476 (edited by njc 2015-05-30 22:38:29)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Okay, here's the current circuit work--a version of W. Marshall Leach's two-sided common-base head amp.  Two needed, one each for left and right channel:

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u394/njGreybeard/Schematic_zpsi5iig6ie.png

The parts that carry DC and that involve bias setting the operation point are in blue.  The red parts carry only signal.

Neither end of the battery is referenced to ground.  The two amplifier transistors (stacked at left) have their bases referenced to AC ground through capacitors.  Much smaller capacitors serve as high-frequency (radio-frequency noise) bypasses between the input on the emitters of the transistors and the transistor bases.

The transistor alone near the center is in a voltage-regulating circuit.  Unfortunately, so simple a circuit working by itself can't hold the voltage stable enough against supply variations (as the battery runs down) so a second trick works against it.  It tries to hold a steady voltage between its two ends; each end draws from the adjacent supply rail through an 820K resistor and feeds the amplifying transistor base through a 750K resistor ... but the 750K resistor forms one side of a voltage divider.  The other side is 10x larger, 7.5M, to the opposite supply rail.  The 10% pull from the opposite rail opposes the imperfect regulation, improving the control several times over, keeping the collector current in the resistors within about 0.6% of its center value.  The highest collector current occurs with the battery a little more than half depleted, so the low-current extremes are at new-battery and exhausted-battery.

I haven't plotted the curve, but here are the test values: 7.99 volts, 97.8 microamps; 7.60, 99.0; 7.18, 100.6; 6.78, 101.8; 6.41, 102.7; 5.98, 103.3; 5.59, 103.2; 5.19, 102.7; 4.80, 101.2; 4.41, 98.5 .  You'll notice that although it's a 9v battery (9.6v when absolutely new) I start at 8.0 volts.  That's because I'm supplying the amplifier through a pilot-light LED, which produces a small but visible glow even at fifty microamperes, while dropping only 1.6 volts.  (At its rated 20 mA, it's very bright, but a small dot that doesn't actually illuminate much.)

You'll notice that the currents are lower than the 120 uA to 150 uA I need for 20x amplification.  I have to drop the 820k, 750k, and 7M5 resistors by about 30%, and I might need to drop the 3M0 and 13M resistors on the regulating transistor to keep the curve centered.

Since the curve changes direction, it must represent a function of at least second-order (quadratic).  I suspect it's something close to a cosh (hyberbolic cosine), but I'm not going to try to combine three Ebers-Moll models with the network algebra.  My algebra muscles aren't flaccid, but they're not ripped either, and it would take me several days to get it right.  (This is something you do in full-sized notebooks, not half-sized.)

I've had to layer this on top of the work I'm doing, so I have a very messy workbench, especially with several varied copies of the design:

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u394/njGreybeard/circuit-bench-1_zpsau7bvl5z.png

I'm re-using the battery supply I built to replace-if-necessary my UL-listed lab supplies, but I clipped in two extra batteries so I could go up near 9v if I need to:

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u394/njGreybeard/power-supply_zpsx6dzlcyy.png

I can't use the lab supplies for this because the supplies AND the scope are referenced to ground, and this amplifier needs a floating supply.  If I'm going to keep using this, I'll change the voltage control to a coarse/fine dual-shaft arrangement and maybe make it possible to switch batteries in and out.  And maybe build a couple more.  It's a cute design.

Here's the amplifier on a breadboard.  I'm afraid I've just blown up a part of one of the big photos:

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u394/njGreybeard/circuit-prototype_zpsznhrfzpu.png

The layout isn't quite what it will be in the final package because of the limitations of the breadboard.  If you look very carefully on the left, you can see the regulating transistor behind its resistors in a kind of outrigger.

Here are the current and supply voltage readings.  The front meter has current in microamps; the rear meter shows the supply voltage.

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u394/njGreybeard/meters-higher-readings_zpsicxhac8t.png

I promised, in my previous article, to tell you what this mysterious mixer-motor part is:

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u394/njGreybeard/mixer-2_zpsbu1bjltc.png

That white loopy thing on the end of the shaft is ... wait for it ... a flyball governor!  The center opposite the shaft attachment presses against contacts that supply current to the field windings.  The inner spring pulls the weights in; rotation pushes them out.  The contacts are arranged so that as the weights move out the contact resistance decreases and more current flows into the field windings.  It's a pecularity of this armature-field arrangement that the more current you put through the field windings, the lower the motor's speed/load curve and the more slowly it wll turn under a given load.  (A little like running in lower gear.)

