Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
Prime suspects are Catherine's step-relations.
277 2015-08-22 20:45:31 (edited by janet reid 2015-08-22 20:47:12)
- janet reid
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
Wow! Slow down peoples! You're not supposed to talk and talk and talk while I'm having fun at the NW Washington Fair, or should I rather say, the AWESOME NW WA Fair! Before I get to business, it was great! Similar to what I'm used to (rides, entertainment, shows, food - although not quite the same or the same portions or the same price (much much much cheaper here, the fair rides and entrance too compared to the Royal Perth Show). Experienced a few new/first in my life things too - kids rodeo (as young as 5 years old, on sheep!) [missed the "real" rodeo, but there will more opportunities to come, so it's not a biggy] and an event where dogs have to jump for a prop suspended over a huge inflatable pool! It was a great day/night feeling like a kid again. But I digress.
K wrote:
Men's minds are like trains. We're chugging forward to the destination or slogging away from it. The only time we switch tracks is if the current track has no possible chance to get us to the destination. And even then we might stay on it just to be double sure.
I think I get this to some extent (I have after all been on the receiving end of men's single-mindedness a couple of times in my life 
), but the question I now have is: when guys are "interested" in a lady, will they never ever analyse it/think about it? ie I'm trying to show that with Matthew, it's not lust only, but he also cares about her emotions and brain too. Too much or not possible at all or too soon perhaps?
njc wrote:
It was my impression that if you wanted to be on the wrong side of Black John it would help to have either an army or a death wish.
amy wrote:
Interesting. I agree with NJC, so that would mean showing BJ's skill set before the actual battle so that it isn't a surprise or Deux Ex Machina.
This is interesting, especially with Amy agreeing here too. So I have a couple of questions:
(1) Is this based on the first version or on what you've seen so far in this posted version?
(2) What are your thoughts on Matthew? ie how do you rate Matthew's "dangerous-ness/lethal-ness"?
As a side-note, my original comment was more Matthew AND BJ together you need an army kind of thing. My biggest concern here is that BJ is overshadowing Matthew which I can't have/allow, as much as I like the big fella.
Also, some of their skill sets will be on display when they raid Anthony's tower. And some more of their skill set/level of greatness as well as their approach to be battle ready at all times as well as their "personalities" will be displayed as they beat the snot out of Anthony, sorry, "help" him, I meant to say help the poor youngster. It's a better fit for my timeline as I don't have to force the issue while they're looking for the bad guy too. I could mention it, at best, but I don't think there will be an opportunity to properly display it (in any great detail to do it justice) before the raid. Also, it has been hinted at (remember when Catherine's and Anthony's dad died - Matthew was on a reprisal raid and survived, so he must be okay with his lance and sword, yes?)
amy wrote:
I see BJ as a lone Wolf. He doesn't play well with others but will behave because he is lessor to M.
njc wrote:
And yet he played well with Matthew as a child.
Both can be true and doesn't have to be exclusive. Depends on life changing events as well and BJ lost his wife and unborn child in a fire. That could change a man that was really in love. It won't come out too strongly in NS (and I think I have decided to tone down on BJ's aggressiveness for exactly the reason not to overshadow M) , but the next story (Northern Ice - preliminary title) will get into this when a scullery maid crosses paths with BJ and turns his life upside down. (One day you'll be able to rip it apart, sorry, review that one too! 
njc wrote:
Well, he showed up in the first chapter. We just don't know who he is.
Just when it looks like Matthew and Catherine have either reached stasis or are an arm's length length from Real Progress, the villain must strike again.
True and true. Readers know there is a villain, but whether he is lurking in the background already or not, I'm not going to say in this thread. I want to know how long I'm keeping you guys guessing and based on that, I might make him "disappear" more into the background or not (but only if no one goes - wait a minute, that's cheating, it can't be him!) in the next revision round. So basically, I want you lot to kick yourselves for not suspecting/knowing/realising who it was. Just know that I will also rub your noses in it, so consider the glove to be thrown on the floor!
