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janet reid wrote:dagnee wrote:I am so glad to know you got it fixed! However, because you said you got a virus I started a thread in the main forum about using remote tech companies, I use a good one, who could fix your computer just by taking it over. It's a subscription like an anti virus program, only along with the anti virus software you get tech support anytime you need it. That means less trips to the computer guy.
Boy, did I get blow back on that!! Even though the company I recommended has 3 million customers and is used world wide, people warned me about letting just anyone remotely control my computer. I shrugged it off, I got the same kind of advice when I started to buy stuff online: What? You gave your debit card number to Amazon??? ARE YOU CRAZY?? Don't you know what will happen? Nothing happened and as time passed those who objected found out how easy it was to shop, pay bills and monitor your bank account online was.
Remote control techs are the future...we'll just have to deal with it!
I still have to reply on that one. I get calls from "Microsoft" every other day to help my "fix" my problems and I'm not subscribed to any remote control tech support, so that happening to Jack I think was just coincidence in my opinion.
But hey Dags, everyone has an opinion, so we just have to deal with it! LOL
They call me too and I don't own a PC. All MAC BABY!
CJ
dagnee wrote:j p lundstrom wrote:dagnee wrote:To quote Janet: Another one of my pet hates is when reviewers try and rewrite your whole chapter to match their writing style -
I ignore reviewers who correct the grammar in my characters dialog. We don't all use correct grammar when we speak and neither do our characters.
Generally, I think if someone rewrites huge swaths of your material, that review needs to be ignored. It's called a review not a rewrite. 
I'm back! Computer healed of all viruses by mystical laying-on of hands by my gifted son-in-law. The boy has twinkle-fingers.
Anyhow, I agree with Dags. I complained about re-writers in the old site forums and never heard from those folks again. And you should have seen all the corrections people wanted me to make to "Basil and the Tomato," after the countless times I went over the story to eliminate good grammar and make sure the speaker's errors were consistent throughout! You don't know how hard it is to write ungrammatically until you try it. That's one way you give your characters character. JP
I am so glad to know you got it fixed! However, because you said you got a virus I started a thread in the main forum about using remote tech companies, I use a good one, who could fix your computer just by taking it over. It's a subscription like an anti virus program, only along with the anti virus software you get tech support anytime you need it. That means less trips to the computer guy.
Boy, did I get blow back on that!! Even though the company I recommended has 3 million customers and is used world wide, people warned me about letting just anyone remotely control my computer. I shrugged it off, I got the same kind of advice when I started to buy stuff online: What? You gave your debit card number to Amazon??? ARE YOU CRAZY?? Don't you know what will happen? Nothing happened and as time passed those who objected found out how easy it was to shop, pay bills and monitor your bank account online was.
Remote control techs are the future...we'll just have to deal with it!
Is the first thing they ask "is it plugged in?"
dagnee wrote:I admit when I originally saw this in the main forum, I immediately messaged Mikira and warned her to take it down. Not that I thought it would get pulled, which it did, but because I know what happened to me in the old forums when I said I was a Christian. A two week drama over religion, and all I said was that I was a believer. Period. I didn't even tell people my beliefs, which are pretty liberal for a Christian. The people challenging me were atheist, and they were upset when I didn't defend what I believe or insist they believe the same. In fact I told them I didn't care about their salvation, I was too worried about my own. I think the thread died down, I don't think SolN pulled it.
If people got that riled up over me just saying I'm a believer, I could just imagine what they would say to a reprinted sermon and warned Mikira. Which was unnecessary because SolN pulled the thread.
What I wonder now is, why are we afraid to discuss religion? I know I was afraid that Mikira would get hurt, because the people who challenged me were not nice about it. The word 'crazy' got lobbed my way a lot. But still, what makes us so uncomfortable with other people's beliefs we call them insane? Why was I attacked for just saying I was a believer? Why not let Mikira's post generate discussion, albeit not very civil? Should we do as the old adage says and never discuss religion and politics with friends?
