Suggestion for inline review points (Page 1 of 3)

I'm not convinced that is strictly true. But I do find myself sometimes coming up with less than 5 comments on a short chapter. Then I'm faced with either trying to put them into a standard review or finding other things to highlight that aren't necessary to make the 5. That isn't really fair to the author.

What I would like to see is something like a ratio of necessary comments to length of the post. If it is under, say, 500 words, then only 2 comments, but if over 2500, then perhaps 6 or 7 comments to make the points. That way, you could still get a fixed amount of points for a post, but only have to come up with 2 to N comments.

~Tom

Another possibility is to count the length of the final comments.  Just 50 words are needed in an out-line review.  Maybe counting 30 words in the final comment as one inline will allow reviewers to meet the minimum with global analysis.

Oh, I don't know, what about providing a decent review in hopes you might receive one in return or merely to be helpful to the author. As stated earlier, if they only want points there is no incentive to go on period and they will do the very minimum. The shorter work offers less points, the longer work offers more points so they can decide whether they prefer to put their best foot forward or give short shift merely for the points.

That is simply not so. How many times do you need to be told that a longer work provides more points; you review 400 words you get less points than if you review 1000 words and you get even more points as you move up the ladder length.

As a matter of fact I have, but that just points to "half" of reviewers who are merely in it for the points, not to give the best review they can. If the reviewer is serious about giving a good review, then they will review to the end; if not, they will probably get the same in return or none at all. You develop relationships by giving your best, not a mere minimum.

Yes, I have, but that merely points to the half which is in it more for the points than rendering a complete helpful review. And that is not the way to create a reviewing relationship and will more than likely be repaid in kind. If the reviewer wants to do a half-ass job, they are going to do it whether it is a long piece or a short piece. They will do the minimum required and the points received will be reflected in the length of the piece reviewed with the longer receiving more points than the shorter. They can simply decide if they want to review more works or longer works to accumulate points - shorter=less points, longer=more points.

Changing the system to accrue points is not going to change their behavior in giving the minimum to get by. And it won't alter the fact that most authors will recognize the minimum effort and take that into account in any reciprocal relationship; they may follow suit or they may stick to their principles and give their best effort regardless. Take care. Vern

As far as the number of comments trailing off as you get to the middle of a chapter:  There are several reasons.  One is that the reviewer is simply getting tired.  Another is that the reviewer has played the same tune in many places, and it is of little benefit to the author to keep pounding.  When I cut off for this reason, I say so and offer to come back if the author wants me to continue.

Another reason is that the chapter is really, really good and the reviewer has stopped reading as a reviewer and is reading as a reader.  In rare cases, this happens.  The author should be pleased when it does, although it does mean that nits get missed.

And, finally, there is the reviewer doing a cheap review for points.  I can only suggest that authors bank some points so they don't have to rush to get points to post their chapters.

Yes, I understand that. But a "society" which is exclusionary as you suggest is deadly, and I might add not profitable in a business venture unless the price of admission is deliberately set high, for increased revenue and snob appeal.

There is value to bringing in opinion from people who are not online friends, for those friendly reviews can end up as if having your mother read your stuff. There is a negative flipside to established recip. reviews in perhaps not getting frank, blunt honest reviews, and, let me add, those who are so used to friendly, smooth-over-the-bluntness reviews react irrationally to blunt and to-the-point comments that are not intended to be "mean."  It's like the kids who are so used to getting their participation awards for just showing up.

Be that as it may, I brought up the suggestion for everyone's benefit even if it may apply differently from person to person.

I agree that a tweak would be good, but it's nice when the point system is there to remind us of our obligations, not to have us scurrying desperately for points.  It's nice when your have communities of people who enjoy the task of reviewing each  others' work--and care enough about the other to do it conscientiously.

