you (the writer) which means you shouldn't trust me.

At the very minimum, paying for a substantive edit is worth the money (usually $1 per page). The harsher the better. Your readers will not spare your feelings when it comes out, so you might as well get that part over with.

1,580

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Right now, I've put 1/2 down and he's encouraged me to finish the first draft. He read the first three chapters, and had a FaceTime chat with me about his impressions. The first read and FaceTime conversation was only $25.

Initially, I didn't intend to submit a finished work (because I was paying him, so he couldn't tell me what to do), but I decided to take the challenge and have him read the book from start to finish. We extended the deadline of his review, and I've been finishing the last 8 chapters and took the opportunity to revise again. I've been going back into a lot of the reviews and integrating changes, thinning out the word count, etc.

Once I submit the first draft (tonight), he will read it and get back to me within a week.  Each of his suggestions will then get reviewed by me and I'll have the option of accepting or rejecting them. Then he'll integrate the ideas into the draft as part of the fee. FYI, he isn't doing punctuation or line editing. He's reviewing concept, plot, and overall impression.

His initial assessment got me to fix my monotone sentences, getting me to link them into longer segments in order to vary the meter. I think the whole work is better just from that idea. TJ also has weapons training, (saber and fencing) so he'll be a benefit in that arena since I've been kinda managing that side of things without a lot of input from others.

As for the overall value of the critique, we'll see in a week. I'm paying a lot, and I'm waiting to see if the investment is worth using him for the other four books. Right now, his fee is high. A penny a word. Unless I manage to hack out a couple more chapters, the overall cost will be about 1200 dollars.

So far, I consider TJ's services to be of value, and it helps knowing that I'm dealing with a person who is vetted and actually works in the field. He reps what I want to write, and I've got a good concept that I think is marketable in a post-LOTR world. If he offers me a contract, then he's paying me back, but I don't think I'm ready for a sale.

I feel that people publish too quickly. They polish their book to the maximum of their abilities, but they get tired and don't enlist professional help, so they have a crapload of misspellings, punctuation errors, and don't keep track of their props, etc. If I self-publish, I'll probably hire someone as a line editor to correct the errors I've let slip by.

The only exception that I've seen to this rule is The Martian, and that blows a lot of my theories out of the water.

I'll let you know what else happens. I've got my fingers crossed...

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Amy, the introduction of the ants really made me want to meet the queen eventually. Even the Borg had a queen (she was damn cool). Or do I mean Queen? tongue

1,582

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

once they trapped the Borg with an infinite loop puzzle, I was done with them being cool

1,583

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I'll see what I can do for more time with Zylph. I'll keep it in mind.

1,584

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Hey, anyone home?

1,585

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I'm here. Had a bout with the newest designer flu and had to work in the interim, so I've been too weary to pay attention to fun.

So far I have a bunch of projects that I need to catch up on.

1) I need to do a power point on how to read CT scans (lecture next month)
2) I need to finish Nicole's beta read. I've been stringing her along for simply MONTHS, so I need to get cracking on it.
3) Rebecca Vaughn and I have been interacting more and she drowned me in reviews. I've hit her back with my best ideas on how to improve her work, but the individual chapters are time consuming.
4) I have to get my prescriptive privileges filled out and sent to the DEA. Work is making me do it. I've been resisting for years, but it is finally time for me to pony up and deal with the pain of rx privileges.

In addition, I need to review youz dudes.  Pity is that I had some free time at work and all I got accomplished was looking at the inside of my eyelids. I feel the better now, and I have 2 days off coming up without having to travel. Or deal with any drama. Or cook for hours. Other than taking down my tree, and run a street sweeper over my carpet (which has seen better days), I don't have a lot planned. Lets see if I can spend some time with my besties.

A

1,586 (edited by njc 2017-01-22 04:38:47)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Don't spoil Rebecca's style too much!  It really suits her material.  (And take heed of my little report on JRRT!)

1,587

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I couldn't spoil her style any more than I could force you to take a single step in any direction other than where you were headed any way. You give me far too much credit.

1,588

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Anent Rebecca's review: I think your ending is just right.  It opens the Oh S**t valve as the curtain drops.

1,589

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Gotcha. Point taken.

1,590

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

On reflection, and rereading =The Secrets of Story=, the following occur to me:

Primus, that the great strength of =Acts= is that multiple problems and subgoals branch and rejoin.

Secundus, that the weakness of =Dictates= is that we follow a single jeopardy/quest thread all the way through.  (What if there were intimations that the problems had followed them into the Catacombs, and worries that the newly freed Taken were Part of The Problem?)

