1 Topic by Dirk B. (edited by Dirk B. 2019-07-07 22:33:37)

Topic: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

My current WIP is a Catholic-oriented tale of the Apocalypse. Since it's mainly targeted at Catholics, and to a lesser extent other Christians, I'm not particularly afraid of using Biblical references, including prayers. I currently have two prayers in scene one, and I'm thinking of adding a third. The one I have in mind is psalm 120, but it goes on and on. Since three prayers in one scene is a lot (confirmed by one of my reviewers), I had thought to just mention that Father Romano prays the psalm for protection and then be done with it. However, I've since decided I don't like skipping prayers that I mention explicitly such as the psalm. I'd like to include the actual prayer, but cherry pick what the priest says. He essentially speaks a "new" prayer by incorporating the most relevant parts of the psalm. Once whittled down, each prayer will be only a few sentences (at most a paragraph), which doesn't seem excessive for a Christian novel.

Thoughts?

Thanks
Dirk

Quote Post 1

2 Reply by Dirk B. (edited by Dirk B. 2019-01-09 10:40:42)

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Correction. Psalm 140 - Prayer for Deliverance from Enemies.

Quote Post 2

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Why can't you simply have him quote a few words from the prayer, throw in an ellipsis followed by some type action, etc. and then speak a few more words to end the prayer. Repeat as necessary. Take care. Vern

Quote Post 3

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Thanks, Vern. That's probably my best shot. I'll have to see how it reads once written.

Quote Post 4

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

I don’t know how people would feel about making a new prayer from the old ones. Verns idea is good but may look/read weird in practice. How long are we talking about? Also 3 prayers in a single chapter is a lot, but how are they spaced through the chapters? Is there a place where I can read the chapters you haven’t put up yet so I could take a closer look?

Quote Post 5

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

It has been revealed by the noted theosophical scholar, Emo Phillips, the one true faith of the Christian religion is now certainly the Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council 0f 1912 whose King Bubba Bible begins Psalm 140: Deliver me, O Lord, from the evil man: preserve me from Trump.

Quote Post 6

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Will, people work Bible quotes into their novels all the time, although mostly as simple phrases (e.g. turn the other cheek) without including the whole quote. Nevertheless, that's a great question for my Catholic forum. My second prayer borrows from Jesus's prayer to the Father before his arrest in Gethsemane.

On a related note, someone in the forums pointed out that most (all?) modern Bibles are copyrighted and some charge royalties. Some  book publishers shy away from certain Bibles for just that reason. I may have to write a few letters to Bible publishers before settling on a final version. One of them (can't remember which) allows limited quoting (e.g. 500 short quotes). My preferred source of Bible quotes is the New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition. Say that three times really quickly.

Quote Post 7

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

It has been revealed by the noted theosophical scholar, Emo Phillips, the one true faith of the Christian religion is now certainly the Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council 0f 1912 whose King Bubba Bible begins Psalm 140: Deliver me, O Lord, from the evil man: preserve me from Trump.

LOL Unfortunately for you, it is too late to preserve you from Trump (aka Putin's Puppet or Pee Pee for short); well, that is until the pathological liar fires himself from office. But you served him well. Hey, maybe you can tell Pee Pee how to get Mexico to pay for his Great Big Beautiful Wall. Take care. Vern

Quote Post 8

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Dirk B. wrote:

Will, people work Bible quotes into their novels all the time, although mostly as simple phrases (e.g. turn the other cheek) without including the whole quote. Nevertheless, that's a great question for my Catholic forum. My second prayer borrows from Jesus's prayer to the Father before his arrest in Gethsemane.

On a related note, someone in the forums pointed out that most (all?) modern Bibles are copyrighted and some charge royalties. Some  book publishers shy away from certain Bibles for just that reason. I may have to write a few letters to Bible publishers before settling on a final version. One of them (can't remember which) allows limited quoting (e.g. 500 short quotes). My preferred source of Bible quotes is the New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition. Say that three times really quickly.

How about quoting directly from King James bible? That one shouldn't be copyrighted, should it?

Kiss

Gacela

Quote Post 9

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

vern wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:

It has been revealed by the noted theosophical scholar, Emo Philips, the one true faith of the Christian religion is now certainly the Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council 0f 1912 whose King Bubba Bible begins Psalm 140: Deliver me, O Lord, from the evil man: preserve me from Trump.

LOL Unfortunately for you, it is too late to preserve you from Trump (aka Putin's Puppet or Pee Pee for short); well, that is until the pathological liar fires himself from office. But you served him well. Hey, maybe you can tell Pee Pee how to get Mexico to pay for his Great Big Beautiful Wall. Take care. Vern

Would that my words were true or a genuine expression of opinion for any reasonable person, any reply true or false might apply, but I keep to  the absurdity and vapid content of this thread and its genesis, viz., Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421 (1962), for, in part, the wording of any prayer from the same source, The Bible, is not the same according to Jew, Catholic or Protestant, nor certainly to any atheist who will deny its divine origin whether that be opinion or statement of fact which is relevant.