Put differently for the one that wants a list of names and play the NS boardgame of "who dunnit", amy (hehehehe), you don't need a list. A few names will obviously be innocent given that they were with Matthew at the time when bad things are happening, but remember, Isaac's sister overheard TWO men talking, which implies the villain isn't acting on his own, he has help.
*SPOILER ALERT*
This guy will get away in NS, but he will meet justice in the third book of the series (Northern Fire - preliminary title) when Anthony meets a lady that knocks him over (literally or not, I don't know yet, Anthony's story is too far away for me to worry about the details at the moment - I only worry about the details that need to line up in NS at the moment).
*SPOILER ALERT*
The killer of Matthew's brother, parents, and BJ's wife will be taken care of in the second book while BJ falls in LURVVVE ...
amy wrote:
In other words, having the villain introduced but not revealed yet...getting to see him in his non-scheming role.
He's there, all innocent and non-scheming or not. And he's GOOOODDDDDDD. He needs to be, otherwise it will be too easy for Matthew.
njc wrote:
Prime suspects are Catherine's step-relations.
Good try, njc, but I'm not saying anything. *covers ears and sings tra-la-la-lah-laaaaa*
But this was a great discussion to read! It means people are thinking, analysing, wondering and you guys are GREAT and the BEST (but I knew this already). I want NS (and the other books) to be more than just about the relationship, especially because in romance, everyone knows the two will end up together, it's just a matter of time and how. But apart from the villain, there is also the sub-plot complication of everyone thinking Catherine can't have children ... I'm just crossing all my fingers and toes and ears hoping I can pull this off. But then again *uncrossing fingers, toes and ears* I'm in good company here, so I'll just be fine. I will be, right? Right?!!!!
- amy s
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
I can't get over the rodeo kids with sheep:-)
There needs to be more mention of the raid that killed C's father earlier in this book. Make it a reason C hasn't seen M for eight years. That way, it comes up sooner
- janet reid
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
amy s wrote:
I can't get over the rodeo kids with sheep:-)
There needs to be more mention of the raid that killed C's father earlier in this book. Make it a reason C hasn't seen M for eight years. That way, it comes up sooner
From what I have seen, sheep rodeo has little to do with skill and all to do with the sheep's temperament! It is cute as hell but I do question the parenting skills LOL! They wear helmets, fall 3 feet or less to the ground and even when the sheep also fell down, no bones were broken, but still ... 5 years old?! Some of the kids are natural entertainers and wooed the crowd (and it was a massive crowd at the fair yesterday)!
Now for business. This seems to be one of my weaknesses and something I don't understand really. I thought it would be okay to leave readers wondering about stuff as long as it is cleared up sometime soon down the road. I realise I have a really complicated first meet concept going, as well as a lot of baggage from the past, but I can only mention so much earlier in the book before readers need to trust that all will be fully explained/revealed eventually. My first chapter can only be so long ... So would it be good to mention the raid sooner? I agree Amy. But is it really important (critically so) to know more now about the raid that killed C's father when the only reason behind it is to "show" Matthew's warrior skills? I don't think so, but I could be wrong ...
280 2015-08-23 00:58:18 (edited by njc 2015-08-23 00:58:37)
- njc
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
Janet, even when Matthew and Black J were playing, it would have been natural for Matthew to have taken the lead. Later, when John was widowed, the natural tendency to turn to the 'technical' aspects of his work and away from the human parts would increase that effect.
- njc
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
janet reid wrote:
My first chapter can only be so long ... So would it be good to mention the raid sooner? I agree Amy. But is it really important (critically so) to know more now about the raid that killed C's father when the only reason behind it is to "show" Matthew's warrior skills? I don't think so, but I could be wrong ...
Don't stretch your first chapter. Instead, use the current risk to Matthew to have him wonder (later in the story) about whether the two are related. And you can put up a flashback for him to wonder about.
- amy s
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
I think you need to get the first draft of your book on paper and then revise for better display of M/ addition of the raid info/ more hints about the villain...during the second draft. All of this thinking is dragging your story into slow-mode. I think a lot of these questions are going to answer themselves after you get the first draft in place.
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
K wrote:
Before I answer that, let me revert to the original situation that caught my attention: Matthew thinking of 5 ways to undress her.