I'm not criticizing it at all; I recognize that no system is perfect, yours included. We could all probably come up with some new idea for a points system (many suggestions have been made over the years on this and the old site) but to accommodate all the variations would be costly and cumbersome to say the least and still someone would come up with another novel idea.

Your assumption that the point system would be irrelevant if people wanted to provide decent reviews doesn't hold up. Since folks must accrue points in order to post, that requires people to review and thus the incentive to give a good review to attract them in kind. Otherwise, with no points required, most authors would simply publish their work with little or no reviewing for others.  No, a strict reciprocal relationship is not required in this situation to gain reviews or points, but it certainly helps the cause. I personally - and I've stated this many times over the years - do not practice a strict reciprocal relationship. I have received reviews for an entire novel with little or no reciprocation and have reviewed several entire novels with little or no reciprocation. That being said, it is advantageous, especially for new authors, to build those reciprocal relationships.

A short story with virtually no point value can still draw reviews under this system if it is enticing. I published a three word short story with zero points - http://www.thenextbigwriter.com/posting … story-9764 - on the old site and it received "many" well thought out reviews. Yes, it would be impractical for an in-line review, but then that's what the regular review is for. Anyone who is motivated can come up with fifty words to respond to even your proposed one word story/chapter/page/whatever. BTW, the one word on a page was used in A Million Little Pieces and became a bestseller after being reviewed on Oprah - not her best moment.

The points are not always the deciding factor; it has more to do with what is written and how it is presented. If you simply want a "Good idea" or "Bad idea" you can ask for it in the forums and probably get quite a few responses. It's been done many times by different people.

See last comment. If a piece is that short, you use a little common sense and the regular review; surely anyone motivated can come up with fifty words as previously stated. If you simply want a yes or no, then tell your reviewers to fill in with gibberish to reach the minimum - a quick copy and paste should do without having to change the whole system.

Everyone is a newbie when they start. The vast majority of us managed to receive reviews from the beginning because of the system. New members are a good way to build further relationships if they are desired/needed. The bonus points received for the first three reviews also encourages reviewing newer members since they are the most likely not to have three or more reviews in the short term, or long. You also have members who review without ever publishing. A request in the forums might also point them to an author's work and if successful and you are short on reviewing time, you don't have to reciprocate since they have nothing to review. Additionally, some reviewers post in the forums looking for works to review; you simply have to ask.

So, obviously you don't need a network of reciprocation to be successful on this site, but it makes it a whole lot easier if you go to the trouble of building one. For long timers (myself included), most have accumulated more points than they'll probably use and yet continue to review because it is a valuable tool in it's own right and they enjoy it, getting to read a lot of original stories and possibly having a hand in their success. That's not a bad deal at all.  Take care. Vern

PS: Edited to add link to three word short story.

I was suggesting an improvement to the point system for those who generally rely on that rather than virtual friends. You can say Yes; or No; or Can't be done; or I don't care. You answer with the last one.

Without proportionality of inline comments to the number of words, even if the longer chapter takes and gives more points,  the reviewer can do as little work as on shorter chapters to get more points. 5 is 5 regardless whether the chapter is 1000 words or 4000 words.

Why do you insist on criticism of the points system?  As I said before, you can always hate the point system and shut up - "don't care", but you have not taken my suggestion and insist on this bashing of the point system. Should I complain  to Sol?. This is annoying.

On the other hand, I can see an advantage to increasing incentive for appreciating the point system in that even more points are awarded for more input. If you'd like to step down out of the point system you may, of course, if you think it adds nothing to the reviewing process, the system failing you and all, and you wanting to complain, complain, complain about a system people "take advantage of" in your words.

Sure, on a practical level, anything I have to say will have no effect on Sol & Co. I am, however, interested in others' motives and approaches and attitudes. That is the grist to chew on for fiction, or rather the sort of absurdist fiction I imagine. Perhaps not as the real absurdity of the Keystone Cops in Syria, so perhaps  good will come of it. I miss Empress Wu since she returned to her palace.