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banjolele

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ukulele

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giving

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wintry

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faith

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mule train

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Oxbridge

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lessee

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corra wrote:

Storm?

“A Christmas frost had come at midsummer; a white December storm had whirled over June; ice glazed the ripe apples, drifts crushed the blowing roses; on hayfield and cornfield lay a frozen shroud: lanes which last night blushed full of flowers, to-day were pathless with untrodden snow; and the woods, which twelve hours since waved leafy and flagrant as groves between the tropics, now spread, waste, wild, and white as pine-forests in wintry Norway.”  – Charlotte Bronte, Jane Eyre

What a picture! But...

Ripe: If I could, I'd like to talk with Ms. Bronte about ripe apples in June; besides, her lovely picture of a late spring snow storm, I mean.

I grew up in a climate that was probably very similar to the one in which Ms Bronte saw her June snow storm. ¿Perhaps, she was looking at a Yellow transparent apple tree? I believe Yellow transparent may be the proper name for the early apple I loved as a youngster. We called them June apples in the mountains of Virginia. I used to get sick from eating so many of them.

I'd want to ask her if she chose June to have her snowstorm for meteorlogical reasons or from a childhood memory.

I'd tell her the story my now-ancient aunt told me about a lynching that happened in the late 19th century in my mountains. One day in June, they hung a black man in a June apple tree for stealing two chickens. That evening a snow storm hit.

I'd like to have ripe apples on my June apple tree when I next describe for my grandchildren the snow storm that hit Blue Ruby in June.

Memphis

286

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pettitoe

Norm d'Plume wrote:

Sol, are there any plans to support foreign language characters in the site's word processor? I have to strip all of the long vowels (āēīōū) out of my Latin words because the posted chapters become illegible with ? characters. They show up all right as I'm pasting them into the edit window, but then all display as ? on the site. Subsequently reopening the edit window shows that they have all been converted to ? in the stored text.

I'm using Windows 7, Google Chrome, and Office 2007.

Thanks.
Dirk

I will try in this answer to use foreign language symbols to see if this website http://www.theworldofstuff.com/characters/ works with TNBW's forum word processor. I too use Windows 7, Google Chrome, and Office 2007

¿Am I a naïf?

Memphis Trace

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haecceity

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Paul,

I'll keep a light on for you.

Memphis

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nushnik

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gardyloo

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What does fileol mean?

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oo

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corra wrote:

Currently, though, I am burdened with the suspicion that the biggest Hemingway devotees are Hemingway scholars, those interested readers of his fiction who also are possessed of a goodly knowledge of his life and times. Is that what great literature is?

I wouldn't think so! There's a lasting debate in literature about what great literature is, and a debate about how to approach it. Some feel that knowing the author's life sullies the work: art for art's sake! It ought to stand alone. Others find the historical perspective more rewarding than the art. Others can't imagine trying to read a work of literature without knowing the context of the author's life and times.

For most of my writing and reading life, I have belonged to the tribe that wants to read the story purveyed by the words on the page, not the words as translated by others through the prism of the writer's biases those others know about. There is a magic—perhaps the magic—for me in seeing a picture emerge from the cryptic symbols men have chosen to convey thoughts, and for believing that I see the same picture the writer means to convey.

Indeed, I would say this magic is the most important beauty of the most abstract of the arts: Storytelling. ¿What other art must rely so heavily on an interested voyeur translating the symbols that convey the pictures in the thoughts of an artist into a picture that can be seen, heard, smelled, tasted, and/or felt? It is a communion with the growth of knowledge through the ages at the behest of the artful use of the language.

It is not that I don't like to know about the writer's life and times and biases, even if it's mostly true that I don't, but I'm guessing that I like to learn of those things only after I feel I have successfully "seen" the picture the experts believe—from study of the artist—was truly drawn. ¡I think my preference for the way I receive communication may come from being asked, sometimes forced, to interpret the abstractness of the Bible based on the pictures the artists drew; these artists claiming they were drawing pictures based on having seen, heard, tasted, smelled, and/or felt God: Talk about the greatest need to suspend one's disbelief!