Tertius, that the problem with Mandates is that we don't have a strong enough reason for Kha to go on his journey, nor a sense of pieces coming together to create a new alignment apart frm Kha and Sil.  (And that part is brilliant.  PLEASE try not to sacrifice it.)  A shortened version of Kha's scene with his old friend telling the story might help, if you show us Kha recalling, against his will, what he has lost.

Of course, I'm finding similar hard questions for my owm story.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I'm thinking how this can be adapted, making Dictates more convoluted. I see your point and I agree. And I'm still mulling Mandates, trying to see how I'm going to adjust the story so that it doesn't have anything to do with the Earthwound, and everything to do with who is trying to kill Kha. I'm going to keep the relationship with Sil. And I'm going to steal Kha's pants at least one extra time.  I have to make sure that the reader realizes that he isn't old...just ill. And I have to make Airen less bitchy as well. (I softened her once, and it will likely do it again.)

Dictates will have more about the attempts on Jaylene's life. And I like the idea of her story involving more mystery and less exploration.

Points taken.

1,592

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Why drop Earthwound?  It seems like the precipitating event for the whole story, it links Kha and Jaylene, and the losses (of friends, health, and maybe power) are what's driving Kha right now.  What the Alina/Kat issue is for Anver, the losses can be for Kha.  Okay, maybe not quite the same--but they can fill the same hole.

Marion is another fascinating character.  Can you use backstory/history in the start of the story?

Here's the question that I think you need to ask at the start: What is driving Kha? What inner events?  What outer events?  What does he seek?  (Does he know?)  What would answer his need?

What is Kha's journey?  Given the character as he practically must exist, there are internal and external journeys.  He has to go from the Mage whose inner needs drive him from his Guildhouse home and job to the Mage who comes back and joins Anver in the Chronomancer's quarters.

Try answering these questions in short summary form.

As long as Airen is part of the story and a vivid character, this will be at least in part a Character story about Kha.

OF COURSE this has to mesh, zipperlike, with the adventures.  Does the attempt on his life make him value it?  Does the attempt on Sil's life make him value it more?

Don't soften Airen too much.

If you haven't, get a copy of The Secrets of Story and read the sections on Character(s).

Okay, IMO and YMMV.  Except that study assignment.

1,593

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

The Secrests of Story. Got it. Right now, I'm mulling a lot and not writing much. That edit took a lot more out of me than expected. I let myself read more. Now I need to restart the writing engine, and it is turning out to be harder than expected. I have a scene in my head with Geron, that shows his opinion about all of his Masters and the world he helped create. He needs to change his opinion about Kha, who was always passionate and mercurial, and realize that the pupil has become a man. (Not helped by the lack of aging, BTW). Since Geron deals with the baggage of Kha's daddy issues, this isn't a terribly easy proposition for me.

Eh, there is always reviewing to help with the recharge. Normy normy...I'm comin' to get you... And you'll be next, New Jersey.

A

1,594 (edited by njc 2017-02-01 13:20:32)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

When Jaylene's company meets Zylph (try Zylpf or Zlypf), it's rough on Tazar.  Does his submission reveal anything new?  Does it herald a change for better or worse?  Is it a chance to show 'Petra' either afraid for herself or overconfident?  Or to sneer (however softly) at Tazar, a threat she can't control?

Can 'Petra' damage a Sharing?

1,595 (edited by njc 2017-02-01 17:55:06)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I spent most of the night with Bird and my notes, and I've got a way to handle Erevain.  It won't make things shorter, but it might make things fit better.  I also have some thoughts on Merran's training and Melayne's suggestions on it.

And although I am quite fatigued, I'll try to lay out my Bird-inspired thoughts on Mandates.

Acts works because we identify with Anver from the get-go.  Why?  Because he has a problem that we can understand, and because we sympathize as well as empathize: He has to protect those kids--his family.  If we didn't have that, nothing would work, not even the threat of the whole world subjugated to the Defiler.

Why not?  Because we don't have to buy into the world.  And because once we buy into the protagonist, we buy into the protagonist's view of the dilemma.  Look at The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth and the whole solar system are destroyed in the first chapter, blasted out of the way to make room for a bypass off a Vogon skyway.  But we hardly care because we are invested in the two sky-hitch-hikers.

