3 2015-10-22 15:32:12 (edited by j p lundstrom 2015-10-22 22:44:00)
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When I first started writing I made a poster of these words (and more) that were to be avoided and hung it on the office wall. I soon found I couldn't write, because I kept trying to avoid the words on the list, and that took more effort than telling the story. Even though the article starts out by saying this is a process best applied during the editing phase of writing, it tends to make one nervous about word choice. I finally took the poster down and just started writing what I felt. I'm doing much better now, I think.
If there weren't a use for these words in the language, they would never have come into being. There are times when they are needed, and we shouldn't have to worry about using them. I would say to write what you feel--it flows more naturally, I think--then let a reader point out those things that seem repetitive or superfluous. It's hard to edit your own work.
I believe, with experience, we tend to write better sentences and make better word choices. It's true you need to practice, practice, practice to get to Carnegie Hall.
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It's best to look at that list AFTER the first draft. The same thing was happening to me. So, rather than be paralyzed by fear, I wrote from the heart. It IS an excellent guideline while editing, however.
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It's best to look at that list AFTER the first draft. The same thing was happening to me. So, rather than be paralyzed by fear, I wrote from the heart. It IS an excellent guideline while editing, however.
...just sayin'
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I totally agree with you, JP!
If you get so bogged down with trying to avoid certain words, you never get your novel started!
But we all have lists of words we over use and should keep an eye out for them while editing. My personal bane is "come". I will use it everywhere, especially dialogue. When first editing the Beast of Caer Baddan a couple of years ago, I deleted over a hundred extraneous "come"s! And that was after I had take a whole bunch out already!
However, we have to be careful about cutting words that are actually needed. Certain words change the meaning of a sentence, so if you take them out, you can confuse the readers and given an incorrect picture of the events. If a character says to another, "Sit." it is rude, as if he(she) is treating another person like a dog. We do not talk to other people that way. Even if it is prefaced with "Please". "Please sit," is still incorrect. The character speaking would be immediately categorized as a bully (for "sit") or a social ignoramus (for "please sit"). Probably not what we were after. We say "Sit down," to people, even if it is an order, and thus so should our characters.
Also, one man's cures is another's blessing. He says to take out "then" and replace with "and", yet I have read a lot of novels that are filled to over capacity with "and"s. It would be a disservice to those writers to be advised to remove one of their few "then"s in place of an over used "and".
We have to be very careful about giving advice.
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Best to write drunk, rather than tired. That gives me an idea... yes, there is peach schnapps left, after all. Excellent.
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Great article and comments.
My first "check" is before I post a chapter to TNBW, but like others have mentioned, I also try not to focus on things like this while I'm writing. I also read the article as not necessarily saying to delete all these words and never use them, but if you do, to do so sparingly.
Thanks for sharing Janet - I've recognised a few words I tend to use too much.
9 2015-10-23 02:53:27 (edited by njc 2015-10-23 02:55:37)
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Narrative is not dialogue, nor dialogue narrative. Word choice in dialogue reflects many things, including character voice, state of mind, dialect and idiom, relationship between persons, circumstances, and others I can't think of right now.
Words that should be eschewed in narrative have a place in dialogue, representing state of mind, and other things besides.
Narrative for 3P close can be tinged by the character's voice as well.
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Best to write drunk, rather than tired. That gives me an idea... yes, there is peach schnapps left, after all. Excellent.
Share?
Oddly enough, I do my best writing when I'm on the verge of exhaustion and pumped full of sugar and/or caffeine. Also, I must have music and it must be loud.
If you get so bogged down with trying to avoid certain words, you never get your novel started!
I completely agree. I'll avoid certain words just a little bit when I'm writing, but it's when I reach the editing stage that I rummage through and hack at all those pesky 'had's and 'that's.
11 2015-10-23 09:37:34 (edited by Charles_F_Bell 2015-10-23 09:38:27)
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However, we have to be careful about cutting words that are actually needed. Certain words change the meaning of a sentence, so if you take them out, you can confuse the readers and given an incorrect picture of the events. If a character says to another, "Sit." it is rude, as if he(she) is treating another person like a dog. We do not talk to other people that way. (
Yes, phrases like "stand up" ; "look down at the floor" exist in real life and have existed since modern English was very young. Looking through a logic prism at what people actually say against what they should say is not logical.
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Those Angela Ackerman books, The Emotion Thesaurus; The Negative Trait Thesaurus; The Positive Trait Thesaurus, look very interesting. Thanks for this article.