Here's the scope showing the amplification.  Input signal above, output below.  Note that the input is on a scale 10x as sensitive as the output.  You can see the peak-to-peak voltage readings in the right-hand column.

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u394/njGreybeard/Scope-trace-closeup_zpsosllthar.png

These signals are ten to twenty times what the real signals will be.  Because so little of this is shielded, traces of signals at those levels are very, very noisy, and if I run it off a 9v battery and pick the battery up the noise overwhelms the output signal.

The amplification and phase relationships are nice and flat from a little under 20Hz to about 33 kHz.  Leach has a very nice design.  My big concern is how much extra noise my voltage regulation introduces.

477 (edited by njc 2015-05-30 22:04:26)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Amy, I missed a point in your Cop Shop story.  Since it's probably too late, I'll just belabor it here.

At one point, you had Katerin suffering from bladder distress as well as breathing problems from her contortions.  When prodded, you dropped the bladder issue and worked, nicely, with the breathing.  When Kat unfolded, she executed a flying leap with less than her usual precision.

Instead of a squeezed bladder, you could have given her stiff and strained muscles, so that when her leap misfired we-the-reader would have said (if asked), "Gee, Kat should  have expected it ... and so should we."

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

NJC, I recognize a 9-volt Energizer battery in your pictures. If I put that on my tongue it hurts. Besides that, is there anything else I need to know for tomorrow's exam? :-)

Dirk

479 (edited by njc 2015-05-31 03:18:47)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Norm d'Plume wrote:

NJC, I recognize a 9-volt Energizer battery in your pictures. If I put that on my tongue it hurts. Besides that, is there anything else I need to know for tomorrow's exam? :-)

Dirk

Ontology recapitulates phylonogy.
Every finite dimensional inner product space has an orthonormal basis.
The divergence of the curl is a zero field.
And ... the proper uses of commas and semicolons.

Clearly, KH is fixated on pain.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

njc wrote:

Ontology recapitulates phylonogy.
Every finite dimensional inner product field has an orthonormal basis.
The divergence of the curl is a zero field.
And ... the proper uses of commas and semicolons.

I plugged those four sentences into Google for the hell of it. I got porn.

481

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

You can get porn for anything.  But porn with an orthonormal basis?  Does that lie within the osculating circle?

482

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Norm, you're part of the family. Forever.

Haven't laughed that hard in too long. If K writes something snarky, then he's just jealous that you said it first.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Okay, fess up. You both googled it, didn't you?

484

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Nope.  I'm a little busy for porn, what with all my educational writing here.

BTW, osculating circle is a very well-defined term from mathematics.

485 (edited by njc 2015-05-31 05:47:01)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I forget now which of the great 20th century comics it was who declared so eloquently this principle: A comic is not someone who says funny things. A comic is someone who says things funny.

Those who remember the original days of Live From New York, It's SATURDAY NIGHT! may recall the continuing adventures of Mr. Bill.  I'll bet that K's favorite character was (or would be) Mr. Hands, whose transparently sacharine voice belied the mayhem he wrought upon Mr. Bill Modelling Clay.

I'm afraid I got the joke, but not the humor, not only of this but of most of SNL.  And once in the 80's I was on a company training trip whose organizers had hired, at great expense, the Second City Players for an after-dinner entertainment.  Their first three skits told the same joke, once each.  It wasn't funny the first time, it was less funny the second, and the third time I committed an unspeakable cruelty on my colleagues by walking out and leaving them to bear it without me.

Compare that to the great Jack Benny:

{Mugger} Your money or your life, mister.
{Benny}    ...
{Mugger} Well?
{Benny -- glances at the audience} ...
{Mugger} Which is it gonna be?
{Benny -- laconically}  Don't rush me!  I'm thinking about it.

486

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Well, I changed the resistor ratio on the regulating transistor to 10M//1.8M .  That puts the current where I want it and gets me a gain of 20.  The current regulation isn't so good.  Over the full range, it's 9uA off center, but over the 5.6v to 8v range it's about four times better, and that's the most important part.  If the gain tails off as the battery is in its last few hundred hours, I'll live with it.

