Topic: Can you receive too much support?

There's a prayer my grandmother used to say. I don't remember it very well, but she mentioned a series of bad things adding the necessary "deliver us, Oh Lord".

It goes something like this: "From pestilence, famine and war, deliver us, O Lord." (and it goes on and on).

My father, who is a very practical man, uses to add "From the obliging, deliver us, Oh, Lord."

Could it be possible that you get too much help, up to the point it becomes useless and even hindering,  that you ask our Lord to deliver us from the too obliging folk?

I think it could, because it'd just happened to me.

I published 276 words as chapter 1 to my next novel--just a teaser--and a very kind TNBW reviewer rewrote every paragraph of it. No kiddin', every paragraph! According to the reviewer, they spit out some ideas for restructuring and giving my story more colour (well, they actually wrote "color", but since I learnt English in the UK I say "colour"). Spit out? They vomited a whole new story! More colour? It now looks like  Pantone catalogue!

So, my question is: could it be possible that I’ve just received too much help? I know my English permanently needs improvement, that I never get the prepositions right, that I write in black and white, and that some of my stories only make sense only if you read them backwards, but what this reviewer did is simply useless. I was thinking of asking the reviewer to write the story instead of me, but then I thought I would probably sound sarcastic, impolite--in the end, that reviewer was trying to help me improving my troglodyte English--so and decided better not to do it.

Kiss,
Gacela

Quote Post 1

Re: Can you receive too much support?

There's an art to reviewing - sounds pretentious, but it's true, taking the literal meaning of the word. A reviewer is not a publisher's editor or agent and must take the story as presented, despite their own ideas of how they would do it differently. Suggesting a change in sentence structure, or even recommending rearranging a paragraph is fine. But not a rewrite of the story. Thankfully, I have not had such a reviewer, but I feel your chagrin. There are, however, a few reviewers I've encountered  here who want to rewrite almost every sentence. Not because of grammatical issues, but just because they prefer a different way to say the same thing. Reviews don't come from on high, so feel free to ignore the ones that don't help you attain the vision you had when starting out with the project.

Quote Post 2

Re: Can you receive too much support?

When reviewing, I always tell the author to use what might help and ignore the rest -- I make that statement in ways that relate to the story such as bury it, kill it, feed it to the dogs, etc. Your job as author is to know the difference and if any suggestion/review makes you uncomfortable that could be a good hint. Take care. Vern

Quote Post 3

Re: Can you receive too much support?

I love getting reviews, but I hate somebody trying to rewrite every word I've written.  Been there, don't like it. Don't get me wrong - a suggestion here and there is great and appreciated.  But to highlight every single paragraph is ridiculous unless I have asked them to do it in advance.

Last time it happened to me, I returned the review with this:  "I appreciate all the time you spent rewriting my chapter so it sounds like your voice instead of mine.  I am sure it was time-consuming but totally not necessary.  Due to the fact that both you and I are here, on this site called The Next Big Writer, probably shows that neither of us has a best-selling novel on the shelves of Barnes & Noble.  I would like that to happen one day, but until such time, I will continue to write in my voice and expect you will do the same.  My one suggestion to you would be that if my voice perturbs you that much, I think you would be better off to find something else to read.  Thanks for stopping by."

Quote Post 4

Re: Can you receive too much support?

(In my opinion)
It takes a while for some people to understand that reviewing is just that... you review the prose as it stands. Surrender an opinion upon the product.

Yes, you may point out mistakes (i.e. technical stuff -- typos and legitimate grammar issues) maybe suggest an alternate word choice, or two.

Anything other than the above is actually 'rewriting' and not reviewing.

You don't attempt to change the author's 'voice' into your own and you do not distract them from their style.

Yes, once a relationship has formed and both parties are happy to give and take, you can discuss ideas for plot expansion, story and character development and overall style etc. but this is not reviewing, this is collaborative development.   

I've had a few in past who seem very intent upon me turning my words into their words, my story into theirs.

There was loads upon this subject, a huge amount of discussion, knowledge, experience and debate within the forums of the old tNBW site. A gold mine, those old forums. Hundreds/thousands of hours of peoples voices. Some sparkling minds. Hardly a day goes past that I don't remember something valuable there within those old forums, which I can no longer access. There seems to be less investment within those kinds of group discussion subjects here on the new site. Some might say, why bother when it could all be gone by tomorrow?

Quote Post 5

6 Reply by Dill Carver (edited by Dill Carver 2017-10-02 23:55:00)

Re: Can you receive too much support?