He was actually thinking about 5 ways to "storm the castle", 3 of those ways did not involve the "front gate". But this sounds as if it's flawed in any case from what I'm reading ... are you saying men don't think mmm, I like her and I can think of 5 different ways of various undress to make her "happy"?
K wrote:
Picture Bob in a darkened room necking with Melissa (do you kids even use that term these days?). Melissa suddenly slides off her shirt and reaches for her bra strap.
Bob thinking: Wow! But I wish she would have taken off her socks before taking off her shirt
*said no man ever*No, if Bob is thinking about getting Melissa to act in this fashion, he probably doesn't have an auxiliary method playing in his head at the same time. If Meliisa informs him that the conditions of his desired action require him to remove her socks, then at this point Bob will revise his plan to include the socks.
You know... when men attack a castle, they will usually storm the front gate. If the defenders have boiling oil sitting over the front gate, we will then consider scaling the wall. As long as the front gate presents itself and is not guarded and suits the objective, that's probably the direction we will head. The time to think about alternate routes is definitely not while you're staring at the enemy in the eye.
(I'm sorry I drew a parallel betweeen flirting and storming castles, apt though it may be)
Anyway... you said brains and emotion, and to do this, you'll want a war in his head between wanting to boink and wanting to talk. By talk I mean... hmm... He'd be thinking how much he enjoys her company... looking for excuses to get her to stay in the room.
But this is a problem. They haven't met in 8 years? He doesn't really think he enjoys her company after that length of time unless they were close or intimate before. It doesn't sound like they were much more than occasional playmate - not someone Matthew has shared emotional or intellectual capital with.
Just the usual boys not wanting to play with girls stuff FYI.
K wrote:
Thus you need something to jolt Matthew from the "physical needs" track to the other. There are many options, both internal and external.
a) He's thinking about boinking and she gets tears in her eyes. This is often enough to get us off the sex track. At this point, our minds switch to the comfort track. We will hug or offer consolation or whatever's in our power. If he consoles her and is still thinking of sexing her, he's really using that consolation as a way into her pants - a trick the players have usually mastered. In other words, if you go this route, I greatly recommed he's thinking one or the other, but not both
I think this may solve the problem, because this is pretty much what I was thinking. He was all hot and bothered, and now she's crying. Although, it wouldn't be nice to comfort her as a means to get under her skirts. So I will have him hot and bothered (all whatever kids are calling it these days, how the hell should I know) and then only concerned (but not confused?). For female readers, I need to be sure that at no point M comes across as only being concerned because he wants to have sex with her, but because she is having an impact on him at a different level to anyone before her ...
K wrote:
b) He makes a move and she says no. This wouldn't work with the storyline, so I'm ignoring it
c) He's had a deep relationship in the past (possibly a troubled one). Thus, thinking of boinking rings up a red light that says "Hey, what about the woman behind the mask" and causes him to wonder what she's thinking. If no prior relationship, this can be done with a regular guy that has a deep emotive aspect or is highly in touch with his feminine side.
c-1) Matthew is concerned with boinking 5 different ways and also concerned with Catherine's mental well-being
I suspect you want Matthew as a hard-assed fighter-type. This is going to be very difficult to portray a hard-assed fighter not surrounded in women + sisters yet who reads them well and concerns himself with their values, but it could be done!
Let's call this "Internal realization"
But if this guy is thinking long term knowing that women grow old and then intelligence and brains are somewhat important to keep the flame alive?
K wrote:
c-2) Matthew doesn't want sex. She's just a girl he used to know. Until Catherine actively does something to get on the lust-radar
This makes your life difficult because it makes them likely to boink right away
Let's call this "External realization"
At this stage, Catherine has no idea what M has in mind or isn't doing to anything about it. It is coming though ... soon too.
K wrote:
c-3) Matthew wants sex... Until Catherine actively does something that reminds him the little girl he used to know grew up
This would be a good route to go. It means Matthew doesn't need to be as sensitive. Once Catherine hits that nerve, he can safely think about both without having to be sensitive
Another form of "External realization"
This could also work. Although, her riding into the night without a thought is pretty impulsive and what she used to be like. Is that not enough or clear enough or strong enough?
