Topic: Irregular verbs

No Shortcuts with Irregular VerbsIt isn’t just the disadvantaged or disaffected among us who struggle with irregularverbs. A political insider with his own long-running TV show keeps saying “has ran.” Fifty years ago, a textbook entitled Warriner’s English Grammar and Compositionsaid: “Irregular verbs … cause the greatest single problem in standard verb usagebecause there is no single rule that applies to them. A student of our languagemust know the principal parts of every irregular verb … and the only way to knowthem is to memorize them.” We use these verbs all the time. We might as well get them right. See how you doon the irregular-verb quiz that follows. I'll give you the answers tomorrow.

Irregular Verb Pop Quiz

1. It turned out that being ___ solid actually saved his life. A) frozen B) froze C) freezed

2. Barbara ___ for the faces of a family never seen. A) weeped B) weapt C) wept D) weaped

3. I saved him from getting ___. A) drownded B) drowned C) drownd D) drowneded

4. His actions have ___ to be contrary to his words. A) proven B) proved C) A and B are both correct

5. Leon was ___ down by the tormenting weight of his burdens.
A) drug B) drugged C) drag D) dragged

6 . She kept wearing it and wearing it until it was all ___ out. A) wore B) worn C) A and B are both correct

7. It turned out we had always ___ the answer. A) knewn B) knew C) knowed D) known

8. The book was found ___ open on the floor. A) lieing B) laying C) lying D) lane

9. Why hasn’t someone ___ this by me sooner? A) run B) ran C) running D) ranned

10. We all thought Alfred had already ___ dinner. A) ate B) eaten C) A and B are both correct

Quote Post 1

Re: Irregular verbs

Yes, the writer must be intimate with her irregular verbs ...

Quote Post 2

Re: Irregular verbs

I would counsel writers not to worry about using irregular verbs. Interested readers are almost never confused, irregardless—yes, irregardless is a word https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless, and a valuable one for certain uses—of which you choose between verbs. Pedants may snicker at you, but irregular verbs are a sure way for creating a voice for your non-stuffy character. Even if your POV slips up and gets one right instead of wrong, it is more of a commentary on pedantry than it is on communication to interested readers.

Memphis Trace

Quote Post 3

Re: Irregular verbs

A good workman respects her tools.

Quote Post 4

Re: Irregular verbs

njc wrote:

A good workman respects her tools.

A great workman respects his craft.

Memphis Trace

Quote Post 5

Re: Irregular verbs

My opinion is that there is something askew with one's language ability if he has not already learnt those "irregular" verbs of his native language, should that be spoken consistently at home, before he has gone to school to learn those rules for "regular" verbs, often of foreign origin.  U.K.-standard "kept," "wept", "learnt", "spelt" are good and ancient English, and the American "regular" -ed forms, whether standard or not, are an informal means to spelling reform but often seem unnatural to the native speaker who will have internalized the good and ancient language of his ancestors before he can have remembered he has done so.

Quote Post 6

Re: Irregular verbs

njc wrote:

A good workman respects her tools.

Is this a reference to T&A?

Quote Post 7

8 Reply by j p lundstrom (edited by j p lundstrom 2016-03-09 14:36:26)

Re: Irregular verbs

Hey, Janet--
Nice attempt to make people aware of their grammatical errors. They have become so widespread and language is such a dynamic phenomenon, that those "misuses" will, by their very popularity, eventually be considered standard. Words like "irregardless," which are an offense to my ear and eye, may be deemed acceptable by a wide section of the populace, which means they become correct usage.
Charles's "kept," "wept,"and "learnt" may someday become so unfamiliar and unused they no longer exist in everyday use, and thereby will be considered incorrect. BUT WHO KNOWS? Maybe not.
In the meantime, we English teachers will strive to teach the current standards. My personal gripe stems. I think, from writers' relying on their computers' spell check, which leads to gross misuse of words, for example "broach" for "brooch," "eminent" for "imminent" (and vice versa), even "peak" for "peek" (you would think, as children, they would have learned that one). OMG!
Carry on.

Quote Post 8

Re: Irregular verbs

Charles_F_Bell wrote:
njc wrote:

A good workman respects her tools.

Is this a reference to T&A?

Depends on which T and which A.

JPL, worse than 'peak' and 'peek' is either of them for 'pique', or the W that intrudes on 'ring the changes' and 'reckless', and escapes from 'wreaking havoc'.

