1 (edited by Norm d'Plume 2017-07-11 04:48:08)

Topic: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

Sol, I know I asked about this once before, but was wondering if you'd consider it again. I have over 900 points and would love to donate some to my better reviewers as a thank you for the extra effort they put in compared to those who just drop 5 inline comments. It seems like this would be a feature you could add that wouldn't affect those who don't want to use it, so it shouldn't get in other people's way (e.g., an optional numeric field next to the Save Reply button). However, I suspect others are in a similar position as me and might use it, too.

Thoughts?

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

Hey, Sol!

We were able to buy credits with the previous site. Has that been done did away with?

Also, regarding Norm's comment above, there might be another way to reward authors who attract reviews through their brilliant writing. What if, for every review, they get a percentage of their credits back? This is regarding the credits it takes to publish. Say, each review garners the author a refund 10%. Thus, ten reviews and the author recoups the cost of posting. I hardly ever see ten reviews on my own stuff, but even a little back in my account would help tremendously (for me, anyway; I can hardly keep a credit in my account, but as a result some of my posts earn a reviewer over 5 credits!). And this way the author earns the credits, so it's all on him or her. Unless the author has a large following, this would still require reviews to get credits to post, preserving the site's original idea. And of course you can always limit the amount of credits back to the cost of publishing.

Just a thought.

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

Three months ago, I had over 1000 points. Now that I've begun two novels,they have dropped to just over 800. Still, that's a lot of points and I would love to be able to donate points to loyal readers. I also second the suggestion by Seabrass. Even a 5% refund of posting costs would be welcome.

Bill

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

Time ago, I also suggested that points can be transferred from one author to another, which is exactly what is proposed lines above by "donating" points to one's best reviews. The groups in our competitor site, Scribophile, use to organise contests where points are the prize. You pay your entrance fee with points (which are used for the prize). I like the idea of contests within groups just for the fun of it, aside from the contests Sol organises with cash prizes. I like the idea of giving points as prize because, while some authors have a good deal of them, others are short, mainly if one is publishing new chapters or more than one story at a time.

But... alas! Points cannot be transferred.

Kiss,

Gacela

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

I could see how such a system has the potential for abuse. Point trading becomes a possibility. It also might lead to the formation of a "good ol' boys club" sort of network, leading to the exclusion of certain members... sorry but I think it's best how it is now.

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

I really see no benefit to donating points within the current system, but should you wish to give them away it's a pretty simple procedure without changing the format of tnbw. Simply post stories with the maximum word and credit levels and tell those you wish to reward to simply paste in a review requiring no effort and grab the points. You don't even have to use real stories, just post a bunch of gibberish or copy and paste something to create the credit potential. Oh, but then anybody could grab the points that way you say; true, but they can grab points that way regardless of any invitation if that is their inclination.

But I do have a question as to why one would want to encourage folks to accept donated points and thereby deprive them of the secondary benefit of reviewing to gain points to publish their own works. Isn't that the whole purpose of the system? You improve your writing by reviewing and your writing improves hopefully by being reviewed. The two work hand in hand. As it is, you must review about four works of equal length to the one you publish to gain the points to publish; a sensible ratio it seems to create reviews for a broad spectrum and still make it quite easy to gain the points to publish.

It is obviously quite easy to gain points to publish and create an excess or else all these points wouldn't be available to donate or sell as the case might be. Yes, it does take time to do the reviews, but not nearly as much time as it takes to create the story to publish and it seems logical that giving away free points would diminish the total pool of reviewers for that greater effort. I mean why review if you get the points for free even if for past efforts. Giving away points lessens the value of the reviewer as well as the incentive of the reviewer in my opinion. The more appropriate response to reward a good reviewer would be to give them more reviews than you receive since that is the ultimate goal of authors on this site, to get reviews to improve their work.

Well, that's my free points. And yes, I have more than I'll probably ever use also, but wouldn't want to deprive others of the education and relationships from whence they came. Take care. Vern

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

I tend to agree with Vern.  I, too, have more points than I will ever use, but each one of those points represents a friendship, a comment, a helpful hint, or a suggestion.  I joined this site in 2008, coming in thinking I knew everything!  What a joke!  I knew nothing compared to some of the more seasoned writers on here.  Those writers guided me, taught me, put up with me, and helped me along the way.  In return, I read their posts, how they worded things, how they plotted their stories.  Well, you get what I mean.

There are so many good stories on here from writers who are currently not posting anything.  They've left their stories for us to learn from.  I personally think giving away points takes away from the learning process.  That's my opinion, for what it's worth.

Have a peaceful day, everybody!
MJ

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

I agree that merely donating points can become problematic. That's why I suggested the alternative. That way it's not dependent on an exchange- it's just rewarding an author when things are done the normal way here. For authors like me, some of my posts require over twenty credits. I can hardly keep credits in my account. The reward for reviewing some of my posts are substantial sometimes. I rarely see other postings with such substantial credit rewards for the time and effort involved in a review (and people who get my reviews know I do spend time on them). I just think writing material that attracts a good core of reviewers should reward the author in some small way. Particular authors like me who can't hardly keep a credit in my bank. (How the hell do so many of you accumulate hundreds of credits? How many reviews do you do an hour?)

Perhaps for novel publishings, if a reviewer reviews each submission, then maybe there can be an exchange perhaps. A reward for 'sticking through it all'. I'd be happy to go for something like that. Of course, I ain't got doodly in my credit bank, so rewards from me might be slow in being doled out.