K wrote:
How and when the moment triggers and Matthew changes gears depends on your desired heat level, but you want it to be a thunderclap (otherwise, there was no point in the eight year gap, right? The gap is to make the reunion that much sweeter).
Personally, I like the slow-burn romances, so I'd be tempted to leave it at the physical and let her soak into his blood over time. If you go the other route and bring it in sooner you're more dependent on the past and flashbacks to explain why they're so into each other so quickly.
Not really. This is romance after all. They could never have seen each other before in their lives, and it is all sparks and desire and ooh-aah's.
K wrote:
What I'm saying is that the depth you need Matthew to show is hard to pull off in a chapter seven without some divine cattleprod to zap him. Taylor Swift (I know! Don't roll your eyes) nailed that switching of the tracks perfectly:
You fight and you talk
One night he wakes
Strange look on his face
Pauses, then says
You're my best friend
And you knew what it was
He is in love
This made me think ... (Tay-Tay K?! I won't ask or mention this to anyone else! ), and I don't know if it will make the cut and don't get changed, but Matthew is never going to admit loving her. But she will know without any doubt that he does. But if I don't pull this off or readers complain about it (let's face it, women for some or other reason have to hear the words), it's easy enough to change. But I refuse to write a romance where the woman brings the man "to his knees", make him beg or a marshmallow. Ugh, I hate it, especially when the man is a warrior in complete control of his emotions etc. etc.
So in short, are you saying keep it simple, ie only lust at this time and then as their relationship intensifies, bring in feelings?
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
amy s wrote:
I think you need to get the first draft of your book on paper and then revise for better display of M/ addition of the raid info/ more hints about the villain...during the second draft. All of this thinking is dragging your story into slow-mode. I think a lot of these questions are going to answer themselves after you get the first draft in place.
I'm not revising, I'm making notes and this seems like an important one I don't want to loose. I don't want to imagine where this thread is going to be at when I'm finished with the first draft, and with some of these things being talked in other threads, I really don't want to read through it all again or miss something and have someone think I ignored all their suggestions ...
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
KHippolite wrote:
KHippolite wrote:So far it sounds like your villains are getting out-classed
Don't fear, give me another one or two chapters and you will realize he is bad, or is that good?
- janet reid
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
KHippolite wrote:
But if this guy is thinking long term knowing that women grow old and then intelligence and brains are somewhat important to keep the flame alive?
Sure, he can think this. But IMHO you're starting with Matthew in a state of near perfection. Where will he have room to grow in hte next twenty chapters? Also this kind of thinking is at odds with the edition of Matthew I think you intended to portray
Too much, too soon then. So basically at this moment I need to reduce him to basics. And basics only. And then as he and Catherine share ... lots of things ... only then he'll come around. So the next revision will see him only interested in the basic things and I'll have him switch to general concern when she almost starts to cry.
Does that sound about right?
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
KHippolite wrote:
He was actually thinking about 5 ways to "storm the castle", 3 of those ways did not involve the "front gate". But this sounds as if it's flawed in any case from what I'm reading ... are you saying men don't think mmm, I like her and I can think of 5 different ways of various undress to make her "happy"?
No... not the hard-assed brawny men who are uncomfortable liking women
So are you saying when hard-assed brawny guys likes a girl, they only think one way and one position and not much else? So the five different "positions" must go?
- janet reid
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
KHippolite wrote:
Not really. This is romance after all. They could never have seen each other before in their lives, and it is all sparks and desire and ooh-aah's.
I can accept the ooh's and aahs... no problem. But if he's lining her up on marriage type thinking on that first meet, I'm a little dubious that maybe he falls too fast and that the candle will burn out.
For example. I'm 20 years old. A girl I knew when we were 12 shows up injured. I'm thinking "wow, despite being a leader of men and despite feeling awkward about women, I really want her as a part of my life and seek her eternal happiness" you're thinking "there's a story hidden here that the reader didn't get to see"
But Matthew isn't awkward about women? Awkward how?
