Topic: The trouble with the movies

I used to think of movies as a useful resource, I used to think that the production crew would have made every effort to be as historically accurate as possible, but I have become very wary.
I find there are two ways in which one is affected. Firstly you see clothing, tools and other articles in a 'period' film which you assume are reliable along with background and landscape. Then when writing you use these conceptions in you visualization.  One knows about guns that shoot far too many times without reloading and are accurate at unseemly distances but do you know when the first repeating pistol actually came into mass production and common usage? Westerns a re dreadful for making the 1880's stand in for anything from 1810 onward. But even the landscape can be very wrong for instance historical accounts of areas of Arizona that are now semi-desert had 'grass as high as a horse'.  Overgrazing and the white influx changed the landscape fundamentally from the early 1800's.
Secondly actual events are frequently 'engineered' for the purposes of the film and again they become a part of what one takes as ones own 'historical' knowledge base from which the first seeds of imagination grow.
Check and double check is now my motto.

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Re: The trouble with the movies

I think the biggest trouble with movies is that everything is exposed. You can't be vague but must make critical decisions. Often because the people making the movies don't know to do the research or don't think it matters, they make the wrong decisions.

In a book, the narrator can say "he put his armor on" but in the movie we see the armor, so the art director or head of costuming has to decide what kind of armor it is. When that person doesn't understand the historical context, they pick incorrect things.

I'm reminded of this when I think of the (all around poorly made) King Arthur film of 2004. The head of costuming had all of these creative and fantastic ideas about incorporating the knights' heritage and personalities into their clothing. But all her incredible work fell flat the moment the audience realized what she never thought was important. That as Roman cavalry men, the "knights" would have standard Roman armor and weapons. It wasn't that she didn't work hard at their customs (she certainly did!) but that she didn't realize that the factual history was important enough to research.

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Re: The trouble with the movies

I don't trust the movies for accuracy. I believe as a writer, I should do my own research, even double checking what I think may be accurate. It is also nice to find someone who can help you with your research either because they are from the area and should know a lot of the history or someone who is very learned in the subject.

I happen to live in Arizona, born and raised. I can help in any questions you have about our state or particular city. I love history and spend a lot of my time researching things of interest. My love for history started when I was researching my grandmother's side of the family. I found out so much about the city of Maysville, MO, I could probably write a story based there, and I may. I received a lot of help from the Missouri Historical Society.

I like your Motto, Dunecan, "check and double check."

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Re: The trouble with the movies

April

I like your thoughts on own research!

People can give you all sorts of advice based on their own ideas of what history is. But we really have to check things for ourselves.

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Re: The trouble with the movies

It is a very interesting question and I think a personal one as to where as a writer you draw the line between absolute fact and creative story. I am currently moving a well documented mans life by 10 years so he can come into my story but on the other hand I am trying very hard to find details of housing, road conditions etc in 1841 in Dinas Mawwdwy a (now) small town about 50 miles north of me where my story starts. By the end of this book (Fire in the Blood - working title) Rhianon will be 'married' to an Apache in Arizona. I have done immense research on the Apache and the area but am going to have to use more artistic licence as I cannot yet at least walk the trails myself.  Then again so many things will have changed.  So any one needing info about Wales do ask me.

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Re: The trouble with the movies

I may pick your brain about Wales next year--I have a historical fantasy world set in the mountains of Gwynned. I have three published novels and am starting a new one next year. This year I'm working on a book set in territorial Hawaii--it starts there anyway.

One of the worst movie errors was in The Mummy. The Book of the Dead was an actual book. Yeah. Should've been a scroll. Every one of my sixth graders knows that!

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Re: The trouble with the movies

Hi Ann, your welcome to ask me anything you want when you get to wales.  I often take a spin up there on my motorbike and can take photos of areas of interest and I have found some interesting resources in my research for Dinas Mawddwy. Another movie hate for me is is in the sound dept, whu oh why use incorrect eagle and owl cries in a pathetic attempt to heighten or signal action!

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Re: The trouble with the movies

lol! See, sounds I would never catch. My son is a production assistant. He's worked on independent feature films and some TV shows. Watch a movie with him and it will ruin the movie for you forever! I remember taking him to see Monsters, Inc. when he was still in high school. He was in an animation course in school, using the same software they used on the show. He was totally disgusted with the way they made the blue hair move on the big monster. Yeah. I never would've noticed that. To each their own, right?

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Re: The trouble with the movies

Brilliant, yes I'm like that with films and theatre having worked in both.  My wife says all I look at is the lighting and the continuity.

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10 Reply by max keanu (edited by max keanu 2015-04-05 19:15:58)

Re: The trouble with the movies

If you've written screenplays up to a production level/ standard or worked a movie from the director's pedestal, you'll understand why historical writings become perverted and many times the outcome is very so different from the novel.

https://www.stage32.com/profile/61289/max-keanu
I offer up short stories for screenwriters to play with.

For example: Try taking a family reunion or wedding, taking still photos or with a movie camera, and see how much of the essence of the event you can catch. It is all fragments until you smooze into the Premier Editing Suit.

A movie set is a dynamic event that is always changing and what is carefully planned in the preproduction studio can go, and will go south very quickly.

I studied with Tom Gries, Edward Anholt and worked Jim Gross and other... been there, and I know the pressure... quicksilver in the hands of a producer unless the screenplay is solid, the director is made of steel, and the editor a genius.

I've  four written works, turned into screenplays and none of them satisfied me.  However, now, I always write in 1st person present, and in the back of my mind, I have the structure of novel-to-screenplay always running and running and running.

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11 Reply by j p lundstrom (edited by j p lundstrom 2016-11-16 03:01:57)

Re: The trouble with the movies

You're so right about the movies. They work in visuals, and I suppose they would rather please the eye than portray real life.

I write a lot of stories set in the mid-twentieth century (1940s, 1950s and 1960s) I do remember some things, like they way people spoke and dressed, but most things I have to research. Try finding the dating hotspots in postwar Detroit!
My favorite sources are the books written during these times. The language, the recollections of events, the police procedures of the day (we would consider them nonexistent), medical treatment, etc., etc., etc.. Whether they're professionals writing in their fields or novelists writing fiction, they all contribute to a realistic picture of the day.
The best source ever of information about pioneer Texans was a journal written by a woman. The title was Days of Sunshine, Days of Rain. It's not available now--I found it languishing in a corner in a small-town public library.
That's how you do the research that enables you to write a realistic story.
Lucky for me I enjoy the hunt.  JP

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