126 (edited by njc 2016-10-16 13:36:38)

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Full context here Memphis?  Mr. Trump was expressing the effect of wealth and power as a sexual attractant.  He was marveling at the behavior that these women accepted.  Were the acts wrong?  Yes.  Were they encouraged?  He thought so.  Was he correct in that thinking?  Quite possibly, since those women chose to be in the presence of money and power.

Note that the 'power' was merely the power of money.  It was not the power to jail anybody, or to start an IRS investigation, or an FBI investigation.  It was not the power to trigger events overseas.

Trump's strengths in business include the ability to recognize opportunities.  It exposes him to temptation.  Can you say you would not explore the opportunities that one of those temptations offer?

127 (edited by Dill Carver 2016-10-16 13:35:40)

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

You took the time and effort to omit everything to obscure understanding. That is what makes you a bad person.

The quotes I used are intact (as written). I may have been selective upon which quotes I included within any particular reply, but that's only as you have also done within your replies throughout this entire thread.

I'm not sure upon the mis-quote to use here; the one about the goose and the gander or 'The lady he doth protest too much, methinks"

Anyway, I've never claimed that I'm not a bad person. I've certainly never claimed that I'm a good one. You identified me as a twat early on in the proceedings. I don't contest your appraisal of me. You label me a twat, you get a twat.

The sad thing is that from within your xenophobic, sexist, racist diatribe, your arrogance blinds you from your own   
supercilious behaviour and self-righteous attitude. That is what makes you a bad person.

128

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Charles wrote:

You've been chasing your own tail (no 'bitch' reference, of course) endlessly over this twattle. That signifies a bigoted ideologue.

It's not actually an insult to call a modern woman a bitch. It means you're intimidated by a woman's intelligence and must resort to playground name-calling to maintain your tenuous hold on your position. You might not realize that having been a little... out of touch in the last forty years.

I think for men the label "bitch" means you are a cowardly, slobbering idiot. I'm not calling you one, of course. I'm just saying you're projecting.

129

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

Isn't unsolicited correcting punctuation and grammar being mean?

Is it? IS IT?

lol

What a complete moron!!!

130 (edited by Dill Carver 2016-10-16 16:06:24)

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

corra wrote:

It's not actually an insult to call a modern woman a bitch.

Really?

I tried this with my wife and received a slap.

Okay, so she's not so much the modern woman nowadays.

I tried it with my daughter and received a slap.


So, tell me; are they are both not up to date, or are they just plain unreasonable?  smile wink

131

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

njc wrote:

Full context here Memphis?  Mr. Trump was expressing the effect of wealth and power as a sexual attractant.  He was marveling at the behavior that these women accepted.  Were the acts wrong?  Yes.  Were they encouraged?  He thought so.  Was he correct in that thinking?  Quite possibly, since those women chose to be in the presence of money and power.

Note that the 'power' was merely the power of money.  It was not the power to jail anybody, or to start an IRS investigation, or an FBI investigation.  It was not the power to trigger events overseas.

Trump's strengths in business include the ability to recognize opportunities.  It exposes him to temptation.  Can you say you would not explore the opportunities that one of those temptations offer?

"OPPORTUNITIES?"? Really, njc?

Female bodies are NOT opportunities. That opportunity does not exist. I don't care what she's wearing, how she smiles at you, or how quickly your moron paycheck makes you think your penis grows. Keep your hands to yourself unless she says VERY PLAINLY that you may proceed. It's no more difficult to do that than it is to NOT steal the diamond bracelet in the display case because the jeweler turned her back and you were therefore TEMPTED.

A murderer, a child molester, or a thief couldn't possibly get away with such a defense. Yet it remains a steadfast excuse for the theft of the female body, in 2016.

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Dill Carver wrote:
corra wrote:

It's not actually an insult to call a modern woman a bitch.

Really?

I tried this with my wife and received a slap.

Okay, so she's not so much the modern woman nowadays.

I tried it with my daughter and received a slap.


So, tell me; are they are both not up to date, or are they just plain unreasonable?  smile wink

They were just confirming your keen observation skills. I'd consider myself complimented. smile

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Memphis Trace wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:
njc wrote:

I still feel that 'tw*t' is obscene.  I note that 'twattle' has also been spelled 'twaddle'.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/twat

2. A person regarded as stupid or obnoxious.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/twattle

Trivial or foolish speech.