- janet reid
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
KHippolite wrote:
But Matthew isn't awkward about women? Awkward how?
Hrmm, well he was scared of intimacy or getting kissed or something. I'd have to go hunt for the passage
I've just checked your 789 review ...
If you do keep it, I recommend you give him a good solid reason to not drop a kiss on her right then (And bashful doesn't work, sorry. I did that with Ben and reviewers weren't buying it)
Is this the problem bit? So I've replied that I should probably make it obvious his relationship/respect for her father and her status (lady) are holding him back. But if she gives him the slightest indication, he'd be all over her for sure. Not sure if readers will like it if the hero forces kisses on the heroine before he is certain this is what she wants too ...
a) He doesn't want the servant to hear the bed thumping because they'll gossip
(Problem: It makes it very hard to keep them apart)
b) He's taken an oath that he can't get laid until he accoplishes some task
(Problem: Romance readers will be like ya right)
c) He has a hands-off rule to Catherine's late husband.
(This might work. Once Matthew finds out the details of that marriage it might let him off the hook, and he can have at it)
d) He has a sort-a gf or had one recently and thinks it's too soon
(This angle would make me suspicious he's a player, but I think you can pull it off)
None of these would work for the same reason as above ... but I think it's "fixable".
As to his "wary" senses - it's gone. It's too soon for him to realise his in trouble with her and he's about to fall in love ...
- amy s
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
OK, since we are analyzing M, I have something to throw into the throng. Why isn't M married? He is old enough he should have had a wife already. And children. Did his first wife die in childbirth? Because otherwise, I can't understand why there aren't any little M's running around.
As to the debate about M being a 'whole package' that doesn't evolve over the course of the book, I kinda agree. I would like to see M evolve during the book. Since you are having a trilogy planned, then the relationship needs to evolve (can't have the same people having the same relationship for two books) Maybe he is more impatient with her. Maybe grumpy. It makes a good story when you introduce conflict and everyone isn't reasonable all the time.
BTW, LOVE the titles for the 2nd and 3rd book.
- janet reid
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
amy s wrote:
OK, since we are analyzing M, I have something to throw into the throng. Why isn't M married? He is old enough he should have had a wife already. And children. Did his first wife die in childbirth? Because otherwise, I can't understand why there aren't any little M's running around.
As to the debate about M being a 'whole package' that doesn't evolve over the course of the book, I kinda agree. I would like to see M evolve during the book. Since you are having a trilogy planned, then the relationship needs to evolve (can't have the same people having the same relationship for two books) Maybe he is more impatient with her. Maybe grumpy. It makes a good story when you introduce conflict and everyone isn't reasonable all the time.
BTW, LOVE the titles for the 2nd and 3rd book.
True. And I'm going to have to sort this out rather sooner than later.
What I'm going for at the moment is, he wasn't supposed to be earl as he was the second son and is still sorting out getting in control of all the added responsibilities and getting married wasn't high up on the list of things to take care of first. This might still trip me up as 2nd sons would also be married younger, and for that reason I will be painting him as pretty carefree almost irresponsible growing up, therefore also not thinking about wives and children. All this will be revealed within the next few chapters (the first chapter is full ) and then developed further as he and C grow closer. The age I have is not too far off for him not to be married, but I need to check that again before I sound too certain of it.
This also depends on how many holes you and others shoot into my reasoning. I'll get back to you on the ages for marriage during this time. I'm also very open to suggestions from everyone on this one!
- amy s
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
M doesn't strike me as a younger child. Anthony does. M has been set up as the disciplinarian. The one who pays his debts to those who nurtured him. The one who follows his head rather than his heart. (Quite similar to Catherine, BTW.) I would expect him to be contained. Controlled. Lust is something that he understands since he has been 'trained' by various serving wenches and an occasional dalliance with a woman in town (maybe a rich widow who lives in town but is below his station.)
If his first marriage was loveless, he would think of the nobility as someone to marry and bear his children, rather than someone to love. (maybe equating lust as the same thing) He would be very loyal to his mistresses, even if they weren't active in his life. Then C comes along and turns everything upside down. She is nobility AND a love interest. A dangerous and new combination. C's barren history would also play into the mix. He has no children and she can't give him any. That means that a dalliance would be for only sex, since their union can't produce an heir. An affair isn't something he would think of right away.