Quote Post 9

Re: Irregular verbs

Memphis Trace wrote:

I would counsel writers not to worry about using irregular verbs. Interested readers are almost never confused, irregardless—yes, irregardless is a word https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless, and a valuable one for certain uses—of which you choose between verbs. Pedants may snicker at you, but irregular verbs are a sure way for creating a voice for your non-stuffy character. Even if your POV slips up and gets one right instead of wrong, it is more of a commentary on pedantry than it is on communication to interested readers.

Memphis Trace

In dialogue in order to create a speech pattern or persona, using bad grammar is acceptable, but not in narrative.

Quote Post 10

Re: Irregular verbs

Charles_F_Bell wrote:

My opinion is that there is something askew with one's language ability if he has not already learnt those "irregular" verbs of his native language, should that be spoken consistently at home, before he has gone to school to learn those rules for "regular" verbs, often of foreign origin.  U.K.-standard "kept," "wept", "learnt", "spelt" are good and ancient English, and the American "regular" -ed forms, whether standard or not, are an informal means to spelling reform but often seem unnatural to the native speaker who will have internalized the good and ancient language of his ancestors before he can have remembered he has done so.

Well said, but there are some that are irregular in both U.K. & U.S. and it grates my last nerve to hear newscaster say things like, "Have ran." Or messing up lay/lie. I've heard some supposedly educated folks say, "I lied down." Needless to say, once when my local anchor mutilated the language, I emailed the station manager.

Quote Post 11

Re: Irregular verbs

j p lundstrom wrote:

Hey, Janet--
Nice attempt to make people aware of their grammatical errors. They have become so widespread and language is such a dynamic phenomenon, that those "misuses" will, by their very popularity, eventually be considered standard. Words like "irregardless," which are an offense to my ear and eye, may be deemed acceptable by a wide section of the populace, which means they becomes correct usage.
Charles's "kept," "wept,"and "learnt" may someday become so unfamiliar an unused they no longer exist in everyday use, and thereby will be considered incorrect. BUT WHO KNOWS? Maybe not.
In the meantime, we English teachers will strive to teach the current standards. My personal gripe stems. I think, from writers' relying on their computers' spell check, which leads to gross misuse of words, for example "broach" for "brooch," "eminent" for "imminent" (and vice versa), even "peak" for "peek" (you would think, as children, they would have learned that one). OMG!
Carry on.

And text speak is making it even worse! Your/you're, if not confused both become ur. And that's just one. Don't get me started. I actually had some seniors turn in essays with ur in them. You can bet the RED pen came out!

Quote Post 12

Re: Irregular verbs

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:
Memphis Trace wrote:

I would counsel writers not to worry about using irregular verbs. Interested readers are almost never confused, irregardless—yes, irregardless is a word https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless, and a valuable one for certain uses—of which you choose between verbs. Pedants may snicker at you, but irregular verbs are a sure way for creating a voice for your non-stuffy character. Even if your POV slips up and gets one right instead of wrong, it is more of a commentary on pedantry than it is on communication to interested readers.

Memphis Trace

In dialogue in order to create a speech pattern or persona, using bad grammar is acceptable, but not in narrative.

I am sure Mark Twain missed this wise counsel when he wrote The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

In narrative, it is a particularly effective way to add 'voice'. ¿If a character talks using irregular verbs, surely he thinks and stews in his juices in the vernacular?

For instance, a character who uses irregardless is not going to shed his pomposity—or his ignorance of eager linguists' fear and loathing of the now irregular word—should he shut his mouth long enough to have a coherent thought. Here is how Ring Lardner used it at least once in his story, The Big Town, 1921: I told them that irregardless of what you read in books, they's some members of the theatrical profession that occasionally visits the place where they sleep.

Irregardless of what eager linguists may think of irregardless, I would point to Lardner's effective usage as a guide for creative writers trying to find and enhance their 'voice' in a work.
     
Memphis Trace

Quote Post 13

Re: Irregular verbs

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:
j p lundstrom wrote:

Hey, Janet--
Nice attempt to make people aware of their grammatical errors. They have become so widespread and language is such a dynamic phenomenon, that those "misuses" will, by their very popularity, eventually be considered standard. Words like "irregardless," which are an offense to my ear and eye, may be deemed acceptable by a wide section of the populace, which means they becomes correct usage.
Charles's "kept," "wept,"and "learnt" may someday become so unfamiliar an unused they no longer exist in everyday use, and thereby will be considered incorrect. BUT WHO KNOWS? Maybe not.
In the meantime, we English teachers will strive to teach the current standards. My personal gripe stems. I think, from writers' relying on their computers' spell check, which leads to gross misuse of words, for example "broach" for "brooch," "eminent" for "imminent" (and vice versa), even "peak" for "peek" (you would think, as children, they would have learned that one). OMG!
Carry on.