14 2015-10-23 12:43:02 (edited by Dill Carver 2015-10-23 12:54:12)
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Best to write drunk, rather than tired. That gives me an idea... yes, there is peach schnapps left, after all. Excellent.
Drunk on Peach Schnapps? There's either a book title or a very sad disorder in that. I'm not sure which?
Stand up for Whisky, Vodka, Beer, a nice Cabernet Sauvignon or Riesling. Peach Schnapps is a poodle in the wolf pack, surely? No worse a writer than a fruity-breathed drunkard. It could turn out very badly, ending up in poetry.
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Charles has a point. There's a difference between deleting those words from narrative and from dialogue, which naturally includes them.
16 2015-10-23 14:15:22 (edited by Rebecca Vaughn 2015-10-23 14:18:42)
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My point was not to include or exclude dialogue. It was to show the importance of seemingly worthless words.
I have had to tell authors to insert "that" in certain places in sentences in the narration because the meaning was obscured by lack of the "extra" word. In many of these cases the author had originally included the missing "that" but then removed it on advice of another person who was hell bent on cutting "that"s.
I'm not trying to make an exception of dialogue, but to show the need for us think about what we deem expendable.
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I'm reading a Lee Child book now. If all his "was" words were highlighted, the page would look like a sheet of polka dots! Okay, he's a bestseller, and I would never submit a MS to a publisher written in that fashion, but it serves as a counterpoint to all the supposed axiomatic rules of writing. Rebecca, I'm curious about your "come" bane. Can you give an example of how you tend to overuse that word?
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Oooh. Poetry. Ick. I'll turn it into a fuzzy navel. Husband says I'm a cheap date, so... I'll start pouring.
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I had a lot of sentences like
"Come now, Prince! Out with it!"
"Come, come," she laughed. "Do not think like that."
"Come on. You really cannot say that for sure."
These sentences read the same as
"Be not shy here, Prince! Out with it!"
"Oh, do not think like that," she laughed.
"But you cannot say that for sure."
I killed four "come"s and no meaning was sacrificed.
20 2015-10-23 20:43:21 (edited by ronald quark 2015-10-23 20:44:04)
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Listening to advice like this is the best way to generify ones work. The use of any given word depends on style. Arbitrarily demonizing this or that word and sentencing them to genocide is the work of a robot, not a writer.
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Charles has a point. There's a difference between deleting those words from narrative and from dialogue, which naturally includes them.
I write my narrative the way we would naturally tell a story. No words are banned, although I try to mix it up a little. Don't get me started on "stand up" and "sit down". I use them quite freely.
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Thanks, Rebecca. I can see your issue, now. I guess we each have our own demons to expunge.
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jack the knife wrote:Charles has a point. There's a difference between deleting those words from narrative and from dialogue, which naturally includes them.
I write my narrative the way we would naturally tell a story. No words are banned, although I try to mix it up a little. Don't get me started on "stand up" and "sit down". I use them quite freely.
Assume the upright position. Fold yourself into that chair. Kinda silly, I agree.
24 2015-10-23 22:40:17 (edited by vern 2015-10-23 23:16:39)
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I had a lot of sentences like
"Come now, Prince! Out with it!"
"Come, come," she laughed. "Do not think like that."
"Come on. You really cannot say that for sure."
These sentences read the same as
"Be not shy here, Prince! Out with it!"
"Oh, do not think like that," she laughed.
"But you cannot say that for sure."
I killed four "come"s and no meaning was sacrificed.
Perhaps no meaning is lost, but unless your writing is set in some other time and place where everyone talks like a drunk barb, what you have substituted is not all natural speech and it will surely sound out of place to the reader; at least to this one. There are no concrete rules for writing and if you impose such on yourself, well, then you're going to have pretty stiff dialogue imho. Take care. Vern
Edited for PS: Just one other teensy tidbit: You can't "laugh" conversation. You can laugh at it or with it, and you can even try to laugh at the same time, but you can't (cannot if you prefer) laugh the dialogue itself. Of course that is not set in concrete as a rule either since you can write anything you wish and keep those commas instead of periods, technically correct or not. Just a thought.
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My point was not to include or exclude dialogue. It was to show the importance of seemingly worthless words.
Seemingly worthless words itself is worthless -- it's all about getting the message across, and there are some words on the standard DELETE list eliciting (or is it that elicit?) no negative reaction from a reader.
On the other hand, I don't hear much complaint here on TNBW about seemingly worthless plot extensions, descriptions, and physical and character traits.