Also, anyone know of a way to run a search on posts using the credit reward? If not, then, Sol, is there a way to make the credit reward for a review visible in the list of material for review? That way those of us pressed for time can find credit-rich posts? It still takes time and attention to review those, of course, but sometimes I'm just 1.5 credits from publishing and need just one more review to get that. Be nice to see at a glance possible candidates, rather than having to click on the item to check. I'd rather do one 1.5 credit review, than two .8 reviews, when I'm pressed for time.

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

Seabrass - You could maybe try posting shorter chapters. smile You'll get more reviewers, methinks.  I'm retired, so I have the time to read a long chapter - especially if it's well-written. But others might be intimidated by, or have an attention level that can't survive, a lengthy review. I know from experience that your reviews are both  thoughtful and eagle-eyed. I try to do the same with my reviews. It's just math. Do more reviews, get more points. I've got over 4000 points that never seem to go down. Each chapter I post costs me an average of 6-8 points, and every chapter I review gains me 1.2 - 3 (yours!) points. So you have to review more than you post. I like the system Sol has set up, though maybe the points for reviewing versus the points to post could be tweaked to make it a tad easier to post.

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

Post shorter chapters? What are you, mad? Nay, I say! Nay!

Actually, if I write the next story I have in mind, the chapters will definitely be shorter. Just the nature of the beast, I think. Reviewers who have read them long chapters have said they were long, but they couldn't really find places to cut. Just have to say what I needs to say.

Anyway, taking a break for a bit. Will still do reviews (and maybe build up a pile o' creds) but won't be posting for a while. And I'll be traveling soon, so I may not be on the site for a few days, either.

And... four thousand? WTF! You should post a trilogy and see if you can without doing a single review to fund it.

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

jack the knife wrote:

Seabrass - You could maybe try posting shorter chapters. smile You'll get more reviewers, methinks.  I'm retired, so I have the time to read a long chapter - especially if it's well-written. But others might be intimidated by, or have an attention level that can't survive, a lengthy review. I know from experience that your reviews are both  thoughtful and eagle-eyed. I try to do the same with my reviews. It's just math. Do more reviews, get more points. I've got over 4000 points that never seem to go down. Each chapter I post costs me an average of 6-8 points, and every chapter I review gains me 1.2 - 3 (yours!) points. So you have to review more than you post. I like the system Sol has set up, though maybe the points for reviewing versus the points to post could be tweaked to make it a tad easier to post.

Wow Jack...I thought I was doing good with 2000! Tip of the reviewer hat to you. smile

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

I've been here since 2008, Dags. That helps! smile

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

2000 points??? 3000 points??? Wow! Do you guys only review and never publish?

I'm like Seabrass. I'm always short on points.

Kiss,

Gacela

14

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

I've got 1300.  My publishing has slowed as I learn of more skills that I need to learn, and I'm way behind on reviews, too.  But at some point I'm going to need those points, x3.

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

While I learn a lot from reviewing, I feel "underpaid" in terms of points for the amount of time I devote to each piece. And I'm always short of points.
I like the idea of being able to personally reward someone (and be rewarded) for putting out the effort to give a thoughtful and thorough review. That person may be encouraged to give your work another go. Giving extra points would be a personalized way of showing appreciation.

16 (edited by jack the knife 2017-07-13 11:58:44)

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

Mariana Reuter wrote:

2000 points??? 3000 points??? Wow! Do you guys only review and never publish?

I'm like Seabrass. I'm always short on points.

Kiss,

Gacela

I've posted 8 novels on TNBW and am working on my ninth, so it's not for the lack of posting I've accumulated the points.  smile

17 (edited by j p lundstrom 2017-07-13 17:29:17)

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

Come on, kids! We've been through this before.

Who's going to review the reviews to find out which are the "best?" Or does everyone just give points to the authors of the reviews we like best? You know, the ones that pat us on the back and stroke our egos. Are you still living in La-La Land that you believe we can be objective about our reviews? Or are we going to find an impartial third party to choose the "best" reviewers?

The whole concept of tnbw is that we take the good, the bad, and the ugly and work on improving ourselves, not mess around with who wrote the best review. Sheesh!

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

K L van Kriedt wrote:

While I learn a lot from reviewing, I feel "underpaid" in terms of points for the amount of time I devote to each piece. And I'm always short of points.
I like the idea of being able to personally reward someone (and be rewarded) for putting out the effort to give a thoughtful and thorough review. That person may be encouraged to give your work another go. Giving extra points would be a personalized way of showing appreciation.

What helped me collect points when I first joined TNBW was reading whole novels. If you don't mind me suggesting this, find a novel you like on here, there are lots to choose from, and read and review the whole thing.
It also helps to have a reviewing relationship with people, they review you, you review them.
Hope this helps. smile

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

In my own experience, I gave a point to someone who reviewed one of my pieces on Scribophile. They took the time to give me insight into my own writing. The piece really opened up for me. I found new depth. It had nothing to do with "stroking my ego." It had to do with quality communication.

No one else was involved. Just myself and the other writer. I also gave them a review in return as well, but the insight was a stunning gift which I felt deserved more, and I was pleased I was able to give them a point to express my appreciation.

Re: Rewarding extra points to the best reviewers?

Thank you, KLvK. That was my original idea. A simple reward for people who go out of their way to give an exceptional review. No one else would be involved. Just me and the reviewer.