Quote Post 10

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
vern wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:

It has been revealed by the noted theosophical scholar, Emo Philips, the one true faith of the Christian religion is now certainly the Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council 0f 1912 whose King Bubba Bible begins Psalm 140: Deliver me, O Lord, from the evil man: preserve me from Trump.

LOL Unfortunately for you, it is too late to preserve you from Trump (aka Putin's Puppet or Pee Pee for short); well, that is until the pathological liar fires himself from office. But you served him well. Hey, maybe you can tell Pee Pee how to get Mexico to pay for his Great Big Beautiful Wall. Take care. Vern

Would that my words were true or a genuine expression of opinion for any reasonable person, any reply true or false might apply, but I keep to  the absurdity and vapid content of this thread and its genesis, viz., Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421 (1962), for, in part, the wording of any prayer from the same source, The Bible, is not the same according to Jew, Catholic or Protestant, nor certainly to any atheist who will deny its divine origin whether that be opinion or statement of fact which is relevant.

http://www.assignmentpoint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Delusional-Disorder-1.jpg

Quote Post 11

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Temple Wang wrote:

/Delusional-Disorder-1.jpg

Oh, look at the delusional ESL student thinking she understands the English language yet.

Quote Post 12

13 Reply by Temple Wang (edited by Temple Wang 2019-01-10 11:02:16)

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
Temple Wang wrote:

/Delusional-Disorder-1.jpg

Oh, look at the delusional ESL student thinking she understands the English language yet.

Seriously?  That’s all you got?   The sandbox “I'm rubber, you're glue” riposte?   Seriously, Chuck, with that big “a-brain” of yours, I expected more.  What’s next — “Sticks and stones ...?  “Nanny-nanny-boo-boo...?” Or maybe a juvenile ditty from your mentor:  “I’m not the puppet; you’re the puppet.”

Jeesh ...you’re slipping, Chuck ...

PS:  You might check out Clairedeplume’s latest submission.  I read it and thought only of you .... https://www.thenextbigwriter.com/postin … thon-25606

Quote Post 13

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Temple Wang wrote:

/Delusional-Disorder-1.jpg

Oh, look at the delusional ESL student thinking she understands the English language yet.

Seriously?  That’s all you got?

  It comes down to your posting an irrelevant-to the-topic ad-hominem picture (evidently  because English words, grammar, syntax, and contextual meaning still come hard to you), and I respond with relevant fact concerning your feeble capability to perform on TNBW.

Quote Post 14

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
vern wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:

It has been revealed by the noted theosophical scholar, Emo Philips, the one true faith of the Christian religion is now certainly the Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council 0f 1912 whose King Bubba Bible begins Psalm 140: Deliver me, O Lord, from the evil man: preserve me from Trump.

LOL Unfortunately for you, it is too late to preserve you from Trump (aka Putin's Puppet or Pee Pee for short); well, that is until the pathological liar fires himself from office. But you served him well. Hey, maybe you can tell Pee Pee how to get Mexico to pay for his Great Big Beautiful Wall. Take care. Vern

Would that my words were true or a genuine expression of opinion for any reasonable person, any reply true or false might apply, but I keep to  the absurdity and vapid content of this thread and its genesis, viz., Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421 (1962), for, in part, the wording of any prayer from the same source, The Bible, is not the same according to Jew, Catholic or Protestant, nor certainly to any atheist who will deny its divine origin whether that be opinion or statement of fact which is relevant.

Quote Post 15

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Mariana Reuter wrote:
Dirk. B. wrote:

On a related note, someone in the forums pointed out that most (all?) modern Bibles are copyrighted and some charge royalties. Some  book publishers shy away from certain Bibles for just that reason. I may have to write a few letters to Bible publishers before settling on a final version. One of them (can't remember which) allows limited quoting (e.g. 500 short quotes). My preferred source of Bible quotes is the New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition. Say that three times really quickly.

How about quoting directly from King James bible? That one shouldn't be copyrighted, should it?

Kiss

Gacela

Thanks, Gacela, but the King James Bible is a Protestant Bible. A heavily Catholic novel needs Catholic Bible quotes.

Fortunately, I got a few suggestions above to experiment with before this thread went of the rails (as always). Small wonder no one uses the forums anymore.

Quote Post 16

17 Reply by Temple Wang (edited by Temple Wang 2019-01-10 12:28:11)

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
Temple Wang wrote:

/Delusional-Disorder-1.jpg

Oh, look at the delusional ESL student thinking she understands the English language yet.

Seriously?  That’s all you got?

  It comes down to your posting an irrelevant-to the-topic ad-hominem picture (evidently  because English words, grammar, syntax, and contextual meaning still come hard to you), and I respond with relevant fact concerning your feeble capability to perform on TNBW.

