Topic: Woes of a newbie

So I've been writing on and off for about 4 years. Started while incapacitated in hospital.
I think my writing has improved no-end, and there's no doubt, TNBW and it's members played a major part in that.
However, what hurt me the most was my own insecurities coupled with too many conflicting critiques. I'd surf from the highest wave too the deepest trough, only to be churned over like a rag doll in a washing machine, from a review I took to heart.
My point of writing this, is to hearten the newbies out there. Push through those points of self-doubt, take on board critiques and learn from them. Try to remember that books like 50 shades of Grey can soar to the top of the best seller lists, while others, maybe as accomplished as your favorite author might never be picked up. Sorry but J. K. is a perfect example, 30 rejections before success.
Now, well I've avoided TNBW for a while,as I need to complete my book first then I'll use TNBW to edit. Previously I'd been too quickto post my work. For a while I've been arranging my life to suit my writing. What I mean is, I'm quitting my job in IT to work for myself, all with the sole purpose of being able to write more often. I'm not an evening writer, or middle of the night writer. I really only function through the day. So fuck it, I only live once.
The real message to myself,  and to you, is, "Don't give up on yourself, if you're enjoying writing, well then...it's all that matters." (Never stop reading good writers, you never stop learning from them.)
So newbies, please hang in there; If you truly enjoy writing, then keep it going.

Good luck to you all.

Dave

2 (edited by Marilyn Johnson 2017-07-20 19:53:49)

Re: Woes of a newbie

Yes, Dave, you have to push on.  Not everyone is gonna like everything you write.  I've been on this site for 9 years, and I have received reviews where the reviewer tried to change my entire work to how they would have written it if they'd come up with my idea, but I've had more accolades from reviewers than I deserved also.  Sorry that one review affected your confidence in your writing abilities.  When I do reviews, I try to remember this is not my work, and it's not my ideas, so I work with what the author has written, knowing he/she has a particular goal in mind that I will find out about in an upcoming chapter.  I try to offer grammatical corrections, or thoughts on how your writing could flow better, but I will never tell you you're 100% wrong or that you need to go back to school to learn to write (as someone told me once). 

I was off the site for while tending to a sick husband, and I came back in January of this year.  My first week back I posted something I was working on, something I had spent months honing.  The very first review came from someone who tore my words and my concept apart with no idea what I had planned for the next chapter.  His parting words were hurtful and hateful, way beyond the call of duty.  I took the chapter down because he made me doubt my writing abilities and made me say, "I don't need this shit."  I did get over it and didn't let it cripple me, but it floored me that someone could be so rude.  While I am always open to suggestions and ideas, I don't tolerate rudeness.  There's a right way and a wrong way to critique someone's hard work.  So I feel your pain, and it has nothing to do with how long you've been on the site and everything to do with being kind.  If I don't like what you've written, I obviously don't have to read any more of it, but I believe in being kind in expressing my opinions and ideas because they are, after all, my opinions.   

I'm happy to hear you've decided to incorporate writing into your daily schedule.  You're definitely taking a leap of faith, and I admire the fact you didn't give up.  I agree with your advice to the newbies about hanging in there.

Good luck to you in your endeavors!

MJ

Re: Woes of a newbie

d a, congratulations on your decision to fit your (money-making) work to your writing, and not vice versa.  As to critics (random thoughts):  I watched an episode of Taxi where Bobby finally got fed up with critics and wrote a scathing one himself of the city's biggest play critic.  Then, he got a big break.  The critic shows up (deliberately).  Bobby, back in the Taxi garage, goes, "God.  I sucked, and that critic was there."  The critic comes in.  Shows the actor a glowing critique.  Bobby thanks him profusely.  Then the critic tears it up.  As Bobby is gathering the pieces, the critic says, "You see, if I wrote you a bad critique, that would make you a hero; if I wrote you a good one, that would make your career.  I didn't want to do either, given what you said about me.  So I won't say anything, and you'll fade away." Bobby replies:  "And I don't care about what you write.  I believe in my own judgment of my performance only."  As the critic growls and leaves, the Reverend Jim says to Bobby, "Yes and you thought you sucked."  lol

Seriously, the only opinion that counts is your own.  Follow your dream.

