Book Recommendation (Page 1 of 3)

Looking to Hollywood hack writers for advice is looking to an industry that produces by far more failures than successes. Edge of Tomorrow (2014) lost $78 million and not because of bad acting or direction or lack of action/special effects or even the story's premise - it was the script, perfect to the formula in every respect.

Here's some other formulaic  don'ts

Stories written in present tense (especially third person present tense)
Stories with graphic dead baby scenes
Stories about writers
Stories about struggling marriages
Stories set in bars
Stories with more backstory than plot
Stories with undeveloped characters
Stories that are overly reflective

All of which  Edge of Tomorrow didn't do.

There is information, misinformation, facts and the other stuff....

Edge of Tomorrow (2014) Suffered a disappointing box-office release weekend in the USA but recovered Internationally.

I  have a small vested interest in this particular movie because it was filmed and produced in London and an ex-forces friend of mine works for the armoury company that supplied (sourced or created) the weaponry and coached the actors in the use of the hardware.

Anyway... what is the source for the £78,000,000 loss that you cite?

Because according to 'other' reporting media the movie has made over £200,000,000 profit and counting. 

Cost:
Production Budget:         $178,000,000

Earned (so far):
Worldwide Box Office:         $364,406,256
Total Domestic Video Sales:     $25,764,401

Profit $213 million so far, and rising with TV Screening and DVD sales...

Source: The Numbers

http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Edge-o … ab=summary

There are hard ways to write a book and easy ways. In my humble opinion, the hard way is to go in without any kind of guide and simply write what you think is good literature and a good story. Some writers will luck into success, but the vast majority will fail. It's like building a house without a blueprint or even an idea of what makes a desirable house. Sure, one in a million will get lucky, but the vast majority wind up with a wreck.

Most good stories have common elements and learning what these are allows a writer to better sculpt their writing and also go outside the lines when it is necessary. We all start to learn about the formula in grade school - beginning, middle, and end. Personally, I'd rather be told how to create a compelling story than have to learn for myself. This is all my opinion, of course, and people can write however they want. The ultimate arbiters are the readers.

True, to an extent.

Do you feel that a good or even a great writer, one who succeeds commercially -- i.e. a writer with a publishing contract and those ultimate arbiters, the readers, purchasing the novel in their droves from bookstores -- could be any individual who takes "the easy way" and is taught, guided or formulated into that position? The pygmalion effect theory?

Education and the application of 'the formula' are the only things standing between last week's bored housewife and next year's J. K. Rowling?

Are great writers, like musicians, artists and artistes, born, or can anyone be 'easy-way'd' into a great writer by learning the rules and regs?

Why are so few Grammar Dons published?

Matt Bird's emphasis is on the reader--how to make your story connect with and reward the reader.  That's what makes it different from all the other books I've seen on the subject (some of which were very helpful).

The standard today is the same as in 1939: it if does well in the first-run U.S. theaters, it is a success, if not, not.  It doesn't matter how many Chinese see the movie on their bootleg versions.

I picked this particular movie because the script did stink. Awful, but tight to the success formula.

In order to support or promote your opinion, you stated that the movie "lost $78 million" when actually the movie has made a profit of $213 million thus far. 

BTW. The movie owners don't get paid for for Chinese bootleg versions, that's the point of a bootleg and why they are called bootleg versions.

A clear profit of $213 million is less than the makers forecast, but certainly not a disaster. There are many movies that make a loss or barely recoup their production costs. Edge of Tomorrow is not one of them. It got panned mainly because of a current fashion for anti Tom Cruise feelings within the media press and the public.

Cinema goers on the first run don't know the script stinks, they haven't seen the movie or heard the script played out yet. The industry analyst consensus upon the low first run figures in the USA has been put down to the title, 'Edge of Tomorrow' not being meaningful or evocative to the US moive consumers. Attendance picked up when they gave it the additional tag-line; 'Live, Die, Repeat.'

There is so much misinformation, fabricated news and made up shit bandied about nowadays, by governments, corporations, media organisations and individuals that it makes me both angry and sad. Somebody like you simply made up VW's fuel emission and fuel economy figures and felt justified in that act because the lies supported a 'fact' that they wanted the public to believe. A point they wanted to make. It has become routine behaviour. You write fiction, I know that; but do you ever stop or draw a line?

Again. The standard is what the movie made in its first run on U.S. screens. It cost $178M and made through the summer of 2014 $100M. What it did make a year later or might make by the end of the year 3074 on Mars is irrelevant. It was an expensive movie to make because of bloated and unnecessary (to the plot) action scenes and the star-actors cost. It had little word-of-mouth power to draw people in after the first weekend because so many judged it as "meh."

My original point was that what a hack Hollywood (movie and TV) writer advises to write TO MAKE MONEY is pointless to a novelist at least for the reasons that he can write a script, and it usually creation by committee (and Edge of Tomorrow shows that abundantly) and so many other factors and calculations are at play that -- sure, the "writer" made money from his formula writing job -- but not all measures of success are the same inasmuch the pet rock of the '70's made money for its creative genius, for example, and so did the iPhone. Gone with the Wind as a movie was a success in the same way Gone with the Wind the novel was, but The Wizard of Oz as a movie was a success in a much different way than as a novel. Atlas Shrugged as a novel is certainly an enduring success (sales 2009-present nearly match sales with its release in 1957) but the attempt as a film (in three parts) was a flop. The novel written as a novel has had a different standard for success than attempts to script it for movie or TV screen.

TOPIC  DRIFT!

I read that, found it very helpful to structure my thinking.

How does that work?

Again. The movie cost $178 million to produce and it earned $392 million within the first 24 months of its release. Argue that the film is/was an artistic failure all you want but the indisputable fact is that the movie banked a shed load of profit. The reality is that it never lost the $78 million that you say it did and the evidence is within the $213 million profit sloshing around inside of the investors and owners pockets.

By the ‘Standard’ method of determining ultimate success or failure that you cite, i.e. sampling the week one results rather than the actual outcome; the Germans won WW2 and thus rule and dominate Europe whilst the Japanese defeated America and dominate the USA and Asia Pacific. Hilary Clinton has just won the US Presidential election. There is no such country as South Korea. Aeronautics and combustion engines are a flop and the Confederate States won the American Civil War; whilst the sum of my monthly salary only ever equates to a single week’s pay.

Hold on a minute… Wow! The Germans actually do rule and dominate Europe, the Japanese have defeated America economically and true, they dominate the USA and Asia Pacific. Hillary Clinton did win the election (within the minds of the anti-democratic) and in any case the chance that Obama will let her back into the White House on his eviction day so she can once again abuse the staff then steal the furniture and fixtures and vandalise the rest, is a possibility and that should make everybody feel better, as it is a victory of sorts; and my monthly pay cheque certainly feels like a week’s worth…   

You are totally correct Charles; a movie that in reality is very successful, extremely profitable and highly acclaimed by critics and its audiences; and all of that a matter of record (fact), is a total flop/loss within your own virtual world, if you want it to be.

Carry on regardless.

As a new writer myself, I've never found formulas or bullet-point lists to be helpful. General advice? Yes. Specific comments on my work? Yes. Lists/formulas/rules? Not so much. They might work for other writers, but I think my own writing method is far too chaotic to implement a formula.

The most useful tools that I've found for improving my work are reviews on tNBW and general writing advice by my favorite authors. (Ex. http://www.brentweeks.com/extras/writing-advice/ )

That book looks very interesting though, njc. I might have to grab one.