Savior of the Damned (the Connor series) by Dirk B. (Page 58 of 59)

We have no hard rules about following the genres in this forum. At one time, it was just medieval fantasy/magic, but the forum, having been one of the few that was thriving, attracted a rather eclectic group, including writers of sci-fi, steampunk, and romance. Since many of those folks helped me by reviewing and brainstorming for my demented space opera (Archangel), quite a few ended up as characters in the novel.

What's the name of the series?

(1) That series title doesn't roll off the tongue. "Gathering Darkness," sure. "As Darkness Gathers," not so much. "I really love the 'As Darkness Gathers' series." vs "I really love the 'Gathering Darkness' series."

(2) The series name sounds more like a book title, and vice versa. "I really love the first book of 'The Emissary' series, As Darkness Gathers."

Just my opinion.

What are the other book titles?

"Gathers the Darkness"  ?

Less likely to collide with other books' titles, maybe?

Sorry if this is useless but I read above and tried some new names. I think they're somewhat clean from previous usage.

Earth's Twilight
Heavenly Twilight
The Twilight Grows
The Twilight Spirit
The Twilight Chronicles (album from 2006)
Chronicles of the New Christ

Okay. I'm stuck. I'm writing a scene set in the year 430, the year St. Augustine died. The Church of Rome (chief diocese of the Western Christian Church) had received a letter and scroll supposedly written by Augustine the day of his death after experiencing a holy vision about the End Times, including the coming of the Emissary, a boy sent by Christ to purge the Catholic Church of latter-day Pharisees and replace them with the Lambs of the Lord, teenage priests and priestesses, who will deliver God's final warning to humanity to seek refuge in the Catholic Church during the End Times. In other words, join the Catholic Church, which will be led by Connor, who is actually the Antichrist.

The letter and scroll were actually written by Satan, setting up Connor's arrival and conquest of the Catholic Church sixteen hundred years into the future. Satan not only wrote the documents, he's a senior figure in the Church of Rome in 430 and participates in the meeting itself, attempting to steer the meeting where he wants it to go.

I'm looking for a way that the Antichristus dagger (forged by God for Connor) could affect the future if Connor were to throw it at Christ when the time comes (as opposed to throwing it at Satan, his other option). God decided when he accepted Satan's Last Challenge that he would accept Connor as the one to make that final decision. If Connor throws it at Christ, then Satan wins. Not only does he not burn forever in the Lake of Fire, but he ends up in control of Earth, ruling all grave sinners. Further, God promised that he would return to the spirit realm and never return.

In order to remain compatible with the Book of Revelation yet still tell my story, Satan says in the meeting that he believes the Lake of Fire is actually a metaphor for Earth, devastated by the events of the Apocalypse during the End Times. Since the "New Earth" of Revelation for saved Christians (those who survived the Last Judgment) is often seen as a reference to a *renewed* Earth, clearly Earth can't be both. So, Satan suggests that the New Earth is actually a reference to a slightly different realm between Earth and Heaven that is where the Garden of Eden is located. That realm is "new" only insofar as it has remained "new", just as it existed when God drove Adam and Eve from there. According to Satan, that's where saved Christians will go.

However, if Satan wins the Last Challenge, it hardly seems sufficient for God to leave Earth with his saved people. That's not much of a victory for Satan since that's what would happen anyway: Satan and grave sinners will wind up in the Lake of Fire and God will live with his saved people on a New Earth.

There needs to be more to Satan's victory. I'm still considering that if Christ is hit by the dagger thrown by Connor, it would cause an end to the hypostatic union, separating the Lord's spirit from the physical body of Jesus. Since the dagger is a physical object, it ought to have a physical impact, hence the end to the union. Further, there ought to be no salvation at all, for anyone. Those people, too, should be left for Satan to rule.

The problem lies with the idea of no salvation. I'm trying to treat Revelation prophecies as being just as accurate as the prophecies written by Augustine (Satan) on his deathbed.

My explanation for why the Emissary isn't mentioned in Revelation is because he comes before the Second Coming, fulfills his destiny, then is killed in a battle to the death against the Antichrist.

As noted above, I have a way that Earth can be the Lake of Fire yet still accommodate the New Earth of Revelation.

What I don't have is a way for salvation to be eliminated (if Satan wins the Last Challenge) without invalidating the prophecies of Revelation. Also, an end to the hypostatic union violates Revelation prophecies.

I definitely don't want to simply ignore these plot problems, but I also don't see a way to reconcile them.

For what it's worth, Connor will ultimately throw the dagger at Satan, so the events in Satan's documents of him winning will never come to pass, nor should they since it's just a bunch of BS made up by Satan in the first place. But he needs to be able to explain how those events could reconcile with Revelation in the meeting in 430, otherwise his fellow meeting attendees will never believe Augustine wrote the documents.