Re: Woes of a newbie

Thanks Rhiannon and Marilyn,  I'd forgotten how such kind and thoughtful words can lift.

What I have noticed is that in the years I've spent honing my work and re-writing work to counter bad critiques, other newbies have just got on with writing and self-publishing.  So if I can offer one big tip, JUST WRITE and complete your novel. Then put it down, for a month or two, go start another book in the mean time.  I recently re-read a chapter I'd not touched in a while, and well...I loved it. That's the biggest lift I've given myself in ages. Yes, in the end any book needs edited, honed, scenes cut-added but working with a completed novel is much much easier.

When I'm ready to, I'll be using TNBW just for editorial opinions, and not for personal opinions.

Thanks Ladies :-)

Re: Woes of a newbie

All kind of artists--writer, painters, musicians, etc.--are potential targets of critique. Remember: beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Thus, your work may both appeal and repeal people. Not only on TNBW, but also once it's published. Just look at the Amazon reviews. There are always chaps who think your story sucks just because, as well as chaps who find it cool without any reason for.

Granting that all critiques in TNBW are candid, not all reviewers are professional enough. Some think that, by being blunt, they are doing the writer a favour, for then the writer will easily realise her flaws. Others are so polite and subtle one ends up wondering what was exactly what the reviewer meant. Within those boundaries, each writer must decide what is valuable and what is not.

I wouldn't be concerned because of a one-time reviewer who randomly picks one of my chapters and pours vitriol over my story. Without context, even the best King's English may be mercilessly nit-picked, and a lose Romeo and Juliet scene considered an anecdote about two stupidly eager teenagers.  However, I'd be concerned if several of my reviewers, who have been following my story and are well aware of the plot, point all at the same weakness. It would be amateurish to turn a blind eye towards such shared observations based on the conceited belief that "only my opinion counts".

TNBW is not free of opportunistic point-gatherers who review at random, seldom providing meaningful advice. Either it is merciless or excessively flattering. That kind of review is easy to spot and discard.

Other problem that may happen is that your work may be reviewed by people who, in an effort to help you, are reviewing a genre they don't enjoy. For example, I'm not fond of Erotica. I found explicit descriptions of sexual intercourse disgusting. Thus, my reviewing of stories within that genre would must likely be biased by my personal taste, even if I try to be candid. The best is to partner with writers working on your same genre. You may think it might bias their reviewing the other way around, finding whatever you write--or vomit--awesome. While it might be true, it's also true they are better qualified to judge your work only because they are into the genre. Moreover, once published, the likelihood is that your book will be purchased by readers fond of your genre, not the other way around, meaning that it is with genre-fan eyes that your work has to be reviewed.

A personal example: once, another writer from TNBW started reading my YA story "Where Heaven and Hell Meet". She started to point out at what she considered a large number of plot flaws that are givens in YA literature, like the absence of adult involvement, teen angst, wrong decisions, etc. After reading four chapters, she told me she was not "liking the story at all" because she actually considered young adult stories, in general, "simple-minded and lacking a true message." Of course, she stopped reviewing it. Had I despaired because of her harsh reviews, I would have dropped the story and possibly my writing as a whole. I realised she was not the right reviewer if she hated young adult literature and considered her comments with that grain of salt. I took few of her observations--there some worth being considered--and rejected the rest of them.

Hope the above is useful.

