Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

The concept is intriguing, Philisha.  Rebecca might have other plans, but your advice is good.  I'm always looking for a gripping formula to start each book.  This sounds like a great thing to browse when life gives me a moment to breathe.  Thanks for the advice!

A

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

PByrd wrote:

Here's a completely random thought: Have the story begin with a woman's scream that chills the bones. Matthew questions if it were real or coyotes (don't know if they have those there or not) or something out of his worst nightmare. They follow the sound of a horse crying. It stands over an unconscious woman, protecting her. The woman is on the ground and her delicate ankles are exposed, but he shouldn't be looking because she's hurt and its not right. The arrow is visible sticking out of her arm. He drops to the ground off his horse, using it as a shield if need be, but he determines the danger has passed. When he rolls the woman over he discovers it is Catherine, his unrequited love. There is a bump on her head and is slightly bleeding but she doesn't wake. Determined not to lose her ever again, he takes her with him (on his horse) to his home to help her mend. He can't fathom why she would be there at night alone. Was she the threat he'd been warned about? No, because they'd expected a raid from neighboring clans, not a lone woman. Had she lost her mind after her husbands death? He wouldn't know because he'd not checked on her.

Random thoughts are good!  Although these type of comments may not make it into the final version, it usually acted as the catalyst to get that first line, paragraph and chapter nailed!  So thank you for taking the time, and for caring!  smile

PByrd wrote:

I've said all this to show you that there are tons of ways you can approach the beginning of the story

One of the reasons it's the hardest bit to write?!

PByrd wrote:

and still set the scene and tension. I subscribe to a blog that "Flogs a Pro." I've learned a lot from the floggings they give famous, well-known authors. The premiss is they take the first 17 lines from a story and ask the hard questions:
1. Story questions
2. Tension (in the readers, not just the characters)
3. Voice
4. Clarity
5. Scene setting
6. Character
Yes, all this in only the first 17 lines. I try to make sure my story fits in this as well. What I originally had to begin with was a prologue but quickly determined it wasn't enough to answer those 6 questions. This is your story, and you can make it anything you want because it's your imagination. However, ask those questions of your first 17 lines.
http://writerunboxed.com/2014/04/17/flo … st-page-5/

I haven't started with changing the Ch1 POV to Matthew yet, so I have no idea where I'll start.  But this is a good list to add to my reference material.  Thank you for sharing!!!

PByrd wrote:

I hope this encourages you because you have a good plot. I love historical romance!
Philisha

This does more than you know!  I'm running out of ways to thank everyone on this site for their support and encouragement!  Just really glad you see promise in this!

Thanks!
Janet R

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

For info, I've posted a new chapter ... Chapter 11 (Title: Chapter 9 - Falling).
Cheers
Janet

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

I'll get to it if work is slow tonight

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

I think just changing the tense would work.
Simple Past will put it into the rest of the story.
If you want a long flash back it is better to put it in Simple Past and use italics to show that it is a flash back.
A lot of "had"s can drag the reading out so it is best to avoid using a whole lot of Past Perfect in fiction.

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

KHippolite wrote:

Arms crossed, Catherine’s fingers drummed a rapid beat on her sleeves as she paced in front of the hearth. She had arrived the night before only to find Anthony out and servants unwilling to disclose his whereabouts. If she knew him well enough, he'd been drinking and had arrived late at night. The groom she'd seeking him sent an hour ago would have returned by now if Anthony was still away from the manor.

I was thinking this would be the way to go ... condensing a day-and-a-half into a paragraph or two.

KHippolite wrote:

But I have an even better suggestion than a tell-all-flashback. I mean nine paragraphs is a stunning amount of real-estate. You could just tell the scene live

The scene covers a day-and-a-half of boring stuff really, hence why I just want to give a re-cap.  If I can think of something to spice it up, I'd go this way, otherwise, as said, getting it down/limit the space it takes up, is the way to go.

Good feedback!  Thanks!

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Rebecca Vaughn wrote:

I think just changing the tense would work.
Simple Past will put it into the rest of the story.
If you want a long flash back it is better to put it in Simple Past and use italics to show that it is a flash back.
A lot of "had"s can drag the reading out so it is best to avoid using a whole lot of Past Perfect in fiction.

Rebecca, I'll keep this as my get-out-of-jail card if I can't do the one paragraph thing!  There is a heap of "had"s that makes it really slow.
Thanks!!!!

33 (edited by janet reid 2014-12-05 12:03:55)

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Who's who?