And text speak is making it even worse! Your/you're, if not confused both become ur. And that's just one. Don't get me started. I actually had some seniors turn in essays with ur in them. You can bet the RED pen came out!

I think few semi-educated readers are confused by omitting apostrophes. Only eager grammarians with RED pens. And even they are not confused: They know what is meant, probably quicker than the semi-educated, or they couldn't mark it.

Better get on the Kill the Apostrophe bandwagon http://www.killtheapostrophe.com/ before it's too late if you want to add dignity to your communications. I'm reading All the Pretty Horses right now and McCarthy is on board. Lee Smith did it for much of her story On Agate Hill http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/books … .html?_r=0

Eliminating apostrophes is a good tool for great writers. Use it well.

Memphis Trace

Quote Post 14

15 Reply by njc (edited by njc 2016-03-09 11:21:46)

Re: Irregular verbs

I'm a genuine philanthopist, all other kinds are sham.  https://youtu.be/K_9XH3Lyj8I

Quote Post 15

Re: Irregular verbs

Memphis Trace wrote:
Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:
Memphis Trace wrote:

I would counsel writers not to worry about using irregular verbs. Interested readers are almost never confused, irregardless—yes, irregardless is a word https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless, and a valuable one for certain uses—of which you choose between verbs. Pedants may snicker at you, but irregular verbs are a sure way for creating a voice for your non-stuffy character. Even if your POV slips up and gets one right instead of wrong, it is more of a commentary on pedantry than it is on communication to interested readers.

Memphis Trace

In dialogue in order to create a speech pattern or persona, using bad grammar is acceptable, but not in narrative.

I am sure Mark Twain missed this wise counsel when he wrote The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

In narrative, it is a particularly effective way to add 'voice'. ¿If a character talks using irregular verbs, surely he thinks and stews in his juices in the vernacular?

For instance, a character who uses irregardless is not going to shed his pomposity—or his ignorance of eager linguists' fear and loathing of the now irregular word—should he shut his mouth long enough to have a coherent thought. Here is how Ring Lardner used it at least once in his story, The Big Town, 1921: I told them that irregardless of what you read in books, they's some members of the theatrical profession that occasionally visits the place where they sleep.

Irregardless of what eager linguists may think of irregardless, I would point to Lardner's effective usage as a guide for creative writers trying to find and enhance their 'voice' in a work.
     
Memphis Trace

I repeat: NARRATIVE. Thought is internal dialogue. Sure, my hillbillies would say and think--I ain't gonna do it.

But when the author narrates, s/he should not say he ain't gonna do it. No, it should be something like--Sally Mae knew he would not do it.

Quote Post 16

17 Reply by Memphis Trace (edited by Memphis Trace 2016-03-09 14:34:00)

Re: Irregular verbs

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:
Memphis Trace wrote:
Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

In dialogue in order to create a speech pattern or persona, using bad grammar is acceptable, but not in narrative.

I am sure Mark Twain missed this wise counsel when he wrote The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

In narrative, it is a particularly effective way to add 'voice'. ¿If a character talks using irregular verbs, surely he thinks and stews in his juices in the vernacular?

For instance, a character who uses irregardless is not going to shed his pomposity—or his ignorance of eager linguists' fear and loathing of the now irregular word—should he shut his mouth long enough to have a coherent thought. Here is how Ring Lardner used it at least once in his story, The Big Town, 1921: I told them that irregardless of what you read in books, they's some members of the theatrical profession that occasionally visits the place where they sleep.

Irregardless of what eager linguists may think of irregardless, I would point to Lardner's effective usage as a guide for creative writers trying to find and enhance their 'voice' in a work.
     
Memphis Trace

I repeat: NARRATIVE. Thought is internal dialogue. Sure, my hillbillies would say and think--I ain't gonna do it.

But when the author narrates, s/he should not say he ain't gonna do it. No, it should be something like--Sally Mae knew he would not do it.

And I repeat that NARRATIVE in the vernacular is usually superior to narrative written in school marm language if Sallie Mae is the POV being narrated about. School marms should limit their counsel to grammar and language, not to creative NARRATIVE.

Memphis Trace

Quote Post 17

Re: Irregular verbs

Janet Taylor-Perry wrote:

[
And text speak is making it even worse! Your/you're, if not confused both become ur. And that's just one. Don't get me started. I actually had some seniors turn in essays with ur in them. You can bet the RED pen came out!

Good for you!

Quote Post 18