Topic: Point system dying?

Is the point system dying? Only one out of twenty new members post work to a group that is part of the point system.

Re: Point system dying?

The problem is that, without the points system, there may be little motivation to read other people's work. I mean, the point system forces you to earn the points by reviewing other people's work before you're able to publish yours. Without the points, you can publish whatever you want and sit until somebody decides to check your work. So, you're not reviewing anybody else's work and nobody else may be reviewing your work, which would kill the site.

I rather prefer the points system. Let's see how many reviews do the people posting for free receive. The site used to work based on reciprocity, measured by the points system. Without reciprocity, nobody would be interested in somebody else's work.

Kiss,

Gacela.

Re: Point system dying?

The point system is alive and well. TheNextBigWriter Premium has received more point-driven reviews and postings than before we launched the new site. What is changing is we now have the option for members to also point non-point content. Some are experimenting doing this with poems and short stories. Some new members are putting up novels this way. These are writers who would have come to the old site and not participated anyway, so it is neither a loss nor gain from the point system perspective.

If you want to remove content posted without points, just leave TheNextBigWriter Free site and then you will be back to a point-only environment.

For those who want want to be assured they will receive feedback, the point system is the way to go. And the coins are an indication of a member that is willing to give feedback in order to get it.

Sol

Re: Point system dying?

I'll reciprocate to anyone who is willing to read my work, whether or not points are involved, and hope those I review for no points will reciprocate in kind whether for points or not. On the other hand, I've noticed some (newbies maybe?) don't understand that reciprocity is just good manners. They post and post but never review.

Re: Point system dying?

...I've noticed some (newbies maybe?) don't understand that reciprocity is just good manners. They post and post but never review.

Many might never reciprocate. That's why if you want to be assured that they will reciprocate either by reviewing your work, or the work of others on the site, you can stick with those using points. But it's up to you.

Re: Point system dying?

That's what I'm saying. Without the points, people only post and do not reciprocate.

Kiss,

Gacela.

Re: Point system dying?

Persons who review my work will get a review in return (It may take a while during the holidays, however).  As Wilma says, it is just good manners.  I would return a review even if it didn't get me any points.  In fact, I read posts because the title intrigues me, I have already connected to the author, or the subject matter is interesting.  The least reason I read a post is for points.

Tom

Re: Point system dying?

On the other hand, if you don't review to get points you will never be able to post to the Premium group.  My question is, if I leave the TNBW free group I will still be able to read "free" content in other groups right?

Re: Point system dying?

Then again, when you review a no points piece why not let the author know about this? The new writers I've reviewed so far was just clueless and wasn't doing it on purpose. And while you're at it, explain the recip process as well, they just new?! That's how it worked when I joined the old site, people told me stuff I didn't know. This isn't a problem with the new site, this is us old siters that need to adapt to the change and keep the good bits from the old site where we can (but not at all cost, the new site has a lot going for it). Hope this make sense! Cheers Janet R

Re: Point system dying?

I think that it should occur to a newbie that in order to get more reviews, reciprocation is a must. This wasn't spelled out in the old site, per se, either, but beyond common courtesy it was logical to do the payback. I made some friends on the site - including you, Aussie - doing that. There will be those who won't even respond to reviews, let alone reciprocate, but who needs those writers, anyway? They've made their prresence, or lack thereof, known. So live and let live, and let the cream (those sincere in their efforts to improve their craft) rise to the top.

Re: Point system dying?

jack the knife wrote:

I think that it should occur to a newbie that in order to get more reviews, reciprocation is a must. This wasn't spelled out in the old site, per se, either, but beyond common courtesy it was logical to do the payback. I made some friends on the site - including you, Aussie - doing that. There will be those who won't even respond to reviews, let alone reciprocate, but who needs those writers, anyway? They've made their prresence, or lack thereof, known. So live and let live, and let the cream (those sincere in their efforts to improve their craft) rise to the top.

Sure, the point system encourages the same sincerity of paid reviews of books sold on Amazon or of merchandise sold anywhere over the internet. If the point system exists to encourage reviews, and I am sure it does, why is there otherwise not a genuine review process, on style and substance, and not so much on grammar and punctuation, only for the sake of reviewing, among disinterested strangers who have nothing to get or give, on TNBW?  It ought to be simple: find a book that has something which interests you and comment on it to the extent it satisfies or disappoints, and why.  But no, everyone either wants to suck up and "make friends"  or get reciprocal reviews of the junk they write for the junk they read.

