Re: SHOOTINGS AND THE SHIT THAT FOLLOWS...

NJC: The question should be 'Why do young people in today's society become so alienated that they turn to nihilism?'

Maybe it's because the current laws don't reflect their progressive values and the lawmakers themselves don't represent the changing demographic. You can try to blame video games and social media and whatnot but Atilla the Hun, Adolph Hitler, Ted Bundy and etcetera never played video games or got catfished on Instagram. I venture that most killers are driven by perceived injustice or delusions of grandeur or both. I dunno. I'm talking thru my hat for the most part. As inexcusable as the reason may be, it's still frustrating when a guy like Hitler or the Las Vegas shooter commit atrocities and then kill themselves before they can be interrogated. Hopefully this latest kid will illuminate the pathology but... I doubt it.

The only things --the only reactionable things, that is-- these random American villains have in common are masculinity and access to deadly weaponry. Cut all our balls off or cut off all the ammunition. You make the call.

27 (edited by John Hamler 2018-02-20 07:08:13)

Re: SHOOTINGS AND THE SHIT THAT FOLLOWS...

The only "citizens" who oughta have guns (I'm looking at you, Rhiannon) are cops and criminals. Period. They made the choice to live dangerously and more power to them. For the most part they operate in a vacuum. The rest of us wanna live peacefully and without fear. If it so happens that some animal asshole indiscriminately chooses you to suffer his violent impulses/greed? Well, life ain't always fair. But I reckon you'll have a better chance of living long enough to fight back fairly if you DON'T defend yourself with a gun. Because it's more than likely that the animal you corner will take that gun away from a decent citizen like yourself and plant it right down your throat or straight up your puckered ass. Period.

It's almost to the point where we shame victims and romanticize vigilantes. As heroes in this culture.

"What, nigga? He yelled at your kid? He hit on your wife and made fun of your shoes? Hell, you're a pussy, man. I woulda shot that bitch-ass motherfucker in his face!"

I grew up in New York City in the 1970's and early 80's. Nearly every member of my family fell victim to the whims of a criminal at one time or another. Muggings and beatings and robberies, etc. It caused aggravation and anger and people were fed up, but, thanks to cooler heads (and unarmed arms) prevailing... Nobody actually died. Well, except for my Uncle Chilo. He was murdered on the street --an unsolved crime-- but everyone knew that he was a lifelong hot-headed gangster himself! And we, as a family, treated the incident accordingly. Sad, yes, but part and parcel with the lifestyle he'd chosen.

Then Bernie Goetz happened. Look him up if you don't know who I'm talking about. What kind of society are we promoting when we acquit and celebrate someone accused of cold-blooded murder under the guise of righteous fear? That's akin to saying the terrorists are winning, you ask me. In fact, Bernie Goetz might have been the catalyst for the NRA's ascendancy to this day. The very reason lunatics have access to guns and, not only the will to pull the trigger, but the delusional justification, too!

Stop making excuses and stop the nonsense. If you really need a gun to feel safe in this world then maybe you ain't really ready to contribute to this world.

Period.

John

Re: SHOOTINGS AND THE SHIT THAT FOLLOWS...

*I understand that blind Trump hate is very hip and trendy, albeit somewhat justified; but that constant reflex tends to prejudice any true or balanced political discussion.*

Yes, it's very hip and trendy to slam Trump, but it ain't blind. The President "sees" to such imbalance Himself.

Re: SHOOTINGS AND THE SHIT THAT FOLLOWS...

John Hamler wrote:

The only "citizens" who oughta have guns (I'm looking at you, Rhiannon) are cops and criminals. Period....

....Stop making excuses and stop the nonsense. If you really need a gun to feel safe in this world then maybe you ain't really ready to contribute to this world.

Period.

John

Well done, Sir.  I haven’t seen such a well laid blow to a hornets’ nest in quite some time.  Reap the whirlwind.
*finds cover to watch the fireworks*

Re: SHOOTINGS AND THE SHIT THAT FOLLOWS...

Bevin Wallace wrote:
John Hamler wrote:

The only "citizens" who oughta have guns (I'm looking at you, Rhiannon) are cops and criminals. Period....

....Stop making excuses and stop the nonsense. If you really need a gun to feel safe in this world then maybe you ain't really ready to contribute to this world.

Period.