He knows what he wants and what he likes. She is all of those things. However, her status as a peer makes her VERY dangerous. If scorned, she can ruin his reputation as well as his prospects for a viable wife. (not that he expects that, but it could still happen) The fact that he used to protect her (a bond he promised to both his and her father) is another residual from their past, and a promise he still needs to keep. (especially since the death of C's father in a raid where M failed to protect his mentor)
As to the previous marriage thing, I can't see him NOT having been married. It's just that she died in childbirth and he hasn't found another woman yet. He has to be around 25 to 30 years old. In this world, he has to produce an heir before he dies. (What was the life expectancy of someone who is skilled in battle? How old did people live in that time? I can't see it being older than 50 or so. If he wants to live to see his son grown and married, stable, and ensconced in his station, then M needs to get busy. His internal clock is ticking.
And the barren thing has to be something he considers instead of just C.
Have I helped you get in M's brain? Hope so!
A
- njc
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
Matthew may have been pre-occupied by taking over his position, especially if the circumstances of his father's death were drawn-out or troubling. He might also have been tied up with fighting and family politics.
- janet reid
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
amy wrote:
M doesn't strike me as a younger child. Anthony does. M has been set up as the disciplinarian. The one who pays his debts to those who nurtured him. The one who follows his head rather than his heart. (Quite similar to Catherine, BTW.) I would expect him to be contained. Controlled. Lust is something that he understands since he has been 'trained' by various serving wenches and an occasional dalliance with a woman in town (maybe a rich widow who lives in town but is below his station.
If his first marriage was loveless, he would think of the nobility as someone to marry and bear his children, rather than someone to love. (maybe equating lust as the same thing) He would be very loyal to his mistresses, even if they weren't active in his life. Then C comes along and turns everything upside down. She is nobility AND a love interest. A dangerous and new combination. C's barren history would also play into the mix. He has no children and she can't give him any. That means that a dalliance would be for only sex, since their union can't produce an heir. An affair isn't something he would think of right away.
He knows what he wants and what he likes. She is all of those things. However, her status as a peer makes her VERY dangerous. If scorned, she can ruin his reputation as well as his prospects for a viable wife. (not that he expects that, but it could still happen) The fact that he used to protect her (a bond he promised to both his and her father) is another residual from their past, and a promise he still needs to keep. (especially since the death of C's father in a raid where M failed to protect his mentor)
As to the previous marriage thing, I can't see him NOT having been married. It's just that she died in childbirth and he hasn't found another woman yet. He has to be around 25 to 30 years old. In this world, he has to produce an heir before he dies. (What was the life expectancy of someone who is skilled in battle? How old did people live in that time? I can't see it being older than 50 or so. If he wants to live to see his son grown and married, stable, and ensconced in his station, then M needs to get busy. His internal clock is ticking.
And the barren thing has to be something he considers instead of just C.
Have I helped you get in M's brain? Hope so!
A
What you've described is what I had in mind for his sexual background, so it's good to know that is agreed! And yes, I need to make him more in control and disciplined, yet totally in lust. *thinks about writing about a wizard ... shakes head, nope, romance it will be! LOL*
Matthew having a wife that died during childbirth: too similar to Catherine, Catherine's father and Black J IMO. It was common enough, but it might be a bit too much to add Matthew too?
Catherine will give him the reason for jumping in bed with her and have lots of sex with no strings attached - he won't mind though and will not resist too much when she asks nicely. At some point, yes, he will consider her not being able to give him children only when he starts wanting her as perfect wife in all respects, but it's too early now (I agree with K, it's physical for M at the moment, to some extent for C too).