When I first came across the word 'twat' in England I did not actually know some Americans' use of the word and associated it then with 'twattle.' I still like the association because metaphorically I think the words are associated with women, and in England both words are used by and against men in exactly the same way when the coach or army sergeant calls his men "pussies" when they underperform. This line of association brings to mind the  pc climate in which now men are not allowed to speak this way to other men even in private [viz. Donald Trump/Billy Bush].

Donald Trump did not call women "pussies." And, obviously, he was allowed to speak this way in private about assaulting women by grabbing women by one of the few parts of a woman's body that he seems to be interested in.

A woman of a self-identified undecided's Fox focus group stood up and actually said that any man who would say those things even in private is wrong. That is what I mean. A kind of thought-control policing. This is a minority opinion, but one held within all sectors of information transmission media: education, news & entertainment, government. That is where Liberalism has grown from its English-Enlightenment roots and starts with Locke and his precept that government's function is to reach for virtue. The distinction in natural-rights theory from Hobbes to Locke was that Hobbes was concerned about behavior in Civil Society and Locke was concerned about the perfection of Civil Society.

Memphis Trace wrote:

Since that time he has claimed he has never done the things he bragged about in his "locker room" talk; since that time several women have stepped forward to say that he has done just that.

At which point, by action, the braggadocio, then and only then, becomes relevant.  But through the last 40 years of Trump's life, no such accusation ever came forward until three weeks before a Presidential election (and uncorroborated) - unlike for Bill Clinton, and, by the way, for Bill Cosby where all along through decades there had been some accusations of indecent conduct.

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

corra wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:

Isn't unsolicited correcting punctuation and grammar being mean?

Is it? IS IT?

For a topic "Punctuation" somehow one would think that comments on punctuation is not only appropriate but expected, but Carver's corrections was used to cover the fact that he had nothing relevant to say other than I typed "i' instead of "f"  and someone else typed "your" instead of "you're."  That is rudeness replacing relevant feedback.

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Dill Carver wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:

You took the time and effort to omit everything to obscure understanding. That is what makes you a bad person.

The quotes I used are intact (as written). I may have been selective upon which quotes I included within any particular reply, but that's only as you have also done within your replies throughout this entire thread.

You've transitioned from mischievous internet trolling to pathologic internet trolling when you deny facts already demonstrated. You deleted the line to which I responded and alleged that I must have been responding to something else.  And, of course, you omitted it here again.

Dill Carver wrote:

Charles mentions Political Correctness, in fact he seems quite obsessed with the concept,

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

Yeah, weird how I might be 'obsessed' with the subject.

re:

Dill Carver wrote:

The humanitarian liberals are not very pleased with this and their solution is ban words and persecute anyone who mentions the fact by branding them a fascist and a racist.

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

For a topic "Punctuation" somehow one would think that comments on punctuation is not only appropriate but expected, but Carver's corrections was used to cover the fact that he had nothing relevant to say other than I typed "i' instead of "f"  and someone else typed "your" instead of "you're."  That is rudeness replacing relevant feedback.

Normally I wouldn't worry about spelling, punctuation or inappropriate word choice within a forum post. However, in this case I responded with comments upon people's own grammar within posts they'd made to me, purely because they were questioning, criticising or correcting my own grammar within said post with worse grammar irregularities themselves.

How is that rude? If you seek to criticise one's grammar, at least be informed and use correct grammar when you do so otherwise your point is mute and as worthy of criticism as the criticism you are making. It is also worthy of a retort given the context.

You are scraping the barrel, looking desperately for something to be offended by and enraged about. Baiting. Whinging whining and crying foul. Playing the victim. Poor little you, nasty old me.

It is pathetic.  It really is.

137 (edited by Dill Carver 2016-10-16 17:34:43)

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

Yeah, weird how I might be 'obsessed' with the subject.

Charles, you are funny. A real wit.

And I know the role that you crave is to play supercilious ring-master to a circus full of sycophantic minions.

But it isn't going to happen mate. Not here.

However, please understand that I am not contesting or challenging you for the alpha-narcissist role upon this site.

Calm down. You are safe. The title is yours and rightly so. There is no threat.