I invited Mikira to post her pulled post here, and remind you all this is the place where pulled posts have a home.
I think the problem with Religion and Politics are that they are for some (most?) an absolute. They are two things people are very passionate about. I can't change your views on either; you can't change mine- so instead of a spirited "point-counter-point" discussion, you get a knock-down drag-out argument. I would not have thought atheist would be the ones to get defensive over it, though, I would have hoped they would be the most tolerant.
My only pet peeve about religion, per se, is when it gets mixed up into politics (which currently it is.) I don't have an issue with a pastor not wanting to perform a gay wedding- but I do have a problem when the religious right claims marriage for their own and deny gay men and women from getting married. If marriage belongs to religion, than what does that make mine and my husband's wedding performed by the Justice of the Peace in lovely downtown Albuquerque? Are our children bastards?
I do have an issue with people using their religious views to violate the civil rights of others, though.
And don't get me started on a woman's right to choose!
Okay, all done.
I got a similar review. I commiserate.
Sorry, don't see anything offensive in it.
Unless its the religious element- though it doesn't bother me in the least, and I'm agnostic. I honestly don't know. I like the advice. Though if I were to write something out on paper I wouldn't be able to read it in order to put it into the post/forum or wherever it was destined to go. My hand-writing skills have deteriorated. I might instead use that advice and just SLOW down, and RE-READ what I've typed a few times before pushing the submit button.
Thanks for sharing,
CJ
dagnee wrote:To quote Janet: Another one of my pet hates is when reviewers try and rewrite your whole chapter to match their writing style - doesn't happen often, but there are one or two reviewers who do that (and don't recognise/acknowledge it) - and then you have to try and make head or tails of whether it's just a difference in writing styles or genres, or whether it's really a problem. sigh, you have to love the process!
I have a reviewer that rewrites me, he's famous for it, he loves to do it to shake the writer up. Sometimes when he does it, he totally loses the intent of the material, and comes up with something completely different other than what's been written. It usually doesn't bother me, I know he's doing it to mess with me, but sometimes it gets on my last nerve, so I rewrite something of his.
I've rewritten a few things, not in my style but to help the writer clarify what they're trying to say. I generally leave style out of my reviews. I try to focus on plot and the clarity of what's being said.
I ignore reviewers who correct the grammar in my characters dialog. We don't all use correct grammar when we speak and neither do our characters. So, I leave dialog alone when I review, unless I don't understand why it's there.
Generally, I think if someone rewrites huge swaths of your material, that review needs to be ignored. It's called a review not a rewrite.
Okay, I'm also guilty of rewrites- but I do it more to clarify what I'm trying to say more than- Hey mine's better use this. I'm a terrible teacher and find examples work better. I am not a big fan of choppy sentences- so - okay I'm guilty of style comments. But to be fair, when someone says all comments welcome I "comment" and let them figure out what they find useful or not. I'm pretty sure that the writer would know more about their characters and where their plot is going than someone who is only at the beginning of their novel and know what to ignore.
I usually don't want to comment on plot at the beginning- hoping to be able to finish the piece and comment then. Comments on novel pace I reserve for the middle- too soon you don't see the rhythm. At the beginning the only thing I feel comfortable with is line edits. But anyone whose work I've reviewed will notice those get less the farther I get into the story and get used to the writer's style.
I would NEVER advise to scrap and start over- that's just crass. If I can't find something helpful, I won't leave a review. Again, I'm not published- what the hell do I know? I've actually purchased books that I've had trouble getting through and giving up- yet they are well liked by many. Opinions are all we have folks! And we all know what they say about opinions...
CJ
dagnee wrote:C J Driftwood wrote:dagnee wrote:I don't know that you've been blocked, CJ, maybe she has it set so that only connections can read her stuff.
Are you connected with Temple?
I went to her page to request a connection, but the button is not there. So no way to ask. It's alright, not like she's waiting with anticipation for my commenting skills on her work.
Yep, she's BLOCKED YOU.