As to not being married, another contributing factor would be a lack of suitable ladies to consider on the border. Nobility was relatively scarce in the region, nobility at his level, was really really scarce. So he probably would have to go to London to find a wife. And he hadn't had time yet. Added njc's comment that he's been busy to become the man his father and brother would have been ... I think it's unlikely, but plausible that he hasn't been/isn't married? I could also bring in a mistress that he only let go recently ... And also, the plan is to have M remark at some point that with all the shit sorted (Anthony and the bad guy), he should probably start looking for a wife. It will be a major crisis between him and C after all, especially since he can't marry her because she's barren. So yes, both will be very aware of this at some point.
From my source: As to old-age, if you survived to 12, for men, you could live to 70 (some references show March Wardens as old as 80 still in office), for women, depended on childbirth. Plagues, war and accidents sometimes interfered. Men and women came to age at 21. Non-nobles married at 25-26 (men) and 22 (women), nobles sooner but not necessarily. I might need to shave a few years from M's current 31 though. Shouldn't be a biggy.
And you always help, more than you realise!
- janet reid
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
njc wrote:
Matthew may have been pre-occupied by taking over his position, especially if the circumstances of his father's death were drawn-out or troubling. He might also have been tied up with fighting and family politics.
This is Matthew's weakness - he might come across as arrogant and sure, but deep down he really questions whether he is worthy to fill his father's and brother's shoes. Given that he never took note of his father's lessons/education given that his brother would have been the earl, and M having a great carefree life until his father/brother died unexpectedly ... it would take him a few years to adjust and become the man he is? So this would totally work, I think.
- janet reid
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
KHippolite wrote:
Lust is something that he understands since he has been 'trained' by various serving wenches
Except, we're told he's uncomfortable with lust. He describes it as unnerving territory. The serving wenches, apparently, have not led him to self-discovery. Perhaps they were influenced by potential gain?
Except, except, I will change this and he will be a bit more (lots but not too much) sure of himself. I just don't want him to be an arrogant ass-wipe.
- janet reid
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
KHippolite wrote:
njc wrote:Matthew may have been pre-occupied by taking over his position, especially if the circumstances of his father's death were drawn-out or troubling. He might also have been tied up with fighting and family politics.
I can accept this career-driven version of him, or the rebellious caring version of him... but if it's going to be a mix of the two, I'm looking for an explanation to help me mentally resolve it
People grow up, and he would have grown up real quick after his father/brother died. But it's not to say he's 100% sure he's doing a stellar job. Catherine will help him here. I think a lot will be revealed over the next chapters, as a few things are going to happen that will bring this to the fore for Matthew (ie when the villain starts to wipe the floor with M so to speak). Hearing this should make K very happy.
298 2015-08-25 04:42:41 (edited by njc 2015-08-25 04:45:07)
- njc
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
It could also be that a few 'suitable' women have been pushed at him and he's recoiled from their empty heads and hearts, and the experience has pushed him away from the whole business. Catherine is not in their class, nor they in hers. That could lead to him becoming more controlled.
Catherine's willingness to stand by her worthless brother might just make Matthew's fire burn all the hotter; this is virtue as he can appreciate it..
- janet reid
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
janet reid wrote:
KHippolite wrote:Lust is something that he understands since he has been 'trained' by various serving wenches
Except, we're told he's uncomfortable with lust. He describes it as unnerving territory. The serving wenches, apparently, have not led him to self-discovery. Perhaps they were influenced by potential gain?
Except, except, I will change this and he will be a bit more (lots but not too much) sure of himself. I just don't want him to be an arrogant ass-wipe.
And his also uncomfortable because Catherine is too different/special otherwise Matthew must display zero people skills and or intelligence. To make this work, I probably need to bring his unwillingness to marry just to marry in sooner. Next deaft!
- janet reid
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Re: Northern Skies - Janet!
njc wrote:
It could also be that a few 'suitable' women have been pushed at him and he's recoiled from their empty heads and hearts, and the experience has pushed him away from the whole business. Catherine is not in their class, nor they in hers. That could lead to him becoming more controlled.
Catherine's willingness to stand by her worthless brother might just make Matthew's fire burn all the hotter; this is virtue as he can appreciate it..
This is really good! I mean, if he thinks women only like him and sleep with him because of his money and title, it would make him really cynical towards women and this whole marriage thing. This might work ... Thanks for all you inputs njc!