Kiss,

Gacela

Re: Woes of a newbie

Beautiful and uplifting words, all of you.
I commend your decision to stick with it, Dave, going so far as to rework your life around your passion. That is precisely the sort of dedication that pays off. I hope yours comes in, soon.
I will follow your advice, though I didn't necessarily need it. I do all this for, well... me. I enjoy it.
In the same way I won't stop listening to music running the gamut from Ayreon to Bowie, Blood Ceremony to Prince, because you don't like it, I won't stop writing what I like to.
Bravo us!!!

big_smile

Re: Woes of a newbie

Mariana Reuter wrote:

All kind of artists--writer, painters, musicians, etc.--are potential targets of critique. Remember: beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Thus, your work may both appeal and repeal people. Not only on TNBW, but also once it's published. Just look at the Amazon reviews. There are always chaps who think your story sucks just because, as well as chaps who find it cool without any reason for.

Granting that all critiques in TNBW are candid, not all reviewers are professional enough. Some think that, by being blunt, they are doing the writer a favour, for then the writer will easily realise her flaws. Others are so polite and subtle one ends up wondering what was exactly what the reviewer meant. Within those boundaries, each writer must decide what is valuable and what is not.

I wouldn't be concerned because of a one-time reviewer who randomly picks one of my chapters and pours vitriol over my story. Without context, even the best King's English may be mercilessly nit-picked, and a lose Romeo and Juliet scene considered an anecdote about two stupidly eager teenagers.  However, I'd be concerned if several of my reviewers, who have been following my story and are well aware of the plot, point all at the same weakness. It would be amateurish to turn a blind eye towards such shared observations based on the conceited belief that "only my opinion counts".

TNBW is not free of opportunistic point-gatherers who review at random, seldom providing meaningful advice. Either it is merciless or excessively flattering. That kind of review is easy to spot and discard.

Other problem that may happen is that your work may be reviewed by people who, in an effort to help you, are reviewing a genre they don't enjoy. For example, I'm not fond of Erotica. I found explicit descriptions of sexual intercourse disgusting. Thus, my reviewing of stories within that genre would must likely be biased by my personal taste, even if I try to be candid. The best is to partner with writers working on your same genre. You may think it might bias their reviewing the other way around, finding whatever you write--or vomit--awesome. While it might be true, it's also true they are better qualified to judge your work only because they are into the genre. Moreover, once published, the likelihood is that your book will be purchased by readers fond of your genre, not the other way around, meaning that it is with genre-fan eyes that your work has to be reviewed.

A personal example: once, another writer from TNBW started reading my YA story "Where Heaven and Hell Meet". She started to point out at what she considered a large number of plot flaws that are givens in YA literature, like the absence of adult involvement, teen angst, wrong decisions, etc. After reading four chapters, she told me she was not "liking the story at all" because she actually considered young adult stories, in general, "simple-minded and lacking a true message." Of course, she stopped reviewing it. Had I despaired because of her harsh reviews, I would have dropped the story and possibly my writing as a whole. I realised she was not the right reviewer if she hated young adult literature and considered her comments with that grain of salt. I took few of her observations--there some worth being considered--and rejected the rest of them.

Hope the above is useful.

Kiss,

Gacela

Thanks Gacela, hopefully our words can help a few newbies who've not grown a thicker skin yet.  Lol about the reviewer reviewing your YA while hating YA. I've had that, I truly despair with their logic.  Having said that, I've reviewed romance and teen fiction, way off the beaten track for me, and still assisted the writer in some way by helping with continuity and over-all plot, as well with grammar.

Thanks again. :-)

Re: Woes of a newbie

Justin Robben wrote:

Beautiful and uplifting words, all of you.
I commend your decision to stick with it, Dave, going so far as to rework your life around your passion. That is precisely the sort of dedication that pays off. I hope yours comes in, soon.
I will follow your advice, though I didn't necessarily need it. I do all this for, well... me. I enjoy it.
In the same way I won't stop listening to music running the gamut from Ayreon to Bowie, Blood Ceremony to Prince, because you don't like it, I won't stop writing what I like to.
Bravo us!!!

big_smile

Thanks Justin, I can see by your picture you're a strong willed character and not easily dissuaded by the odd bad review. And like you said, for me it's truly about the writing, the creation, it's an amazing feeling watching characters come alive in your work.

Cheers Dave