just got burned by the "no inline reviews for free members" issue (Page 2 of 2)

I joined TNBW  two years and a half ago (Wow! Times flies) because, as stated in my bio, I'd been writing since I was kid and decided to get serious and publish. However, I had no idea whether my writing would meet the quality required for publishing, so I needed somebody else to review and critique my work. I'd heard about web sites where literary work could be workshoped, so I checked the web. I find several sites  besides TNBW. There's one, for example, dedicated exclusively for Fantasy, but my genre is YA. Other sites have a lot of requirements because they are designed for professional writers, people who have already published and have a bunch of experience, which discouraged me, an amateur.

I finally found TNBW. Since the very beginning, in the old website, I enrolled as an author (not as a reviewer) because I wanted to publish and have my work reviewed. My main interest was not to read somebody else's work--I could do that very easily perusing the Kindle store and selecting something already published and ready to be read.

I understand perfectly well that I'm no Stephen King or JK Rowling. So, I can't publish a draft and sit down waiting for thousands of readers to stand in line outside the bookstores to buy it. I need to reciprocate and participate in a network of people who help each other. I like TNBW because it's a community of people helping people, and of people interested in people.

As I've already stated, I think the points system is a wise way to encourage reviewing. Some of the sites I studied before joining TNBW used no points. You only publish and wait for somebody to check your work. Of course, in those sites like in TNBW, reciprocating is the magic formula to be reviewed. You read something somebody else published, then that somebody reads yours. While that system sounds pretty good it doesn't encourage reviews. The points system does. For example, I am almost done publishing my first novel ever Amber Eyes. I have to publish the last three chapters, but they are large, so I need a pretty good amount of points (about 12 points each chapter). I am currently reading 4 TNBW novels. In this moment,  I have 0.5 points. Any chapter of any of those stories I'm reading now gives you between 1 and 1.5 points. It's a long way to earning 12. So, today, I was checking what has been published lately, searching for something that would give me en extra bulky amount of points to start with toward the 12 I need. I bumped into Michelle8's Gerbeaud, a  short story in two parts which, besides giving the very interesting amount of 4.58 points if you read and comment both parts, is a wonderful short story worth anybody's time (actually, I'd like to recommend it, it's a wonderful short story).

So, thanks the points system, I found a very valuable literary piece. Hadn't the point system existed, most likely I'd have limited my reviewing to the 4 novels I'm currently reading and would have missed Michelle8's  jewel. Of course, there's people in TNBW who constantly review other author's work for the sake and pleasure of reviewing. However, if there's a way in which the site encourages reviewing, all of us will profit from it because more writers will review our work and we will review more stories from other authors. There have been times in which I've needed half of a point to publish and then I've looked for a poem to review. In the process, I've found masterpieces which otherwise I might have otherwise overlooked. I'm sure it happens the same to many other writers.

All of the above is the benefit of being a Premium Writer, and that's why I want to continue being one. Amber Eyes is my first novel, but I'm already working on the second one, so I will continue here supporting other writers reviewing their work for them to support me. I've been checking some of the material recently published in the non-premium site. What I've seen are few critiques. I believe it is, one, because many are new writers whom have not yet built a network, and, two, because there's little motivation for other writers to review something that is not providing them any points. Of course, a certain writer may review the new writer's work expecting the new writer to reciprocate, but chances are few because the lack of a points system doesn't encourage the non-premium members to reciprocate. In the end, they can publish a full novel for free and only sit down and wait until somebody reviews it--which is one of the reasons I didn't join other workshop sites where no points system existed, I didn't want my work to sit there with nobody reading and reviewing it.

God, what a large post! It's evident I love to write, doesn't it?

Kiss,

Gacela.

Hi Sol

The reason I joined was simply it suits my lifestyle and personality. With a group, you need to attend meetings in person and I just don't have that predictability in my life. TNBW gives me the freedom/randomness so to speak to post, review and be reviewed at all times and any times! The other strength this site has is numbers. You get detail/nit reviewers, big picture reviewers, picking up dropped balls reviewers and any combination you can think of. Then there is the like mindedness, we all know what it's like to write, to struggle, to juggle, so the support is beyond what I ever expected.

I've never looked back, one of my better decisions!

As a side note, inline reviews have it's strenghts too. When you have a lot of nits, comments or feedback, you can't beat an in-line.

Hope this makes sense.
Cheers Janet

Just as a side note, and this is just my opinion, the in-line review is awesome for reviewers.  But not so much when you try to incorporate those suggestions/nits/comments as a writer (yet, I think Sol may have some tricks up his sleeve which is coming soon).  Regular reviews I can copy to Word, print and have it next to me when I do the changes to the original.  I don't always print, and regular reviews do lend itself better towards split "windows" to have the original file and the site open next to each other.  With in-line reviews, I either have to make notes or alt-tab between my Word file and the site, not to mention having to click on every single highlight.  And this is what this site is about, to review and be reviewed.  And I sincerely think that in-line reviews favor the one (the reviewer in this case).

Unless I'm missing something, in which case, please let me know if there is an easier way to transfer an in-line review to your original!

I like the inline because I can open up double browsers,put them side by side, one window open to the review and the other to the edit page of my chapter. Correcting nits is so much easier that way.

There's no question that it's slick for entry, so long as you don't want to connect multiple sections of text, to compare or contrast.  But the entry is marred somewhat by the way the input window parks itself over the text.