I don't know a great deal about Hemingway. I like his work because it was revolutionary. He was one of the Modernist writers who transformed literature.

I will take your word for it that Hemingway's work is revolutionary. For most of my writing workshop life, I have been subjected to the idea that his work was a reactionary response to the flowerdy communication of the artists who came before him, an attempt to make his work accessible to folks who don't know all the big, handsome words—and who become lost, groping in the dim light of the long sentences, that artists such as Faulkner were so fond of.

I question what the experts who've tried to sell me on the Hemingway revolution have concluded were his motives. In my study so far of his work—by reading it and seeing how accessible it is to me, an interested reader—I am finding that Hemingway puts the fence of his Iceberg Theory between me and the pictures he draws with his words.

Here is what Hemingway says about accessibility:
If a writer of prose knows enough of what he is writing about he may omit things that he knows and the reader, if the writer is writing truly enough, will have a feeling of those things as strongly as though the writer had stated them. The dignity of movement of an iceberg is due to only one-eighth of it being above water. A writer who omits things because he does not know them only makes hollow places in his writing. Emphasis mine.

I loudly applaud Hemingway's desire to write accessibly and with dignity. BUT in reading Hemingway, I wonder, "What could he have been thinking? He has left out the dignified parts Faulkner put in that drew pictures of men who moved and smelt and felt and tasted and stared and deciphered..." About which Faulkner said, The aim of every artist is to arrest motion, which is life, by artificial means and hold it fixed so that a hundred years later, when a stranger looks at it, it moves again.

¿My bias for Faulkner showing through? Hardly, I beg.

Though I cut my teeth on Faulkner, Hemingway was attempting to change literature in a way I fully support.

That sense that his work has barely begun and isn't quite finished? I think that was purposeful.

If what he was trying to sell was purposeful, that he fails by eliding things that would make his stories truer and more accessible to storylisteners makes his attempt a pig in a poke rather than dignified to me, UNLESS one becomes an expert on Hemingway's life and times and can say with some authority that they know what was meant by what Hemingway left out.

He was coming out of the Victorian era, which wanted to tie a pretty bow around novels -- punish the bad characters, reward the good characters, and end things happily ever after. He's questioning that in his work. Is there a happily ever after? Is their justice? Is there a pretty bow at the end of the story? Or isn't life really a relentless struggle to hold yourself together and be as honorable as you can in a world which dishonors and crushes?

Hemingway's style—so far and except for a few fine successes, and before I set to on his novels—is for me the same as February's style: Short and brutish, and to boot, short of dignity.

He was writing after The Great War shattered illusions. Everything people believed in was scattered all over the floor, including the Victorian vision. Instead of reading Dickens's novels, people are heading to the silver screen to be inspired by images which move and say nothing. I think this contributed to the way literature changed with Hemingway. He's challenging the reader to experience deeply what he leaves unsaid. Here is the stage, here are the players, they said the following, these thoughts crushed the mind, and that is all.

IF the Iceberg Theory was merely an invitation to study his life within the context of the times, then I will have to classify him as one more failed narcissist. If, once I've finished his long stories, his Iceberg Theory reveals to me, an interested and inexpert reader, some ultimate truth about the art of communicating accessible and dignified prose, I will applaud his success with "leaving out" as counter-intuitive genius made manifest.

In the meantime, where do we writers get off saying to interested readers, look at me, study me, look at the mirror I look into, within the context of my times... and learn life.

I'm not sure if that helps?

Since I've known you on TNBW, corra, you have helped by questioning. Your questions are never unhelpful to me. They provoke me to examine my writing life.