Here is a quick reference guide to who is who in Northern Skies.  For the old people!  wink

Matthew Dacre - The Earl of Norwood
#  Black John*  - Captain of the Guard at Norwood Castle and an expert swordsman
#  Tom* - expert scout, pathfinder and spy
#  George* - expert with horses
#  Henry* - expert medic (nearly as good as an old village wife!)
#  Robert* - expert archer
#  Nicholas - bailiff at Dacre Tower
#  Alice - Nicholas's wife
#  Mary - chamber maid at Dacre Tower
#  Will Taylor - scout from Dacre Tower
#  Davie - footloun from Dacre Tower

* denotes Matthew's trusted friends and members of his inner circle

Catherine Miller nee Aiden - Dowager Viscountess Eamont
#  Anthony Aiden, Baron Aiden - brother
#  Simon Aiden, Baron Aiden - father (deceased)
#  James Forster - captain of the guard at Aiden Tower
#  Humphrey Miller, Viscount Eamont - Catherine's husband (deceased)
#  Agnes - Catherine's waiting woman at Aiden Tower

Hope this helps!  I'll update the list as we go and some may even disappear eventually.

Cheers
Janet R

ps - it's not really so bad, is it?!  smile

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

I've made some changes to Chapter 12 (Chapter 10 - After the storm).  This is what I've added because it makes better sense to do it in Ch12 than the next one.  This will clarify why Matthew is still planning to raid Aiden Tower despite Catherine's assurance that Anthony (or Lord Brat for those who's more inclined to his proper title smile ) isn't involved.

Black John chuckled.  “Aye, but only because I don’t want to miss witnessing the young lord Aiden’s long overdue rebuke.”
The mentioning of Aiden’s name forced Matthew to replace pleasant thoughts with not so pleasant ones.  He needed to focus on today’s pursuit at some point.
Although he believed Catherine when she had stated her brother meant him no harm, he wasn’t about to extend the courtesy to Aiden until he proved himself wor-thy of Matthew’s trust.  Matthew also knew that sitting down with the young Lord Aiden and reasonably discussing the finer points of border politics in a civilised way wasn’t going to be enough to bring Aiden around. 
Today’s raid on Aiden Tower was to serve the sole purpose of showing the younger man what the stakes were.  And Aiden was about to make an important de-cision, whether he liked it or not.

Thanks for everyone reading and all your support so far!
Cheers
Janet R

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

amy!!!!!!  I need help please!!!!
* crosses fingers and toes hoping amy can hear me shout her name desperately whereever she is *

At some point in NS, someone is going to be punched hard and will land flat on their back.  The puncher will then shoot the punchee with a crossbow through the neck/throat, pinning him to the ground basically.

So now I'm wondering, apart from the entry and exit wounds, would blood also come out of the victim's mouth like you see in the movies?  And how long would the victim suffer before he eventually dies?  I'm also assuming speaking would be impossible.

Yeah, things are going to get worse before it gets any better!

Much appreciated!
xx

36

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

janet reid wrote:

At some point in NS, someone is going to be punched hard and will land flat on their back.  The puncher will then shoot the punchee with a crossbow through the neck/throat, pinning him to the ground basically.

Aren't crossbow bolts quite short?  Too short to pin someone in place?

If you mean to pin someone, you probably want to shoot them through the big part of a big muscle and hope you don't hit an artery or a nerve.

But Amy will probably tell us that even that's improbable, and that anyone who does it deliberately means for the victim to die there.

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

amy has trained you well!  hehehehe

Intent is to kill.  And the victim will not make it as part of the story-line.

njc, tread carefully calling it bolts when someone is close with a crossbow, apparently they get really upset if you don't call it arrows as bolts imply it's not archery.  Go figure.  Lengths vary, but were up to 14 inches long, so more than enough to pin someone in place through a not too thick body part.  But even if a shorter one was used, I don't think you'll be lifting your head soon anyways.

Thanks for this!
JR

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Heard you yelling...I would expect the crossbow to go through the meat and bury itself in the ground. If the arrow was 12 inches long, figure at least 4 inches would be in the dirt, drastically shortening the shaft that would be sticking through of the person. However it is possible, so I'll run with it.

If the arrow was stuck in wood or a cleft of stone, that would be an entirely different thing.

To answer your question, any blood from the lungs can froth out the mouth. To get a lot of bleeding, shoot across the carotid and into the windpipe. Have the arrow go through and bury itself(or have the person pull out the arrow) this leaves a hole for the carotid to bleed into the trachea and froth up/drown the person in their own blood. The only true requirement is to have a hole that connects from windpipe to big bleeding vessel.
I suggest having the bad guy knock down the victim and step on his chest to shoot. Have the Vic's head turned to the side so the shaft goes across the neck.