Re: Point system dying?

Sure, the point system encourages the same sincerity of paid reviews of books sold on Amazon or of merchandise sold anywhere over the internet. If the point system exists to encourage reviews, and I am sure it does, why is there otherwise not a genuine review process, on style and substance, and not so much on grammar and punctuation, only for the sake of reviewing, among disinterested strangers who have nothing to get or give, on TNBW?  It ought to be simple: find a book that has something which interests you and comment on it to the extent it satisfies or disappoints, and why.  But no, everyone either wants to suck up and "make friends"  or get reciprocal reviews of the junk they write for the junk they read.

Seriously? This is the same drivel I listened to when the site originally launched and it proved to be totally worthless. That's my review of your comment.

13 (edited by janet reid 2014-12-12 02:25:59)

Re: Point system dying?

jack the knife wrote:

I think that it should occur to a newbie that in order to get more reviews, reciprocation is a must. This wasn't spelled out in the old site, per se, either, but beyond common courtesy it was logical to do the payback. I made some friends on the site - including you, Aussie - doing that. There will be those who won't even respond to reviews, let alone reciprocate, but who needs those writers, anyway? They've made their prresence, or lack thereof, known. So live and let live, and let the cream (those sincere in their efforts to improve their craft) rise to the top.

When I joined it was different given you couldn't post withoutpoints ignoring location for now which is a topic for another day LOL I joined as a reviewer to get points as I knew I was going to post eventually. But, points aside, most of the replies/feedback I got writers did offer to recip and if not for that it would've taken me much longer to get the hang of things. So all I'm saying is, keep on doing that it can only help new joiners?! And yeah, in the process you do get to know people too! And if you're really lucky you get to make new friends too!

14 (edited by Temple Wang 2014-12-12 02:38:27)

Re: Point system dying?

charles_bell wrote:

But no, everyone either wants to suck up...or get reciprocal reviews of the junk they write for the junk they read.

Wow....
I, for one, would prefer not to be lumped into your "everyone" pile.  Thank you very much, Mr. I-never-met-a-word-I-couldn't-use-as-a-dialogue-tag. :-)

15 (edited by janet reid 2014-12-12 02:37:35)

Re: Point system dying?

Charles, you don't need to make friends or even be friendly, but some decent courtesy does go along way. We're here to learn by reading/reviewing and getting read/reviewed. And surprisingly, work being posted here do need inprovement as I'm sure your writing do as well. If its too hard for you, don't read on and don't leave a review. But referring to anything on this site as "junk" shows to me you need to grow up as a person and as a writer. Of course you can criticize, thats what the site is for, but you can still be decent and supportive in doing so. It's not sucking up, it's called good manners. Each to their own but like Sol said, your comment doesn't contribute anything to this debate.

Re: Point system dying?

SolN wrote:

Sure, the point system encourages the same sincerity of paid reviews of books sold on Amazon or of merchandise sold anywhere over the internet. If the point system exists to encourage reviews, and I am sure it does, why is there otherwise not a genuine review process, on style and substance, and not so much on grammar and punctuation, only for the sake of reviewing, among disinterested strangers who have nothing to get or give, on TNBW?  It ought to be simple: find a book that has something which interests you and comment on it to the extent it satisfies or disappoints, and why.  But no, everyone either wants to suck up and "make friends"  or get reciprocal reviews of the junk they write for the junk they read.

Seriously. This is the same drivel I listened to when the site originally launched and it proved to be totally worthless. That's my review of your comment.

If it is so obvious to you that so many reviews, not driven by the rewards of the point system but rather from honest effort to help, are sincere and productive, give me two examples. On the other hand, if it is your assertion that so few can be driven by other than the point system, why is that?

Re: Point system dying?

charles_bell wrote:
SolN wrote:

Sure, the point system encourages the same sincerity of paid reviews of books sold on Amazon or of merchandise sold anywhere over the internet. If the point system exists to encourage reviews, and I am sure it does, why is there otherwise not a genuine review process, on style and substance, and not so much on grammar and punctuation, only for the sake of reviewing, among disinterested strangers who have nothing to get or give, on TNBW?  It ought to be simple: find a book that has something which interests you and comment on it to the extent it satisfies or disappoints, and why.  But no, everyone either wants to suck up and "make friends"  or get reciprocal reviews of the junk they write for the junk they read.