I like blocking because on the old site one of the ways you could get back at someone for a bad review, something the said about you in the forums, or for something you did to offend them, was leave a 'revenge' review, which wasn't about your writing but about how much you pissed them off.
It's no secret I don't play well with others, and although I'm learning to temper my remarks with tact, some of the things I said in the forums on the old site would invite these kind of reviews. Also, on the old site these reviews would stay attached to your work for all to read unless you deleted the work and republished it, or asked SolN to remove it, that's why I really like being able to dump reviews.
I've been blocked by a few, and I just think that's one less person to review!
Temple's loss our gain!
What's sad is I think I get more out of a negative review than a nice one. I mean, its great to know what you are doing right, but much more helpful to be pointed to your errors. I think that's why we all joined this website in the first place. No, you don't need to be cruel and spiteful- she wasn't to me, I wasn't going to be back. I even said I really appreciated her honesty. I think the problem is that like email, postings can be read with the intent of the reader more so than the writer. Maybe when I said I was looking forward to reviewing her, she thought it was to do one of those "revenge" reviews. But true, one less review to do is fine, I've got plenty to do.
dagnee wrote:janet reid wrote:C J Driftwood wrote:Yep, I've been blocked. I wonder why.
I'd be interested to know when (if) you figure this one out - why review someone you have blocked?! Because this is essentially what's happened?
*shakes head*
I don't know that you've been blocked, CJ, maybe she has it set so that only connections can read her stuff.
Are you connected with Temple?
I went to her page to request a connection, but the button is not there. So no way to ask. It's alright, not like she's waiting with anticipation for my commenting skills on her work.
janet reid wrote:C J Driftwood wrote:janet reid wrote:Added to limited time, my other problem is my shocking memory. And with this new site, I just can't seem to get my "who to review" system to work.
The reading list is useless - it takes you to Chapter 1 of the piece and not the next chapter you need to review or the last chapter you had reviewed. The old reading list saved "chapters", not books, so I used that function on the old site to the max to keep track of who and how much I have reviewed and who or what was next. So now, I'm using my reading list more like a "to-do" list than anything else.
Yep, I've been blocked. Odd. I wonder why?
I also tried to only connect with writers I need to recip - that way, I only needed to keep an eye on my new connection content. That quickly went down to the drain as I have used the messaging functionality to send private messages to writers that I just simply can not review at the moment because I can't keep up with the recips as it is.
Short of running a paper or Excel reading list on the side, I'm out of ideas to keep it all together on the site. So if anyone has a suggestion for a fish bowl brain like mine (yes, fish bowl, not goldfish ), please let me know! Who knows, end of 2016 I might just say thank you with a review of your work!
Oh my GOD yes! It's annoying as hell.
And recently I went to reciprocate for several reviewers and got the message that they are no longer members or their posts are no longer available for review. It wasn't that long since their posting. One of which is Temple Wang (who gave me some very useful comments). I noticed she posted as recently as the 28th. So, I don't know what is going on there- TEMPLE- if you are reading, how can i reciprocate - I certainly don't want to be a hypocrite!
As for a failing memory- yeah, if someone reads mine I immediately tag theirs to read. If nothing is there, I will (sorry to say) forget about it.
CJ, this looks to me like you've been blocked. Easiest way to confirm is to access their homepage - if you can leave quickees or access work or send a connection request, then you have not been blocked, otherwise you've been blocked.
Yep, I've been blocked. I wonder why.
janet reid wrote:C J Driftwood wrote:~enough CAPS, Janet?
Okay, rant over for now- ran out of lunch hour again... dang it!
CJ, some very nice comments on reviewing other genres and returning the favour. It's exactly how I feel to.
With regards to your post on terrorism, also agree, if a cartoon is so hardcore, well, return it like for like!
But regarding your use of caps lock - I think we need another rule: One can NEVER USE ENOUGH CAPS.
YOU HAVE FAILED, BUT BECAUSE YOU'RE SO REASONABLE AND DAMN LIKEABLE, WE'LL GIVE YOU ANOTHER CHANCE!