John

Well done, Sir.  I haven’t seen such a well laid blow to a hornets’ nest in quite some time.  Reap the whirlwind.
*finds cover to watch the fireworks*

I will second the well done.

Memphis Trace

Re: SHOOTINGS AND THE SHIT THAT FOLLOWS...

John Hamler wrote:

In light of, but not to make light of,  the latest mass shooting in Florida...

Real world policy is a different animal. If "access" is how we define "liberty" then how do we, as "liberal/irreligious" Americans, discuss gun control without dismissing or disenfranchising those who cling to the Second Amendment as if it were American Gospel?

The Second Amendment, among several critical aspects of the Revolution against despotism the American Left wishes to reimpose, is American Gospel in literal and figurative manner.

There is a difference between lions and asses, and he is a fool who knows not that swords were given to men that none might be slaves. - Discourses Concerning Government, Algernon Sidney

The dead and injured at Douglas HS in Parkland, Florida are wholly victims from a corrupt and dysfunctional government in state and local up to the federal, the schools, the mental health governance, and not from a boy, who as an autistic sociopath, cannot know what he has done. Who should be punished and corrected (notwithstanding the malfeasance and perhaps the criminal actions of the "adoptive" family for the boy) ought to be the state school administration, the local police and FBI.

32 (edited by Charles_F_Bell 2018-02-20 11:09:13)

Re: SHOOTINGS AND THE SHIT THAT FOLLOWS...

And may I say further that those who wish to overturn the ongoing Revolution against slavery that is America, that you cannot succeed, and emigration to those slave societies, islamic and socialist or the merely corrupt kleptocracies of Africa and Asia -- the s***holes of the world -- so admired and defended by the Left, is an option at any time.

Re: SHOOTINGS AND THE SHIT THAT FOLLOWS...

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

a boy, who as an autistic sociopath, cannot know what he has done.

I started to reply, “How would you know?” And then it dawned on me...

Re: SHOOTINGS AND THE SHIT THAT FOLLOWS...

Bevin Wallace wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:

a boy, who as an autistic sociopath, cannot know what he has done.

I started to reply, “How would you know?” And then it dawned on me...

News reports of his interactions with Florida government social services

35 (edited by Memphis Trace 2018-02-20 13:40:02)

Re: SHOOTINGS AND THE SHIT THAT FOLLOWS...

A promising area to consider:

How Banks Could Control Gun Sales if Washington Won’t

By Andrew Ross Sorkin

Feb. 19, 2018
For the past year, chief executives have often talked about the new sense of moral responsibility that corporations have to help their communities and confront social challenges even when Washington won’t.

In the aftermath of the school shooting in Parkland, Fla., that killed 17 students and staff members — and at a time when Washington shows little interest in limiting the sales of assault weapons — there’s a real opportunity for the business community to fill the void and prove that all that talk about moral responsibility isn’t hollow.

Here’s an idea.

What if the finance industry — credit card companies like Visa, Mastercard and American Express; credit card processors like First Data; and banks like JPMorgan Chase and Wells Fargo — were to effectively set new rules for the sales of guns in America?

Collectively, they have more leverage over the gun industry than any lawmaker. And it wouldn’t be hard for them to take a stand.

PayPal, Square, Stripe and Apple Pay announced years ago that they would not allow their services to be used for the sale of firearms.

“We do not believe permitting the sale of firearms on our platform is consistent with our values or in the best interests of our customers,” a spokesman for Square told me.

The big financial firms don’t even have to go that far.

For example, Visa, which published a 71-page paper in 2016 espousing its “corporate responsibility,” could easily change its terms of service to say that it won’t do business with retailers that sell assault weapons, high-capacity magazines and bump stocks, which make semiautomatic rifles fire faster. (Even the National Rifle Association has said it would support tighter restrictions on bump stocks.)

If Mastercard were to do the same, assault weapons would be eliminated from virtually every firearms store in America because otherwise the sellers would be cut off from the credit card system.

There is precedent for credit card issuers to ban the purchase of completely legal products. Just this month, JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup and Bank of America banned the use of their cards to buy Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

To be clear: Those three banks won’t let you use your credit card to buy Bitcoin, but they will happily let you use it to buy an AR-15-style semiautomatic rifle — the same kind of gun used in mass shootings in Parkland; Newtown, Conn.; San Bernardino, Calif.; Las Vegas; and Sutherland Springs, Tex.