138

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

corra wrote:

Female bodies are NOT opportunities. That opportunity does not exist. I don't care what she's wearing, how she smiles at you, or how quickly your moron paycheck makes you think your penis grows. Keep your hands to yourself unless she says VERY PLAINLY that you may proceed. It's no more difficult to do that than it is to NOT steal the diamond bracelet in the display case because the jeweler turned her back and you were therefore TEMPTED.

That would certainly be the end of the Romance genre!  It would also be the end of most human courtship, since most signalling is non-verbal, and much of it is begun by the woman, with glances, closeness, and touches.  I don't think even the Puritans attempted to enforce 'yes means yes'--though, according to David Hackett in Albion's Seed, it was the Quakers who were really strait-laced.  On the other hand, those societies had clear limits, based on formal courtship and marriage--unambiguous gates that we have abandoned.

Those rules worked, being suited to both human nature and to the society they had.  What rules are proven to work in the society we've become in the last two generations?  We're in the midst of a massive experiment with our society, with the routes of retreat apparently cut off.  How many people will you condemn for trying to find their way in the absence of proven and universally accepted rules?

139 (edited by Memphis Trace 2016-10-16 19:32:34)

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
Memphis Trace wrote:

Donald Trump did not call women "pussies." And, obviously, he was allowed to speak this way in private about assaulting women by grabbing women by one of the few parts of a woman's body that he seems to be interested in.

A woman of a self-identified undecided's Fox focus group stood up and actually said that any man who would say those things even in private is wrong. That is what I mean. A kind of thought-control policing.

Losing the votes of women who think he is wrong is the price of sexual assault. Notice how quickly he backtracked. He now says it is only words. 

Memphis Trace wrote:

Since that time he has claimed he has never done the things he bragged about in his "locker room" talk; since that time several women have stepped forward to say that he has done just that.

The floodgates are now open.

At which point, by action, the braggadocio, then and only then, becomes relevant.  But through the last 40 years of Trump's life, no such accusation ever came forward until three weeks before a Presidential election (and uncorroborated) - unlike for Bill Clinton, and, by the way, for Bill Cosby where all along through decades there had been some accusations of indecent conduct.

Now we will see how well he holds up under the ordeal. It is the price one pays for locker room talk.

140

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Memphis Trace wrote:

Now we will see how well he holds up under the ordeal. It is the price one pays for locker room talk.

Two recent links off instapundit:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/p … lly-229851
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2016/10/do … pport.html

The first focuses on the conundrum, the second on an explanation.  You'll probably disagree ... but how many people agree with the arguments given?

141

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Charles F Bell wrote:

At which point, by action, the braggadocio, then and only then, becomes relevant.  But through the last 40 years of Trump's life, no such accusation ever came forward until three weeks before a Presidential election (and uncorroborated) - unlike for Bill Clinton, and, by the way, for Bill Cosby where all along through decades there had been some accusations of indecent conduct.

The assertion that nothing has shown up over the past 40 years until the current round being decried as politically motivated is simply incorrect as any reasonably competent research would show. But even if that were not the case, the fact remains that most if not all the current allegations were told to others at the time and thus not made up now simply to harm Trump's candidacy for president. Furthermore, the only proven allegations against Bill Clinton were with consenting partners, a big difference from what Trump admits to on tape. There is no "locker room" defense as Trump was no where near a locker room and in fact was in a business setting. Additionally, this so-called normal locker room banter is unheard of in locker rooms. Not a single person has come forward to authenticate such locker room banter admitting sexual assault, though several prominent athletes have come forward to challenge it. There is no defense for Trump or those who support him on this count. Take care. Vern

142

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Can an employee in the Oval Office be considered a freely consenting partner?  What about Gennifer Flowers?

143 (edited by corra 2016-10-17 00:01:19)

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

njc wrote:

That would certainly be the end of the Romance genre!  It would also be the end of most human courtship, since most signalling is non-verbal, and much of it is begun by the woman, with glances, closeness, and touches...

There's a vast difference between the often bewildering map of consensual romance, and this. That you would conflate the allegations against Trump with romance is highly disturbing. You referenced his power (money) as a viable excuse for such allegations? (Have you also rationalized this?)

(Actually, I had a whole long post written out in response to your remarks above, but I've just deleted it. Why am I even engaging with you on this topic? Anyone with honor knows exactly what I meant.)