Now I have to build a pair on a real circuit board and seal it an aluminum box with the batteries, and then risk my cartridge and phono inputs on it.

487

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I think there are two kinds of funny bones. Ex- those who get Seinfeld and those who don't. I am one of those who don't.

And no, I didn't google. I was laughing too hard.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Norm d'Plume wrote:

Okay, fess up. You both googled it, didn't you?

I googled it. Purely for research purposes of course. *rubs sulphuric acid into eyes* I wish I got porn.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Norm d'Plume wrote:

NJC, I recognize a 9-volt Energizer battery in your pictures. If I put that on my tongue it hurts. Besides that, is there anything else I need to know for tomorrow's exam? :-)

Dirk

Surely you recognised a pen here and there too?

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

njc wrote:

Okay, here's the current circuit work--a version of W. Marshall Leach's two-sided common-base head amp.  Two needed, one each for left and right channel:

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u394/njGreybeard/Schematic_zpsi5iig6ie.png

The parts that carry DC and that involve bias setting the operation point are in blue.  The red parts carry only signal.

Neither end of the battery is referenced to ground.  The two amplifier transistors (stacked at left) have their bases referenced to AC ground through capacitors.  Much smaller capacitors serve as high-frequency (radio-frequency noise) bypasses between the input on the emitters of the transistors and the transistor bases.

The transistor alone near the center is in a voltage-regulating circuit.  Unfortunately, so simple a circuit working by itself can't hold the voltage stable enough against supply variations (as the battery runs down) so a second trick works against it.  It tries to hold a steady voltage between its two ends; each end draws from the adjacent supply rail through an 820K resistor and feeds the amplifying transistor base through a 750K resistor ... but the 750K resistor forms one side of a voltage divider.  The other side is 10x larger, 7.5M, to the opposite supply rail.  The 10% pull from the opposite rail opposes the imperfect regulation, improving the control several times over, keeping the collector current in the resistors within about 0.6% of its center value.  The highest collector current occurs with the battery a little more than half depleted, so the low-current extremes are at new-battery and exhausted-battery.

I haven't plotted the curve, but here are the test values: 7.99 volts, 97.8 microamps; 7.60, 99.0; 7.18, 100.6; 6.78, 101.8; 6.41, 102.7; 5.98, 103.3; 5.59, 103.2; 5.19, 102.7; 4.80, 101.2; 4.41, 98.5 .  You'll notice that although it's a 9v battery (9.6v when absolutely new) I start at 8.0 volts.  That's because I'm supplying the amplifier through a pilot-light LED, which produces a small but visible glow even at fifty microamperes, while dropping only 1.6 volts.  (At its rated 20 mA, it's very bright, but a small dot that doesn't actually illuminate much.)

You'll notice that the currents are lower than the 120 uA to 150 uA I need for 20x amplification.  I have to drop the 820k, 750k, and 7M5 resistors by about 30%, and I might need to drop the 3M0 and 13M resistors on the regulating transistor to keep the curve centered.

Since the curve changes direction, it must represent a function of at least second-order (quadratic).  I suspect it's something close to a cosh (hyberbolic cosine), but I'm not going to try to combine three Ebers-Moll models with the network algebra.  My algebra muscles aren't flaccid, but they're not ripped either, and it would take me several days to get it right.  (This is something you do in full-sized notebooks, not half-sized.)

I've had to layer this on top of the work I'm doing, so I have a very messy workbench.

The layout isn't quite what it will be in the final package because of the limitations of the breadboard.  If you look very carefully on the left, you can see the regulating transistor behind its resistors in a kind of outrigger.

The amplification and phase relationships are nice and flat from a little under 20Hz to about 33 kHz.  Leach has a very nice design.  My big concern is how much extra noise my voltage regulation introduces.

I had to re-read it a couple of times (and I didn't read much of the grounding stuff - all I know, and want to know, is that I never want to be the easiest path for current to find earth ever), but I think I now understand most of it. I must admit, I have an advantage over most of you ... AC/DC (the rock band that made AC and DC famous) is from Aus. smile

Thanks for the sketch - and yeah, your bench looks even busier but I have to admit I didn't think it was possible, so I will never doubt your ability ever again njc!