The problem comes when you want to read it, or put it all together, or print it out to review curled up in a chair without the limits of the computer (or tablet).

Inline review easier for reviewer or author? Obviously a rhetorical question. It depends on where you are coming from. We are each going to do things which make our own lives easier presumably. If I am reviewing I will do it the best way for me whether old school or inline - I actually do both at times depending upon the piece being reviewed and how detailed I wish to be; I generally read the entire work first and determine my overall input at that time.

If I am an author receiving a review, then I don't care which method it is because I am the recipient of someone's time and effort to help me and will not look the proverbial gifthorse in the mouth so to speak. If it is best for the reviewer of my work to use an inline review I will gladly suffer what some consider a burden to open the highlighted areas one at a time and decide if the suggestion, if any, merits my changing something in the story. If it does I'll remember it, write it down, or copy and paste it to a cumulative page where each and every one can be gone over with a fine tooth comb as often as need be.

BTW, if I should give anyone an inline review which is too burdensome for them, please let me know and I will cease and desist; would hate to waste both of our times, especially mine. Take care. Vern

Hi, Janet.  I  want you to know I am not upset in the least.  That being said, I have read two other folks here claim the inline review benefits the reviewer more than the author and that simply stuns me and causes me to pause and wonder if I'm understanding what is really being said.

How can ANY review benefit the person who gave their time to read and thoughtfully leave suggestions towards improvement more than the one who is receiving said input on their work? 

In other words, just what does the reviewer get for their efforts?  Especially what could they get that benefits them more than the author they gave input to?

I just don't get that.

I mean I've seen reviews where the min. suggestions are given within the first few graphs and then not one single comment given to the rest of the work which consist of about two-thirds  then leave a general statement made to rap things up so it's clear they are only reviewing to get points to post their latest work, but selfish reviews will be given by those sorts no matter which format is followed, and even at the bare min. the author still has five or six (I forget which) suggestion towards improvement. 

I have given both sorts.  When I first started to review I gave overall comments because I knew so little I could only offer my view and opinions as a reader.   As I grew as a writer I started to leave line by line reviews.  Line by line reviews, aka in-line reviews, are the most detailed and most helpful sort of a review one can give or receive.  They take a great deal of time when done properly.  I fail to see how my giving an hour or more of my time to improve someone else's writing instead of my own benefits me.

Are we talking about the format when we say inline review or are we talking about the review its self?  Is it the way the in-line is sat up that folks are saying benefits the reviewer more than the author?

Again, I am not upset with you or anyone  I'm just  wondering if I'm missing something here, so PLEASE don't take my comments personally or feel I am trying to pick a fight, because honestly and from the bottom of my heart I am not

no prob, Janet Reid.  I think I finally figured out what is really being addressed which is changes to the inline with the drop down boxes.  Some find those annoying.  Am I correct?

one author stated he felt the changes allowed/encouraged reviewers to leave poor reviews.  LOL  I say those who are going to do a poor job reviewing will no matter what is set in place, just as those who will give a well thought out review will too. 

I am just now making my first edits from an inline review.  I pulled up two screens one with the review  the other with my to be edited chapter and I have to say I LOVE THE CHANGES.  It takes me half the time it used to and I no longer am left guessing which passage a reviewer is commenting on.

As someone else said, it's all subjective and each has their own preference but this girl couldn't be more happy be she the reviewer or the author

clicking a little box man oh man, that's SO much easier than having to cut and paste, scrolling up and down.  having to find where you left off each time  It's one of the main reasons I went MIA.  Too much time to review instead of writing.  This way is SO much easier and I find I'm giving better more detailed reviews because I have the time.  Of course, I have three reviews saved until tomorrow because I didn't have time to finish them today

Final comment from me, then I'll leave it at that. 

The changes Sol made to the regular review format on the new site made a huge difference.  No more scrolling up and down all the time or having to find where you've been.  If you have to go back to check something or include a new thought that had occurred in the mean time, both formats involve scrolling up and down - in-line will be slightly easier to get back to where you have left off, but only marginally, unless you only scroll away after you've made a comment/suggestion, otherwise you still have to re-read some text to pick it up again.  Hope this makes sense.

And KHippolite also touched on a good point - it's easier to read other regular reviews than in-line reviews.  I would be interested to know if everyone still read other reviews as much as they had on the old site. 

Personally, I don't.  I only read the regular reviews left by others and not so much in-line reviews left by others.  Because of what KHippolite said - it's time consuming and in case you haven't noticed yet, I'm lazy and no fan of clicking a mouse all the time (and maybe old ).  To me, it is/was part of my learning curve as a reviewer - to see what I have missed and how others do reviews.  So I hope others are still doing it!

But, this is what Sol and the team got right with the new site IMO - we now have a choice and can choose which option works best for us - in-line or regular or both.  It's a personal preference, and by saying that I like regular reviews more or that I find in-line reviews cumbersome, I'm not saying that that in-line reviews are crap.  I'm only saying what works for me, and I think in-line reviews can still be improved and that it would not have swayed me personally to become a premium member which was the question posed way back when (or one of the questions).

Cheers Janet

When you type, your fingers are where they need to be and information pours out.  When you mouse-and-click, you have to give your attention to the mechanics of input.  When you have to do  this over and over to get information, it is far more costly in time and far more disruptive of your mental work-stream than scanning down a page by eye movement.