Chemist needed for the year 4017 (Page 2 of 2)

and my point never denied the importance of WSD but rather the confusion of sci-fi science with magic is not worthy of WSD.

Though Sir Arthur wrote: "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science" he implied the converse of "any sufficiently utilized science is the same as magic."  That is to say a magician's black box that appears to do magical things can be in the end explained fully in the context of reason in which there is no magic, but a scientist/engineer's black box cannot be (unless there is fraud and deception involved) ever explained leaving such a mystery as if just maybe there might be magic involved (Nobody but the wizard engineer can understand the thing).  Of course, as I finish this explanation, I realize it is probably more confusing than if I just said nothing, but damn if I going to throw away a fine set of highfalutin verbiage. 

BTW I never considered Dr. Who (except perhaps in the first Doctor fifty years ago) Sci fi but rather in that TV, almost cartoonish, fantasy class.

Hello Norm, I am slower on the uptake than others and been left behind by the way this discussion has progressed, but years ago I was an inorganic chemist and actually worked with superacids, mostly fluorosulfuric but also some of the mixtures (stronger acids) with antimony pentafluoride.  Basic answer to your question is that the strongest of these acids will protonate (add proton to make a positive ion, so copper metal reacts to form Cu++ and soluble in the acid, for example).  Same happens to almost anything so you would generate a lot of ions in solution and a lot gases (hydrogen and other gases depending on the nature of the acid that are produced by the disolutions) that will boil off making frothing etc like you suggest.  Separating out all those ions would take engineering solutions that are beyond current day technology (chemists can do it on a small scale, but not an industrial one, at least not cost effectively).
One difficulty you would have  is that all superacids react with water so your vat could not be in our atmosphere  because the acid would react with the moisture in the air.  They would also react with metal containers or glass containers (not all of them, fluorosulfuric  acid and triflic acid are stable in glass but the stronger superacids would not be).  Some fluorocarbon plastics (teflon for example) can be used for containers.
On a different level aren't you asking an old alchemist question, the one about alkahest, the universal solvent.  If that's where you're going I would suggest a superacid that protonates just about anything is as good a bet as anything else.
Hope this is some use.

Okay, two examples: (1) The Twilight Zone episode in which robbers of gold are put into suspended animation and in the end the last remaining re-animated robber is found dead clutching a gold bar, and his discoverers in the future world tell us (to the effect): what an idiot, we can make gold cheaply and certainly gold is no longer worth dying over. Of all the themes, characterizations, and plotlines contained in that story, for one to complain: Oh, science says that we will never be able to make gold cheaply (alchemy/magic versus chemistry/science) means he has stick up his ass.

On the other hand, example (2): The author imagines a future world as a post-socialist, nonviolent androgenous communist utopia in which "money" is spending credit allotted to each according to his needs, healthcare is free, and sexism, racism, and homophobia have disappeared entirely. His utopia is made possible, in part, he imagines by engineering the Y chromosome out of human beings and making gold from lead or any other base metal; the economy can be made to expand infinitely by infinite expansion of the money supply and with people not doing that male thing of greed and competition.  This is to say that we are to accept by willing suspension of disbelief a magical kingdom created by magic -- something that has an internal logic that magic-fantasies do have but which conflicts with every detail of reality.  I believe an enthusiast for such a story is either a child or a moron or a communist, i.e., a moronic childish communist adult like Michael Moore or Sean Penn.  I think you claim Moore and Penn have right to their personal tastes, opinions, etc. -- that I do not deny -- and all such magic-fantasy authors masquerading as sci-fi futurist authors have a right to cater to those tastes and opinions -- that I do not deny -- but that misses the greater issue of the propagation of evil ideas that can do nothing in practice other than destroy lives.  Similarly, freedom of and to religion does not deny the freedom of authors of such texts which sanction the beheadings of Christian Americans, Shiite Muslims, and atheist Japanese in the deserts of the middle east, but it should not also deny a righteous condemnation of the magical thinking which creates such texts for/by/of the purpose of willing suspension of disbelief.

Can I ask that if you intend to dig deeper into the moral and possibly religious aspect of a story, any story, that you take this to my group http://www.thenextbigwriter.com/group-b … writers-63 and continue this conversation there. - You don't have to be a confessed believer to be part of the group. All I ask is that you treat one another respectfully in any religious topic you decide to delve into.

Dagnee, I think the issue is fantasy in the story sense versus fantasy in the sense of what we might wish for.

Not sure if I want to dive into a group -meant- for these issues.  All I was trying to do was clarify the questions, not wrangle them.

Alkemi, thanks for the confirmation about superacids. I decided that keeping them contained and capturing the gases produced was too difficult to tell and beyond the scope of what I was hoping to try. I decided to go with a 41st century brew that liquifies everything put imto it, except of course, teflon and air. That way, I won't worry about having to contain fumes, explosive reations and frothing, and extraction of elements from the resulting crystals. I simply invented something that I'll proibably call espresso, to liquify anthing put into it, with no toxic fumes, except for a few bubbles to help visualize the scene. I'm also considering naming it for its inventor, Gaius Olympus Octavian, using his initials, GOO, among other choices.

Thanks
Dirk

Thanks, Vern. Also a great idea.

LOL!!! Hopefully people won't confuse it with 'Super Glue' as they read 'Super GOO'.

However, all kidding aside. I like it. I also like the idea that Vern has for making it a stew of metal eating bacteria. I just wonder what happens after the bacteria digest the car...then again I don't want to know.

Edit: Well just not in great detail. Since I hope to find time to start reviewing this novel.

Hey, Dirk! Why not have the operator push a button and turn the aircar into a briefcase? This worked for George Jetson.

~Tom

Hello Norm, I know you have figured out where you are going with this and no longer want superacid solution.  However I couldn't resist making like a 41st century alchemist and describing a process that could generate an alkahest that would dissolve anything you need to recycle.  Hey, I always wanted to give up on mysteries and write sci fi.  Now is my chance.  So here goes.
Picture a conveyor belt made of perfluorosilene polymers (PFSiP).  It carries whatever you want to recycle into a long chamber also made of a PFSiP, one that is transparent so people can watch.  There has to be a force field where the conveyor enters the chamber to keep the atmosphere inside and outside separate.  Inside the chamber a 41st century superacid (much better than current superacids), one that dissolves anything except PFSiPs is sprayed from jets at the top of the chamber and observers can watch as the cars and other things on the conveyor melt away (all the plumbing and everything else has to be made from PFSiPs so they have to be a very versatile group of polymeric silicon compounds).  Gasses produced are sucked away by pumps to be recycled and the acid with all chemicals in material being recycled protonated to ions collects at the bottom.  This acid is so strong that all metals are dissolved and converted to cations and all organic material to (CH5)+ ions. This solution is drawn off to a mass spectrometer (and improvement on current technology because it can separate ions by their mass (current mass specs can only separate gases).  Once separated the metals and the carbon are reduced by strong electrical charge.  Neutral metals and CH5 fall out of solution and collected.  Superacid solvent is recycled back to chamber were it is sprayed on more stuff to be recycled.  CH5 is a very unstable and reactive compound that becomes feedstock for fuel and entire carbon plastics industry.  We wouldn't be able to handle it with 21st century technology but this is sci fi so I can blithely assume our 41st century chemists have figured it out.