AW! THANKS! I'LL DO BETTER IN THE FUTURE! HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!
JL Mo wrote:I liked CJ's post, but my eyebrows crawled to my scalp when I read, "...So easy to kill. So easy to die..." and I had to reply.
Only in novels, my friend. Only in novels.
That your spell checker changed prophet to profit was funny. But your belief that a cartoon of Muhammad would be sated by a cartoon of Charlie Hebdo was hilarious!
Signed,
A Born Again Christian,
JL Mo
I didn't mean to imply that I found such things easy. No, to me, life and death is a hard struggle of incredible value. I personally don't believe in an afterlife- this is all we get and we should damn well make the best of it. I'm a humanist, and believe that human beings have tremendous potential. I don't believe that ISIS is a religious movement. I believe it is more opportunistically motivated.
I was just saying how the terrorists devalue the lives of those they kill, as well as the lives of those who kill in their name.
And yes, spell check can make for some interesting reading. 
janet reid wrote:JL Mo wrote:I hope I'm not the only one who sees themselves in the complaints of non-reciprocal reviewers. I am guilty, guilty, guilty. I could give my reasons/excuses as to why I haven't been on site often enough, but they wouldn't matter one iota. I've promised to return reviews, and I have failed on that promise time and time again. But... I still plan to.
No! Really! I do!
Now, if only I could get my grandson off of my lap whenever I open my computer...
Added to limited time, my other problem is my shocking memory. And with this new site, I just can't seem to get my "who to review" system to work.
The reading list is useless - it takes you to Chapter 1 of the piece and not the next chapter you need to review or the last chapter you had reviewed. The old reading list saved "chapters", not books, so I used that function on the old site to the max to keep track of who and how much I have reviewed and who or what was next. So now, I'm using my reading list more like a "to-do" list than anything else.
I also tried to only connect with writers I need to recip - that way, I only needed to keep an eye on my new connection content. That quickly went down to the drain as I have used the messaging functionality to send private messages to writers that I just simply can not review at the moment because I can't keep up with the recips as it is.
Short of running a paper or Excel reading list on the side, I'm out of ideas to keep it all together on the site. So if anyone has a suggestion for a fish bowl brain like mine (yes, fish bowl, not goldfish ), please let me know! Who knows, end of 2016 I might just say thank you with a review of your work!
Oh my GOD yes! It's annoying as hell.
And recently I went to reciprocate for several reviewers and got the message that they are no longer members or their posts are no longer available for review. It wasn't that long since their posting. One of which is Temple Wang (who gave me some very useful comments). I noticed she posted as recently as the 28th. So, I don't know what is going on there- TEMPLE- if you are reading, how can i reciprocate - I certainly don't want to be a hypocrite!
As for a failing memory- yeah, if someone reads mine I immediately tag theirs to read. If nothing is there, I will (sorry to say) forget about it.
I had a very honest one the other day:
"very good structure and words. I am trying my hardest to publish my story which has been very hard in getting the points I need in order to publish it. I am new to this site and still trying to figure out how it works. I just know I want to enter the contest and need points."
dagnee wrote:Janet, you have the right idea. I am hoping that with disagreements come resolutions, but it's okay if no resolution can be found. I just felt so strongly about what happened not only in France, but what happened to Sony, that I felt as a site that represents the written word we should be able to write what we wanted in our group forums. Viva la liberté d'expression!!!!
Dags,
I'm with you- Kill, Kill, Kill, that's all terrorist can think to do. So easy to kill. So easy to die. Try building something for a change, assholes! Their lack of creative expression is mass murdering the citizens of this planet. So a cartoonist made a cartoon about their profit. Fine! Be upset! DON'T BUY THE GODDAMNED magazine. And okay, so making a cartoon was the most HORRIBLE, DAMNABLE thing imaginable. Fine! ISIS- AL-QAEDA- draw your own GOD-DAMNED CARTOON about Charlie Hebdo if it is such a SLAM. Don't kill everybody you morons! Didn't anyone ever tell them to fight fire with fire, not a stinkin' A-bomb.