For Mandates to work, we have to buy into Kha, and we must buy into Kha's dilemma.  We have to have a sense of what that dilemma is, even if he doesn't quite know what it is.  What is it?  It's loss: Loss of power, loss of people he loves like family, loss of confidence in whatever ability he brought to the Wolves, loss of purpose, loss of--what?

(And I maintain that we need capsule descriptions and illustrations to bring those losses to the reader.)

Kha is flinty.  Airen is flinty.  Anver can be flinty.  Tilly can be flinty.  Kha needs Anver and Tilly, but he has somehow lost his sense of connection to the Guildhouse and its people.  He needs the flint not contaminated by his present life--that's Airen.  (And I think Airen should understand that Kha needs her to be flinty, though as an outsider, not through his eyes.)  And through his time with her, he finds Sil.  That moves the story to about where Acts is after Alina's death.

(And maybe Anver and Tilly aren't willing to be flinty to the recuperating Master, not understanding that the flint is what he needs to recover.  I can see him saying something like this to Airen.  God, you do characters well!)

Kha's love for Sil has to give him determination to save her when he might not have the determination to save himself.  And ... he's long-lived; she's as near to immortal as you'll find.  Without actually having Kha say it or think consciously about it, that ought to free him to love her wholeheartedly.  (Or did you already have this in mind?)

Most of my suggestions about how to open Mandates seem to fit this model.

And with all this in mind, maybe Mandates isn't the best title.

Now I'll get some sleep.

(Oh, an I right in thinking that Kha found comfort in Tazar's taciturnity?)

1,596 (edited by amy s 2017-02-02 04:36:04)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Kha liked the other Wolves for various reasons. Tazar's silence was a
major draw, as well as the quick decisions to trust or not trust. Kha admired Melody for her voice (his mother used to sing as she wove- it was part of her mystery as well as her majic.) and her complete disinterest in her beauty. Kha liked Airen because of her hunger for all and any knowlege as well as her willingness to get dirty and pull her weight.

Conleth made everybody laugh, but he had a dark side and would disappear now and then. Once he reappeared, there was never any reason given. Kha found out Con's secret, but he respected privacy and let Con reveal it in his own time. Besides, Kha always loved a good secret and Con's was a doozy.

Jaylene was everything that Kha wished he could be. She never quit, never complained about hardship, and she was capable of faith in a power greater than herself.

But the defining virtue in all is that they weren't in his field. It's why Kha persists in thinking of Anver as an underling. So far, no one has surpassed Kha in his specialty. And the Wolves were all experts in things he didn't want to learn about or didn't have enough time to learn. He never got into a stable relationship until Sil for the same reason...time and trust. That's why he used courtesans to scratch his itches. They were obliging, undemanding, and available whenever he was.

Then Sil came along and he knows her temper, her motivations, and her fears. Emotionally, they have no secrets. She has no games to play. And she is WAY out of his weight class as far as power goes, so he doesn't surpass her on the magic front. He met a dragon and she was his perfect woman.

And so I gave him what he wanted and so I'm going to make him fight for it.

And steal his pants. Can't forget that part.

1,597

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Don't worry that Kha's journey turns from the personal (loss AND the Earthwound mystery) into the cosmic problem.  Anver's journey changes, too, several times.  It's Rising Action, or Rising Jeopardy, snd ties nicely into The Mysteries of the Earthwound.

Now, if all this advice  is any good I will wish I  could do as we with my own story.

1,598

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Can the fourth book play the Airen-Kha-Marion chord?

1,599

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Kha and the sickness: if the sickness is killing him then he -has- to seek help.  But if it's not killing him and he -chooses- to seek help anyway, something is motivating him . . . and -that's- a story.  His personal search leads him to Sil, and then the Mysteries of the Earthwound come after him.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I"m mulling what you said. I agree that I have to have more antagonist involved in both Kha's and Jaylene's story. They ramble through the adventure and end up in the right place, but I'd like to make the villain bring about their own downfall, so a rewrite it is.

FYI, I ammended Chapter 46, when Geron closes the crypt. I had a scene in my head where he calls his students a pack of brats, of course including Kha in the epithet. And then he had to ask how Lucas/ Maalok got past the Guildhouse vow. Another character mucking up my life, but I found a way to get the answer across to him and kept it simple. And so, I had to give Alina one last hurrah. And the lieutenants blew their secret about the Battle Mage training (so Geron knows about this now). 

In all, I'm satisfied because I trimmed a loose end. Moving on. Lets see if this can jump start my writing. I'm finding that I have to flip a switch. Either I can write, or I can read/ revise. Not both. It's like they use the same part of my brain or something.