Keep fighting the good fight, njc. Peace in the form of "not clanging the bell lest it gong", and the right to freely grope. Good stuff.

144

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

njc wrote:

Can an employee in the Oval Office be considered a freely consenting partner?  What about Gennifer Flowers?

What is your point? Are you saying no one can have free consent in the Oval Office? If you walked into the Oval Office, are you saying Bill or any other president could stick it to you without your consent? What about Gennifer Flowers? Are you offering a long term affair as proof that she had no consent? You're going to need more than that argument. Take care. Vern

145

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

US law recognizes that an employer is in a position of power over the employee, and creates a much higher hurdle to demonstrate that the consent was free.  Surely that hurdle must be even higher when the employer occupies an executive office of government.

Corra, even dance clubs would cease to function under strict verbal affirmative consent.

146 (edited by vern 2016-10-17 00:39:37)

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

njc wrote:

US law recognizes that an employer is in a position of power over the employee, and creates a much higher hurdle to demonstrate that the consent was free.  Surely that hurdle must be even higher when the employer occupies an executive office of government.

Higher standards doesn't mean "no" standards or automatic guilt as you implied in your previous statement. And despite decades of accusations and research with all the resources available from the Republican witch hunters, no evidence has come forth to indicate Bill forced himself on women as Trump freely and gleefully admits on tape. Take care. Vern

Edited to add omitted automatic guilt

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

A woman of a self-identified undecided's Fox focus group stood up and actually said that any man who would say those things even in private is wrong. That is what I mean. A kind of thought-control policing.

Memphis Trace wrote:

Losing the votes of women who think he is wrong is the price of sexual assault. Notice how quickly he backtracked. He now says it is only words.

Mainly because there is no reason to believe these allegations are true, and losing the votes of such women is irrelevant.

Memphis Trace wrote:

Now we will see how well he holds up under the ordeal. It is the price one pays for locker room talk.

Actually, he has done what he can do and that's all. Any accuser is immunized from libel laws because of his candidacy.  There is no sense to believe any of the allegations from those who cannot suffer consequences for lying. Through the last 40 years of Trump's life, no such accusation ever came forward until three weeks before a Presidential election against one who cannot sue for slander.

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

vern wrote:
Charles F Bell wrote:

At which point, by action, the braggadocio, then and only then, becomes relevant.  But through the last 40 years of Trump's life, no such accusation ever came forward until three weeks before a Presidential election (and uncorroborated) - unlike for Bill Clinton, and, by the way, for Bill Cosby where all along through decades there had been some accusations of indecent conduct.

The assertion that nothing has shown up over the past 40 years until the current round being decried as politically motivated is simply incorrect as any reasonably competent research would show.

There is no research that anyone has competently accused Tump of sexual misconduct prior to this time when anyone can accuse him while shielded from suit for slander because of his candidacy..

vern wrote:

There is no defense for Trump or those who support him on this count. Take care. Vern

The defense is that he has not done anything wrong.

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

Yeah, weird how I might be 'obsessed' with the subject.

Dill Carver wrote:

Charles, you are funny. A real wit.

Charles mentions Political Correctness, in fact he seems quite obsessed with the concept,

The humanitarian liberals are not very pleased with this and their solution is ban words and persecute anyone who mentions the fact by branding them a fascist and a racist.

Re: Snuck vs Sneaked

Dill Carver wrote:
Charles_F_Bell wrote:

For a topic "Punctuation" somehow one would think that comments on punctuation is not only appropriate but expected, but Carver's corrections was used to cover the fact that he had nothing relevant to say other than I typed "i' instead of "f"  and someone else typed "your" instead of "you're."  That is rudeness replacing relevant feedback.

Normally I wouldn't worry about spelling, punctuation or inappropriate word choice within a forum post. However, in this case I responded with comments upon people's own grammar within posts they'd made to me, purely because they were questioning, criticising or correcting my own grammar within said post with worse grammar irregularities themselves.

You lie.  On the actual subject, anyone choosing sneaked like you is correct. It's just a question of choosing a valid alternative in "snuck" for which you had the unsupportable, bigoted 'only hillbillies choose "snuck".' Your substitute argument to me was that I spelled "of" as "oi."