Visa, oddly enough, is the card of choice of the N.R.A.: There is actually an N.R.A.-branded Visa card issued by First Bankcard, a division of First National Bank of Omaha. And Mastercard proudly announced last year that it was the branded card for Cabela’s, an outdoor gear megastore with a seemingly limitless assault-weapon catalog.

Visa spokesmen did not reply to several emails seeking comment. A spokesman for Mastercard sent a boilerplate statement that expressed “disgust with recent events, including last week in Florida.”

“Our payments network is governed by standards that have been established over time,” the statement said. “Chief among these is that we do not and will not permit merchants to engage in unlawful activity on our network.” He said the company would continue to talk to customers and lawmakers about its policies.

If Visa and Mastercard are unwilling to act on this issue, the credit card processors and banks that issue credit cards could try. Jamie Dimon, chief executive of JPMorgan Chase, which issues credit cards and owns a payment processor, has talked about how he and his bank have “a moral obligation but also a deeply vested interest” in helping “solve pressing societal challenges.” This is your chance, Mr. Dimon.

And here’s a variation on the same theme: What if the payment processing industry’s biggest customers — companies like McDonald’s, Starbucks, Apple, Amazon, AT&T, CVS and others that regularly talk about “social responsibility” — collectively pressured the industry to do it? There’s a chance that some of the payment processors would stop handling gun sales. Perhaps their voices would help push one of the banks to step out and lead?

Is all of this a pipe dream? Maybe, but I spent the last 72 hours calling and emailing a handful of chief executives to discuss these ideas. None wanted to speak on the record, because it’s a hot-button topic. But all applauded the idea and some said they had already been thinking about it. A few, I discovered later, called their peers to begin a conversation.

At least two executives said a reason that they haven’t been more outspoken yet is that they fear reprisals from the N.R.A. and other gun supporters — not just in the form of boycotts that could affect their bottom line, but also actions that could imperil the safety of their employees.

Obviously there would be opposition. When Peter Thiel, the co-founder of PayPal, was asked at a conference about his former company’s decision to not do business with firearms merchants, he made his displeasure clear. “No, I wouldn’t be doing that if I was still running it,” said Mr. Thiel, who left the company years ago and is a supporter of President Trump.

Perhaps the biggest stumbling block to an approach like this are companies like Walmart, which has huge sway over the financial industry. While Walmart stopped selling assault rifles in 2015, it might look askance at any policy by a bank issuer or credit card company to limit the kinds of products it sells.

Critics of using the finance industry to influence gun sales might argue that such a move would be discriminatory against gun retailers. But gun sellers are not a protected class, like age, race, gender, religion or even political affiliation. This would be a strictly commercial decision.

Another critique is that it is impossible to prevent every shooting, no matter how guns are restricted. And the banks’ actions would affect millions of their own law-abiding customers, effectively dictating what they can and cannot buy.

The most troubling aspect of having the finance industry try to restrict gun sales is that it would push the most dangerous guns into an untraceable world where sales would depend on cash. That’s true. All things considered, though, it would make it considerably harder to even find such guns.

There are other sectors of the finance industry that could step up. For example, Lloyd’s of London is the favored insurance company for gun shows. It could pull out.

None of this is a panacea. But it’s a start. It takes leadership and courage — exactly what these executives say they have. If they don’t want to back up their words with actions, the next time there’s a school shooting that prompts a conversation about gun companies, it should also include the financial complex that supports them.

Memphis Trace

36 (edited by Bevin Wallace 2018-02-20 14:29:23)

Re: SHOOTINGS AND THE SHIT THAT FOLLOWS...

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
Bevin Wallace wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:

a boy, who as an autistic sociopath, cannot know what he has done.

I started to reply, “How would you know?” And then it dawned on me...

News reports of his interactions with Florida government social services

Whew!! Well, I’m just relieved to know that we have a system that puts a wheelbarrow load of guns, including an AR-15, in the hands of someone that somehow has the sense (and money) to buy them, but then can’t be held accountable for what he does with them, including slaughtering a bunch of kids. 

God bless the USA. Please.

Gotta run now.  My kid’s 3rd grade class is raffling off an AR-15.  Fun never stops!!

Re: SHOOTINGS AND THE SHIT THAT FOLLOWS...

Political discussions are not what the Premium Group was designed for. It's a writing focused Group. If you want to have a political discussion, please do it in a Group open to this type of debate. Thank you.

Sol