Seriously. This is the same drivel I listened to when the site originally launched and it proved to be totally worthless. That's my review of your comment.

If it is so obvious to you that so many reviews, not driven by the rewards of the point system but rather from honest effort to help, are sincere and productive, give me two examples. On the other hand, if it is your assertion that so few can be driven by other than the point system, why is that?

You can read reviews of my work that people have generously left for no points.  There are more than two.  Seriously, you [insert your favorite expletive], if you are so disenchanted, then why don't you just go instead of spreading vitriol?

Re: Point system dying?

Thanks Sol - and Temple!

Re: Point system dying?

And Janet!

Re: Point system dying?

janet reid wrote:

Charles, you don't need to make friends or even be friendly, but some decent courtesy does go along way. We're here to learn by reading/reviewing and getting read/reviewed. And surprisingly, work being posted here do need inprovement as I'm sure your writing do as well. If its too hard for you, don't read on and don't leave a review. But referring to anything on this site as "junk" shows to me you need to grow up as a person and as a writer. Of course you can criticize, thats what the site is for, but you can still be decent and supportive in doing so. It's not sucking up, it's called good manners. Each to their own but like Sol said, your comment doesn't contribute anything to this debate.

My opinion formed when I first joined eight years ago, when I remembered (perhaps incorrectly) there was only the point system for reviewing, and only kind, mother-like reviews begat a review in reciprocation, and, worse yet, open and honest reviews begat revenge reviews that had no substance other than naked ridicule. This has changed a bit for the better from what I can see now that I have re-engaged because of the subject line: Point system dying, (and not soon enough for me).  In your reply there is a kind of contradiction: no honest review, when it is scathing but deserving (which I presume you consider indecent), can make "friends."   Why is that?   May I suggest there may be a culture of spoiled middling at best writers who can never be better because of pampered fear of honest reviews that don't make friends or perhaps from some namby-pamby attitude against honesty called good manners. There is no "junk" no this site?  Really?  None? I know there is some that is not junk at all, but who can claim in any pool of anything there is never inferior stuff?

Re: Point system dying?

jack the knife wrote:

And Janet!

Close call Jack!!! LOL But not that I think it's going to make a difference ...

Re: Point system dying?

jack the knife wrote:

Thanks Sol - and Temple!

Personally, I got no time for haters.  People like that aren't worth the effort. By the way, that "block" feature works really well.  "Poof" he's gone like a bad dream.

In the words of that immortal writer of "non-junk":
"Frightened by you, rather,” Miss P. elucidated.

Re: Point system dying?

Temple Wang wrote:

You can read reviews of my work that people have generously left for no points.  There are more than two.  Seriously, you [insert your favorite expletive], if you are so disenchanted, then why don't you just go instead of spreading vitriol?

There appears to be nothing by you that is available for me to read.  Moreover, I never said that by eliminating the points system, honest but what also may be scathing reviews would magically appear.  In fact, if reviews did then trickle down to nothing, as seems to be the prediction by the folks running the show, that also shows there is a culture of dishonesty (or perhaps that is too strong a word for the negativity) circling around this concept of amateur reviews by amateur writers or in the nature  of budding writers so many of whom must have fragile egos and impolite natures.

24 (edited by Temple Wang 2014-12-12 03:37:13)

Re: Point system dying?

charles_bell wrote:
Temple Wang wrote:

You can read reviews of my work that people have generously left for no points.  There are more than two.  Seriously, you [insert your favorite expletive], if you are so disenchanted, then why don't you just go instead of spreading vitriol?

There appears to be nothing by you that is available for me to read.

Well, I guess that "block" feature is doing its job then.  Thanks for the confirmation. *kiss*

Re: Point system dying?

Charles, mate, the site has moved on since you joined. Not saying what you're referring to isn't happening, but it's the minority.

I'm also saying you can give a brutally honest review but you can still be nice.

And no, there's no junk on this site. None. Lots of pieces that needs improvement, incl mine, but junk? Thats harsh and not needed.