Marilyn Johnson wrote:

I love getting reviews, but I hate somebody trying to rewrite every word I've written.  Been there, don't like it. Don't get me wrong - a suggestion here and there is great and appreciated.  But to highlight every single paragraph is ridiculous unless I have asked them to do it in advance."

A nice try MJ, but surely you meant...

I enjoy receiving reviews, but am less than pleased when somebody edits my words into their own. I've experienced it and it irks me. Please don't misunderstand - a few suggestions are greatly appreciated, but to focus intensely upon every paragraph is certainly not called for... unless we have entered in a collaborative development understanding.   

Marilyn Johnson wrote:

Last time it happened to me, I returned the review with this:...

 
..."I certainly don't appreciate all the time you spent grooming my Âne du Cotentin so it sounds like your Baudet du Poitou instead of mine. I am sure it was time-consuming but totally not necessary. Due to the fact that both you and I are here, on this site called The NextBigDonkeySanctuary, probably shows that neither of us has an Andalusian or an Âne grand noir du Berry in the stable...

Nay, I say. 

NAY!

Quote Post 6

Re: Can you receive too much support?

LOL!!!!

Quote Post 7

Re: Can you receive too much support?

Dill Carver wrote:
Marilyn Johnson wrote:

I love getting reviews, but I hate somebody trying to rewrite every word I've written.  Been there, don't like it. Don't get me wrong - a suggestion here and there is great and appreciated.  But to highlight every single paragraph is ridiculous unless I have asked them to do it in advance."

A nice try MJ, but surely you meant...

I enjoy receiving reviews, but am less than pleased when somebody edits my words into their own. I've experienced it and it irks me. Please don't misunderstand - a few suggestions are greatly appreciated, but to focus intensely upon every paragraph is certainly not called for... unless we have entered in a collaborative development understanding.   

Marilyn Johnson wrote:

Last time it happened to me, I returned the review with this:...

 
..."I certainly don't appreciate all the time you spent grooming my Âne du Cotentin so it sounds like your Baudet du Poitou instead of mine. I am sure it was time-consuming but totally not necessary. Due to the fact that both you and I are here, on this site called The NextBigDonkeySanctuary, probably shows that neither of us has an Andalusian or an Âne grand noir du Berry in the stable...

Nay, I say. 

NAY!

You've got to quit reading my mind, Dill!  How didja know??

Quote Post 8

Re: Can you receive too much support?

Mariana Reuter wrote:

There's a prayer my grandmother used to say. I don't remember it very well, but she mentioned a series of bad things adding the necessary "deliver us, Oh Lord".

It goes something like this: "From pestilence, famine, and war, deliver us, O Lord." (and it goes on and on).

My father, who is a very practical man, uses to add "From the obliging, deliver us, Oh, Lord."

Could it be possible that you get too much help, up to the point it becomes useless and even hindering,  that you ask our Lord to deliver us from the too obliging folk?

I think it could because it'd just happened to me.

I published 276 words as chapter 1 to my next novel--just a teaser--and a very kind TNBW reviewer rewrote every paragraph of it. No kiddin', every paragraph! According to the reviewer, they spit out some ideas for restructuring and giving my story more colour (well, they actually wrote "color", but since I learned English in the UK I say "colour"). Spit out? They vomited a whole new story! More colour? It now looks like  Pantone catalogue!

So, my question is: could it be possible that I’ve just received too much help? I know my English permanently needs improvement, that I never get the prepositions right, that I write in black and white, and that some of my stories only make sense only if you read them backward, but what this reviewer did is simply useless. I was thinking of asking the reviewer to write the story instead of me, but then I thought I would probably sound sarcastic, impolite--in the end, that reviewer was trying to help me improving my troglodyte English--so and decided better not to do it.

Kiss,
Gacela

I don't mind the occasional reworked sentence or reordered sentence.  Sometimes, it sounds better.  But if they are going to rewrite the whole thing until it doesn't sound like me anymore, why read it?  They obviously didn't find it interesting.

But maybe that's me.

Quote Post 9

10 Reply by njc

Re: Can you receive too much support?

"You've given me a lot to think about  I need to understand why you've suggested these changes and how I can use that within my own style."

I sometimes push hard in reviews, but I try to explain.

Quote Post 10

11 Reply by Dill Carver (edited by Dill Carver 2017-10-03 13:42:35)

Re: Can you receive too much support?

Marilyn Johnson wrote:

You've got to quit reading my mind, Dill!  How didja know??

Sorry for the horseplay MJ. smile I was merely demonstrating that a good reviewer pays no attention to the author. It is all about them, their interpretation and agenda and what they want your words to be. How else could we staff the press agencies?

Quote Post 11