For the life of me, I don't see a way to explain the differences (eg no salvation, end of the hypostatic union) in a way that can reconcile them, even if I were to claim some of differences are really just a matter of interpretation

Hi Tamsin. My apologies for not responding sooner. I'm still massaging things, but I think I simplified things enough for the chapter to work. Since Augustine's real-life views conflict with my story, I'll have Satan include in Augustine's cover letter to the pope that some of what Augustine saw in his supposed holy vision disagreed with his own well-known views, which gives me the flexibility to break a few rules. Of course, the reader learns at the end of book one that the holy vision documented by Augustine was actually written by Satan, so stuff doesn't have to happen as Satan suggested. That fixes most of it.

In book three, the reader learns that God the Father accepted Satan's challenge, including some harsh (totally heretical) consequences, because he knew Satan would be unable to truly corrupt Connor (indirectly, his son) into throwing the supernatural dagger, created by the Father, at Christ. Christ, naturally, could easily sidestep the dagger, but he agreed as part of the Last Challenge to stand still and accept whatever Connor decides to do. The only way Satan could win would be if he actually showed Connor that he loved him, which he doesn't. Even faking it doesn't occur him.

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I spent part of the evening farting around with Gemini, getting it to analyze my trilogy (themes, archetypes, biblical connections, etc.) and some back and forth on the series title. It didn't like "As Darkness Gathers" either. :-) It gave me a bunch of suggestions for alternate titles, all of which stunk. But the chat did lead me to "Savior of the Damned - An Apocalyptic Saga" which has a nice double meaning: In book one, Connor is the supposed Emissary of the Lord, come on behalf of God for one last attempt to turn people from evil and save them before the imminent Last Judgment. Of course, at the end of book 1, you learn he's really the Antichrist. Then at the end of book 3, he learns that he was always intended to rule the damned (those not saved) across The Thousand Worlds, punishment planets (part of the "virtual" Lake of Fire) of various levels of severity for different degrees of sin/evil (Hitler and Stalin will be neighbors, lol), and that Connor's real task, as the immortal Lesser King, is to lead them all to holiness. The more holy a population becomes, the more paradise-like their worlds will become as well. Naturally, there's much more to it.

EDIT: Just realized when I shortened the book one title to The Emissary that I forgot to check how often that title has been used (way too much). So, the book one title will have to go back to The Holy Emissary.

The term grave sin is often used interchangeably with mortal sin, although a grave sin refers more to the act itself (e.g., murder), whereas a mortal sin is a grave sin/grave act done with full knowledge that it's wrong/serious but you did it anyway/deliberately.

Remember Connor's background: He considers himself the son of Satan, which to a certain extent, he is; he was kidnapped by Satan and raised since infancy by him and his minions, indoctrinated into Satan's lies; and he's genetically bred with an overwhelming need to follow Satan, which he doesn't realize until the middle of book 2. All of that makes it plausible that he might throw the dagger at Christ.

The dagger was originally in Satan's possession. It was forged by God for Connor to wield, includes the word Antichristus engraved in the handle (i.e., it's clearly labelled for Connor), and it is delivered to Connor when he is stabbed with it at the Vatican.

If you believe that humans are the only sentient species in the universe made in God's image, then leaving Satan to rule it all is no big deal since everything is racing away from us anyway. God would be leaving Satan to rule the galaxy/universe, with no tech to get from star to star. The tech that Connor will eventually use to help him rule The Thousand Worlds won't exist if Satan wins. So really, he's just getting the Solar System.

God doesn't have to worry about the severity of the terms if Satan wins since Satan will never realize that he has to love Connor or at least pretend to in order to keep Connor from turning away from him.

God will leave Creation behind anyway, moving with those who are saved to Eden in a different dimension. Although the Earth will be renewed, it will be done for Connor to use as the heart of his kingdom and the seat of his throne.

If he wanted. I suppose. Eden, in this case, is in a different dimension - still on Earth, but separate from the "fallen" part of our world. Gemini suggests that's a reasonable way to frame it since the geographic details given in the Bible about real-world rivers downstream from Eden are physically impossible in our dimension (those rivers don't have a common source).

Assuming Satan loses (what are the odds?), he and the rest of the demons will also end up in the "virtual" Lake of Fire, which consists of a burning pool somewhere in a cave in the Holy Land (the entrance to the lake), with a portal at the bottom, leading to the virtual LOF, including the Thousand Worlds (TW), the fallen Earth, and Sagittarius A*, the black hole at the center of the Milky Way.

Satan and co. will end up on an asteroid spiralling into the black hole. Most of the damned will end up on one of the TW, with varying degrees of harshness; you end up on a world commensurate with the gravity of your mortal sins (i.e., how much of a dick you were in life).

Connor also ends up in the LOF, but the portal brings him directly back to the fallen Earth of our dimension (e.g., just outside the cave with the burning pool, where he threw himself in). Like all the other damned, he can't go back through the portal and emerge in the cave, so he too, technically, is stuck forever in the virtual LOF, and fallen Earth becomes his base.