~enough CAPS, Janet?
Okay, rant over for now- ran out of lunch hour again... dang it!
jack the knife wrote:Okay, I was doing my voyeur thing and saw this thread. So I had to opine. Which meant I had to join this group. No biggie. It looks like a place for some spleen venting! So you're talking about writers who gladly take your reviews, and are even effervescent in their gratitude, perhaps - and you never see them review your stuff. A one-way street. The new site lets folk get away with this without what might appear at first to be untoward consequences, because there's always the Free site to pillage and mine, but let me tell you, bubs, an author who does that to me will never get another review from me until that author sees the light. And I'm not insisting on a one-for-one. Like CJ, I've reviewed a whole novella of an author on this site. Have I received even one review in response? No. Another author on this site - I reviewed multiple chapters of her lengthy novel and received one I-paid-my-dues review. Hey, we're no longer shooting for the Top Ten novel list anymore; that's not the issue. The more eyes on a posting, the better the chances that all the nits will be exposed. That's what I'm here for - the "free" editing! If I'm willing to use my time and experience to help out a fellow author, why can't said author do the same for me? And I'm not talking about those newbies on the Free site, but "established" writers who should know better. You all know who you are. Jack
See! That's what I'm saying. I have very little free time, its like I have to scurry away and hide to do reviews. Sometimes all I got is a lunch hour. I'd rather spend that time reviewing those writers that help me out in return.
CJ
That does hurt. But maybe some authors feel that just reviewing anyone else's work is reciprocation. I don't want to feel like we have to go back and forth, else how will we get new input?
There's also this: I read, but don't review fantasy, sci fi, poetry or YA (usually), because I'm so out of touch with those genres I wouldn't know what to say. JP
JP,
About going back and forth- that (at least as far as I know) is how it works. I can't speak for everyone, but I assume we are all here for the help (and encouragement) of fellow writers (either published or not) to get our work the best it can be. By reviewing others, I've been able to see mistakes in my own work- win-win. By others reviewing my work, I get to see my writing from a "readers" perspective, which is very important. As writers we completely control the novel's environment and we know the characters inside and out. We know how they would react and what they would say and how they would say it. Which is why it is crucial to have someone unfamiliar read the text. See if the clues we played out about our characters and storyline are picked up by the reader. Make sure the reader is seeing our characters how we intend them to be seen. Make sure we are actually communicating our novel, not just writing words on a page that only speaks to us (unless you don't expect it to ever be read- but then what are you doing on a writer's workshop website?)
About you not reviewing fantasy, sci-fi etc, because you are out of touch with the genres- fooey! Don't review them as an expert- review them as a reader. Make suggestions, or even point out typos. Every review is helpful. I like to make suggestions or write examples- more to demonstrate the point I'm trying to make than expecting them to be used. Especially when at the beginning of a novel. As a reader, I don't know who the characters are- or anything about the plot. But I can tell if something doesn't sound right to my reader's ear- (which I'm fully aware is just an opinion!) If you are going to read them anyway, you might as well give the author's a little feedback, its the least you can do for them giving you entertaining reading material.
CJ
My biggest beef. I once reviewed another author's "entire" novella. And not once did they review anything of mine.
I know it is hard sometimes to reciprocate tit for tat- it takes me an hour and sometimes even longer to read, think about and post a review. So I do fall behind, but I make every effort to catch up. How can someone not even review a chapter of a work from someone who had read their entire novella? Or- for that matter say thanks for the review?
I mean, it was good. But still, I'm here to improve, I'd like some brutal honesty to come my way.
Looks like lunch hour is over,
Cheers,
CJ
Hi Pamela,
Welcome to the site.
I have just started posting my second novel (a sequel to the first) and would love to hear from someone who hasn't read the first to see where I might need to make things clearer.
It's called The Raven's Curse.
Let me know if there is something you've posted that you would like reviewed. I make every effort to reciprocate on reviews.
Take care,
CJ
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