So here comes the dumb questions that may or may not also expose my tendency to go the path of least resistance that may or may not indicate that I'm really lazy sometimes.

Why do you have to use batteries i.e. can't connect to a power outlet? That way you don't have to account for different voltages. And is there any specific reason why you're building one from scratch? I'm guessing it's because you can't buy already built head amps anymore. Not sure if it has ever been a stock standard item that could've been bought.

I grew up with vinyls and turntables, my dad used to have one. But when I left home, CDs were already in play and I never owned one, so I know very little about them. And yes, I'm using ignorant as a valid excuse! smile

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

amy s wrote:

I think there are two kinds of funny bones. Ex- those who get Seinfeld and those who don't. I am one of those who don't.

And no, I didn't google. I was laughing too hard.

I could never get into Seinfeld. Ditto for Everybody Loves Raymond. However, for years I thought Married With Children was too crude. I'd watch a few minutes here and there while channel surfing. Eventually, I watched whole episodes and soon thought it was a riot. I've since seen every episode.

492 (edited by njc 2015-05-31 22:59:57)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

janet reid wrote:
njc wrote:

... Neither end of the battery is referenced to ground.  The two amplifier transistors (stacked at left) have their bases referenced to AC ground through capacitors.  ...

So here comes the dumb questions ... .

Why do you have to use batteries i.e. can't connect to a power outlet? That way you don't have to account for different voltages. And is there any specific reason why you're building one from scratch? I'm guessing it's because you can't buy already built head amps anymore. Not sure if it has ever been a stock standard item that could've been bought.

I grew up with vinyls and turntables, my dad used to have one. But when I left home, CDs were already in play and I never owned one, so I know very little about them. And yes, I'm using ignorant as a valid excuse! smile

Not dumb.  Just not attentive enough smile

Ignorance of vinyl isn't the issue.  The key point is in the box above.  The two sides of the voltage source that powers the thing float.  Neither is fixed with respect to ground.

This means that the left and right channels need separate power supplies.  Can this be done off the AC mains?  Sure, using transformers.  And as Leach explains, someone built and sold a version powered by photovoltaic cells illuminated inside the box by an incandescent light.

But you need two separate supplies and you have the additional problem of keeping the 60Hz hum out of the amplifier and also keeping external rf noise from creeping in.  It can be done, but it's more engineering, and mmore time.  And there's something audiophile-appealing about a circuit so exotic it -must- be powered by batteries.  Even the little regulating stuff I added will raise the noise floor a bit.

Not too much, I hope.  I'm building one channel on the final board now.  I also have more physical design work (and 30 minutes or so with a cutoff wheel, and more time with a drill and taps ...) before I can close the box up and try it for real.

I can't work this fast.

493

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Norm. I'm on the same page. Never understood Raymond either.  Just a lot of characters I don't like running around and talking to each other.

494

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Don't worry about 'owing' me stuff.  I'm glad for your help, but also honored that you think so highly of my kibbitzing.

495

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Oh, and if you're thinking about more side-stuff for Kat, I'd suggest instead finishing out Mantle and adding prequels for Anver (what happened to his eyebrows!) and Katerin.

496

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

First I have to finish Dictates. Then a rewrite of Mandates. All the while adding in a slow chapter here and there of Mantle. Don't tell him, but I'm starting to miss Kha a bit. He was too ornery for my taste and I let myself get sidetracked :-)  THEN I'll have distance and will be able to do a viscious rewrite of Acts. That will get it to a state I'll consider (possibly) ready to publish.

I just need a month of uninterrupted computer time and I could do all of that. Bit too much to ask, but I know I could make that deadline. Eh, I need to sleep too. Maybe two months...

497 (edited by njc 2015-06-06 12:48:36)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Vicious!  Acts is very, very good now and you're going to have to work hard to avoid marring it as you seek to improve.

498

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Consider it my gift. FYI, I'm doing the prelim judging for the cop shop contest. It's like a rewrite in that I'm seeing what I like in the work of others. Hoping to finish tonight or tomorrow and the it'll be recip time!

499

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Don't worry too much about Acts, New Jersey. I'm putting the puzzle together and seeing what I've missed + what needs revision.

500

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Will think of a few other uses for the cloth to mess w your people:-)