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Note that the arrow in the neck would push on the bleeder and keep the person from dying. The shaft has to be out to let the bleeding to occur

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Another idea. Have the killer step on the Vic's forehead to shoot him. It would turn the head correctly and besides, it's evil.

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

FYI, I use the term 'bolts'. Pretty common around here

42 (edited by janet reid 2014-12-19 14:28:47)

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

I was yelling pretty hard!  smile  And, lucky for you I don't have a crossbow, so you can say bolt-bolt-bolt na-na-na-na as many times as you like!  hehehe  wink

So, ok, shooter shot victim on horseback.  Victim takes a hard fall, probably breaks a leg or something, but first shot didn't penetrate or wound due to "jack" armour he's wearing.  Shooter stands on victim's chest, victim doesn't turn his head to the side, only close his eyes and wait for the shot.  It goes through the windpipe.  Doesn't have to stick out, but I'd guess victim won't move his head either way with most of the arrow still stuck in his neck.  So since a major artery hasn't been nicked, there won't be any blood frothing from his mouth and he won't die quickly.  If need be, shooter can take another shot at close range, but that would depend on the impact of the neck shot.  So consider only a single shot through his neck.

If he's young and healthy, and found 3.5hrs later.  Still alive?  Any movement from him would cause some bleeding?  He'd be weak but still breathing?  Able to speak?  I doubt, but you'd probably know better.  I also doubt there's much they would be able to do to help him survive something like this.  So once they've pulled the arrow/bolt out, his time is pretty much up?  How quick would depend on the blood loss?

If all else fail, could always have him step on the victim's head like you've suggested! 

Although I think we're going to test K's sensibilities with this  smile

Thanks a mill!

43

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Not bolts?  What about quarrels?

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

A shot to the neck could break the neck which can although might not make death very fast. A shot to the neck will likely make the wounded unable to breathe. The wounded would then pass out in 30 seconds to about a minute. Once the wounded is out cold, actual death would come from suffocation or bleeding. For a lot of blood to come out of the mouth the arrow might need to be removed from the neck. This would likely speed up death.

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

njc wrote:

Not bolts?  What about quarrels?

Go for it, I'm not a crossbow archer!  wink

Janet's survival tip for the day:
When one is surrounded by crossbow archers, look them calmly in the eye and casually comment in a high-pitched tone of excitement and interest:
"I'm an avid fan of archery, can I please see your arrows?"

If it's fletched, it's an arrow.  If it's not, you may get away with calling it bolts, although I'd make sure to mention something in the lines of real archers use crossbows!  smile

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Rebecca Vaughn wrote:

A shot to the neck could break the neck which can although might not make death very fast. A shot to the neck will likely make the wounded unable to breathe. The wounded would then pass out in 30 seconds to about a minute. Once the wounded is out cold, actual death would come from suffocation or bleeding. For a lot of blood to come out of the mouth the arrow might need to be removed from the neck. This would likely speed up death.

So basically it depends.  Which works fine for me as it gives me options.  I'm a few chapters away from this scene still, but I'm curious now what the comments will be!

Thanks for this!!!
xx

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

When one is surrounded by crossbow archers, look them calmly in the eye and casually comment in a high-pitched tone of excitement and interest:  (Surrounded by archers, they can shoot each other as they try to shoot you.  All you need to do is get out of the circle and get one or two of them for cover and you'll make it.)

Remember that it takes a fair amt of time to nock a crossbow, so there is time to get your licks in.

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

Flattery will get you anywhere, including out of a circle of daft crossbow archers, especially when you compliment them on the length and quality of their arrows!  wink

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

KHippolite wrote:

No... I meant Agnes the conniving maid who had the audacity to not produce Matthew upon command.

Site is playing up, can't add comments from my computer but on my phone I can. In any case, K, are you referring to the maid that got touchy feely with Matthew? If so, that happened at Aiden Tower and lucky for M and the maid C was nowhere near.

Re: Northern Skies - Janet!

You've got the right maid, but Agnes hasn't been asked to produce Matthew or Anthony? She was the one that had to inform C that Anthony had been out drinking instead of doing what he's supposed to like sorting out his tenant's problems and shit. But that chapter together with Ch1 is up for a major rewrite, so next revision will look lots different. Agnes will unlikely survive, unless she starts playing a bigger role than packing bags. In an earlier chapter she wasn't much help to C before her wedding day either, but that has also changed completely.  In any case, I had no idea she came across as conniving, I was going for motherly!