Topic: The evils of ing verbs?

Below is a great, short article on when to use ing verbs and when not to:
https://mythsofthemirror.com/2020/03/08 … n-fiction/

Until now I didn't even notice where I was doing it wrong. Admittedly, readers may not make the distinction either, but publishers very well may. In some cases, even when used correctly, it strengthens the writing when you avoid them.

The article also gives examples of when its okay to use them.

My thanks to Elysse for the push I needed to look into this in more detail.

Quote Post 1

Re: The evils of ing verbs?

Dirk B. wrote:

Below is a great, short article on when to use ing verbs and when not to:
https://mythsofthemirror.com/2020/03/08 … n-fiction/

Until now I didn't even notice where I was doing it wrong. Admittedly, readers may not make the distinction either, but publishers very well may. In some cases, even when used correctly, it strengthens the writing when you avoid them.

The article also gives examples of when its okay to use them.

My thanks to Elysse for the push I needed to look into this in more detail.

I just finished reading a thriller by Brad Thor, a bestselling novelist. He starts so many sentences with “ing” participles,  it is painful to read. Where are the editors?

Quote Post 2

Re: The evils of ing verbs?

From Reddit:
Q: How bad are '-ing' verbs?
A: They're so bad every published novel by popular authors is filled with them. smile

Quote Post 3

Re: The evils of ing verbs?

Anyone who asks that question doesn't understand participles vs. passives, gerunds vs. progressive aspect--in other words, doesn't know the English language verb system.

Quote Post 4

Re: The evils of ing verbs?

Dirk B. wrote:

From Reddit:
Q: How bad are '-ing' verbs?
A: They're so bad every published novel by popular authors is filled with them. smile

But it's a funny response and perhaps appropriate.

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Re: The evils of ing verbs?

It's really just some uses of ing verbs that are the problem.
Same is true for -ly adverbs; there's a tendency to use them to tell rather show, but if you know what you're doing, they're fine, especially in scenes or paragraphs where you want to pick up the pace, such as in a battle.
And let's not forget passive sentences. Sometimes it's absolutely the best way to write something (eg when the actor behind an action is unknown). It comes across as tortured writing to do otherwise.
The list goes on...

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Re: The evils of ing verbs?

Sadly, I've read of college English teachers who don't know the difference between a passive or a present progressive or a gerund.

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Re: The evils of ing verbs?

Jack the Knife wrote: I just finished reading a thriller by Brad Thor, a bestselling novelist. He starts so many sentences with “ing” participles, it is painful to read. Where are the editors?

When you have a huge fan base you don't need no stinkin' editors. smile

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Re: The evils of ing verbs?

jack the knife wrote:

I just finished reading a thriller by Brad Thor, a bestselling novelist. He starts so many sentences with “ing” participles,  it is painful to read. Where are the editors?

Replaced by AI. smile  After all, why not? Apparently AI can already write fiction. At some point, will AI-generated books rival human-written ones? Eventually, each person may have their own "instance" of an AI in the cloud, which they can then ask to generate a book for them matching whatever criteria they want. Why buy books if you can generate them on the fly?

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Re: The evils of ing verbs?

dagny wrote:

Jack the Knife wrote: I just finished reading a thriller by Brad Thor, a bestselling novelist. He starts so many sentences with “ing” participles, it is painful to read. Where are the editors?

When you have a huge fan base you don't need no stinkin' editors. smile

Well, he’s lost me as a reader.

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Re: The evils of ing verbs?

Grateful for this discussion. 
It's a challenge to write without them, I can see how and over abundance can annoy a reader, along with --ly words, the, to be verb, and hads, though I've not read anything that I can recall about the latter.  One of my favorite authors uses way to many hads, and though I love her stories, the page is so full of them, that's almost all I can see on rereads, kind of takes the joy out of rereading. 

The publishing industry from what I gather makes and changes the rules.  After all, if you read many of the great literary classics, they're full of what's considered now, prohibitive.

Thanks for taking the time to investigate, Dirk.  It's been on my "To Do" list.

All the best--E. smile

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12 Reply by George FLC (edited by George FLC 2024-06-05 14:05:36)

Re: The evils of ing verbs?

I put Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg address into Grammarly. Sorry, Abe. You only get a score of 85. Two -ly adverbs and 5 -ing verbs! And comma issues.

Granted there were different versions, but this one was the only one with his signature.

Opening sentence:
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Corrected by Grammarly:
Four hundred and seven years ago, our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation conceived in Liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

I prefer the original line. Go Abe!

Quote Post 12

13 Reply by dagny (edited by dagny 2024-06-05 16:38:29)

Re: The evils of ing verbs?

Jack the Knife wrote:
Well, he’s lost me as a reader.

Jack--
It's the age-old argument: Style vs plot. Lots of authors I read have writing styles I personally can't stand, but their plots are excellent. And authors that have a great writing style but terrible plots. The trick is reading them until you can't anymore.
smile

Quote Post 13

14 Reply by njc

Re: The evils of ing verbs?

Would someone who's actually involved with Grammarly (-ly constduction there!) please feed it Strunk's "Vigorous writing is concise" paragraph and see what kind of coffee the civet cat produces?

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15 Reply by dagny (edited by dagny 2024-06-05 21:06:21)

Re: The evils of ing verbs?

George FLC wrote:

I put Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg address into Grammarly. Sorry, Abe. You only get a score of 85. Two -ly adverbs and 5 -ing verbs! And comma issues.

Granted there were different versions, but this one was the only one with his signature.

Opening sentence:
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Corrected by Grammarly:
Four hundred and seven years ago, our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation conceived in Liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

I prefer the original line. Go Abe!

In Lincoln's defense, he wrote the Gettysburg Address on the back on an envelope on the train ride there.
smile

Quote Post 15

Re: The evils of ing verbs?

dagny wrote:

Jack the Knife wrote:
Well, he’s lost me as a reader.

Jack--
It's the age-old argument: Style vs plot. Lots of authors I read have writing styles I personally can't stand, but their plots are excellent. And authors that have a great writing style but terrible plots. The trick is reading them until you can't anymore.
smile

To each his own, Dags.

Quote Post 16

Re: The evils of ing verbs?

George FLC wrote:

I put Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg address into Grammarly.

Opening sentence:
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Corrected by Grammarly:
Four hundred and seven years ago, our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation conceived in Liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Technically, Grammarly is correct by modern standards, but Abe may very well have inserted the comma after Liberty intentionally to create a pause (it's a speech, not fiction after all), or that comma is the result of a jolt in the train while he wrote it. smile

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18 Reply by njc (edited by njc 2024-06-06 01:43:44)

Re: The evils of ing verbs?

njc wrote:

Would someone who's actually involved with Grammarly (-ly constduction there!) please feed it Strunk's "Vigorous writing is concise" paragraph and see what kind of coffee the civet cat produces?

Another interesting test would be the first couple of pages of Volume 1 of Manchester's =The Last Lion=, which may be found here: https://ethanrussell.com/americanstory/?p=4030 .

In case you're wondering about civet cat coffee, it's called kopi luwak and appears briefly in the story =Directionally Challenged= in the collection =Your Honor, I Can Explain= (Volume 1 of the Andrew Spurgle Chronicles)

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