Aww, Chuck ...  You big brute, you.  You’re such a tease. *blushes*
Seriously, you gotta start writing shorter sentences with smaller words, ‘cause I just don’t have a clue what your trying to say, hon.  But I applaud your effort. Have you ever tried utilizing your “sense of humor” organ or has that one atrophied from disuse as well?

LOL

Quote Post 17

18 Reply by Dirk B. (edited by Dirk B. 2019-01-10 15:19:47)

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

How about this?

Romano’s heart pounded and he trembled. He kneeled, crossed himself, and prayed one of King David’s psalms. “Deliver us, O Lord, from evildoers; protect us from those who are violent, who plan evil things in their minds and stir up wars continually.” The psalm contained a full thirteen verses, but it calmed Romano as he continued to pray. “O Lord, my Lord, my strong deliverer, you have covered my head in the day of battle. Do not grant, O Lord, the desires of the wicked; do not further their evil plot.” Romano sighed deeply as he spoke the final verses. “I know that the Lord maintains the cause of the needy, and executes justice for the poor. Surely the righteous shall give thanks to your name; the upright shall live in your presence. Amen.”

The only change I made is to convert references of me to us, since he's praying to protect the whole orphanage, and I cherry-picked parts of the psalm.

Quote Post 18

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Or this:

Romano’s heart pounded and he trembled. He kneeled, crossed himself, and prayed King David’s Psalm 140, beginning with, “Deliver us, O Lord, from evildoers; protect us from those who are violent, who plan evil things in their minds and stir up wars continually,” and ending with, “Surely the righteous shall give thanks to your name; the upright shall live in your presence. Amen.”

Quote Post 19

20 Reply by Dirk B. (edited by Dirk B. 2019-01-10 16:38:16)

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Or this:

Romano’s heart pounded and he trembled. He kneeled, crossed himself, and prayed King David’s Psalm 140 for protection of the orphanage from evil. The psalm calmed him.

Quote Post 20

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Temple Wang wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:
Temple Wang wrote:

/Delusional-Disorder-1.jpg



Seriously?  That’s all you got?

  It comes down to your posting an irrelevant-to the-topic ad-hominem picture (evidently  because English words, grammar, syntax, and contextual meaning still come hard to you), and I respond with relevant fact concerning your feeble capability to perform on TNBW.

Aww, Chuck ...  You big brute, you.  You’re such a tease. *blushes*
Seriously, you gotta start writing shorter sentences with smaller words, ‘cause I just don’t have a clue what your trying to say, hon.  But I applaud your effort. Have you ever tried utilizing your “sense of humor” organ or has that one atrophied from disuse as well?

LOL

Would it be possible for Temple Wang and Charles F Bell to discuss their differences in a separate forum rather than on every public thread within the TNBW? It's kinda annoying that every thread ends up with their trying to prove who's more witty.

Kiss,

Gacela

Quote Post 21

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Yeah wow that went crazy. Can't we all be civil? I'm sure our views are different but name calling is just not mature at all.

Back to the subject of bible verses:

If people use it in books a lot (I wouldn't know) then I would say you're good just following the trend, it seems to work. I can also say as a Catholic it doesn't bother me if things are shorthanded, we get the jist. sometimes the whole thing isn't necessary. Looking forward to the next chapter though!

Quote Post 22

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

Will/Temple, which of the three choices above do you prefer?

Thanks
Dirk

Quote Post 23

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

I'll go for the second one. Not to long, not too short.

The first one is longer. You don't want readers to skip the psalm only because it's too long. The second one is short enough for ther reader to read it, getting the message you want to convey. The third one is uselss. Few readers will get their bibles and check the psalm 140, besides, you're scene will loses punch without, at least, the main words of the psalm, those that convey the message you want to be conveyed.

Kiss,
Gacela

Quote Post 24

25 Reply by Temple Wang (edited by Temple Wang 2019-01-10 22:32:31)

Re: How best to handle large Bible quotes? - Writing Craft

You asked, so I assume you want the unvarnished truth that is me ...

I think you have a tendency to bog down your narratives with irrelevant (to the reader) details, killing your pace.  It’s a “thriller” first and foremost (if it’s not, well, then you’re ostensibly writing for yourself, and if that’s the case, it doesn’t much matter). You are also trying to build tension. Quickest way to fail at that is to put in stuff that pulls the reader out of the fictive dream (to look for a Bible or to call to memory something).  To succeed, keep short beats, don’t use passive structures, take out all unnecessary words, save the wordcount for something else.  So, I’d strip it down, move on, and find something else to wring your hands over ...

There are several derivatives possible from these options, depending on how spare you want to be.

Romano trembled.  His heart pounded. He knelt and prayed. [“Deliver us, O Lord, from evildoers; protect us ...”]
Cut out the part in brackets to be even leaner.

OR

Romano’s heart pounded. His clasped hands trembled as he knelt and prayed [for] the Lord [to] protect the orphanage from evil. [“Deliver us, O Lord, from evildoers; protect us ...”]
Cut out the part in brackets to be even leaner.

Quote Post 25