Memphis

299

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corra wrote:

You're welcome! It appears I've still misunderstood your perspective. Still an interesting look at the deconstruction of those documents, though. :)

I quite like that aphorism. Thank you for sharing it.

Right now I'm reading A Farewell To Arms. More truth may be there than in the archives of actual history, is your point? I can't say I disagree with that line of thinking. Art as the great lens on life. I (may be) beginning to understand. Pardon me for being thick!

¿Being thick? I don't think so, corra... I can gather from your postings that you are reading voraciously and, whether history or fiction, that is where it can be found. If you question authority as you read, I believe it will help you get thinner. I have never found a surer way than reading to provoke thinking.

I'm a little over 2/3s of the way through the Finca Vigia Edition of The Complete Short Stories of Ernest Hemingway: my long ago promise to myself to see what all the Hemingway fuss of my younger days was about. Hemingway devotees tell me that his short stories are where it is at. If they are where it is at, the writing in most of them is half again too subtle for me to find it.

I find I am caught up in his writing, much in the same way I get caught up in reading most writing in a workshop. I seldom am satisfied that a Hemingway story is finished—sometimes that the story is even started—when I get to the end of one.

As a young man, I read The Sun Also Rises and liked it a lot. I read it again a year or so ago and found it a chore, paying out counsel on how to write it better as I read. I am determined to like Hemingway, so I will move on to his later novels once I finish his short stories. Currently, though, I am burdened with the suspicion that the biggest Hemingway devotees are Hemingway scholars, those interested readers of his fiction who also are possessed of a goodly knowledge of his life and times. Is that what great literature is? Am I to be forever excluded?

I read Beckett's play, Waiting for Godot, a year or so ago, because someone said the humor in a scene in one of my stories (or one of their stories) was reminiscent of Beckett's absurdist humor. I found out http://www.samuel-beckett.net/BerlinTraffic.html before I read it, that it was "voted the most significant English language play of the 20th century in a British Royal National Theatre poll of 800 playwrights, actors, directors and journalists." I missed all that while I read it.

When I finished reading it, I rushed to my Kindle to buy Waiting for Godot (Maxnotes® Literature Guides) by Rita Wilensky. According to Maxnotes®'s promise, the book "was intended to help absorb the essential contents... and to help you gain a thorough understanding... designed to do this more effectively than any other study guide."

Maxnotes® put the play into a perspective that made me really, really enjoy and appreciate it when I read it again. But it also begged for an answer to the question: Exactly for whom was Beckett writing the play?

One of the things I believe, and love, about many contemporary storytellers is that they are making their art accessible to such as me without my having to know anything about them or their agendas. To me the genius in storytelling is making it pleasurably accessible, creating storylisteners of the barely literate.   

I hope I don't have to read a Maxnotes® Literature Guide of Hemingway's stories to love them. Everybody tells me that Hemingway used simple language (as opposed to Faulkner) to tell big stories. It will be the last big comedown if I find I have to have it (Hemingway) all 'splained to me.

Memphis

300

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Dill Carver wrote:
Dill Carver wrote:
Memphis Trace wrote:

How many of the gets http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/get?s=t are begotten?

Definition 29:
noun
29.
an offspring or the total of the offspring, especially of a male animal

Memphis

My war on 'got' within this novel (from another forum thread).

I have minor issues with the slack-jawed lingo and phrases like ‘a hot cup of coffee.’  This is a cup of hot coffee surely? But realise this is American and so probably colloquial but,… ‘They got a hot cup of coffee and a firm handshake when they got home.’

'Got' is such a dumbed down vocal expression. Surely, give this astronaut fellow some diction?

‘They received a cup of hot coffee and a firm handshake when they arrived home.’

I think Brits tend to dislike got. I ran into another Brit on a different website who made me aware of how much I used got. I think I probably use it less now than I used to, but I wasn't consciously trying to dumb down what I wrote when he pointed it out. ¿Maybe dumbed down's in my DNA.

Memphis