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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Both, I think.  There isn't really a plan, which is why I keep being surprised when I come up with a new story.  Somewhere, I'll need to talk about my opinions about the MMR vaccine issue.  That'll be fun.

A

302

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I screwed up and edited something above that I meant to quote, about the data ballons.

303

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Oh, don't lead with opinions.  Lead with facts.  The original paper was a fraud, the journal retracted it, the authors were prosecuted, they were trying to sell their own vaccine without thimeresol, and the increase in autism diagnoses are matched by a decrease in diagnoses of mental retardation.

Then you can say what you think of the con artists--but don't insult the marks.  You're trying to gain their confidence, remember?

304

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Copy that :-)

I'm on the same page, brother.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

njc wrote:
janet reid wrote:

I like njc's cartoons.  Somehow, there's a cartoon he can use for every situation he needs a cartoon for too!

Not mine, no!

I should've said the links njc supplies us to the cartoons!  LOL, you first have to fix Evalene (probably spelled wrong) and the off-hook gadget before you can go drawing cartoons!  Speaking of which, how is the gadget thingy going lately?

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

njc wrote:

Our schools protect the aggressor and punish the defender, teaching kids that they need Authority for protection.

This is exactly the reason why my kids have my permission to sort repeated offenders out (and the principal knows this because I had the pleasure to inform him in person once).  The school system over here is also lacking in any common sense.

I hate bullies and people that pick on those "weaker" or "smaller" than them.  But you may have noticed this already?!  LOL

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

amy s wrote:

I'm not sure where I'm going with these short stories.  It seems that I'm trying to teach other parents as well as celebrate my son.  He doesn't have the words, so I'm his translator.  We'll see how it pans out.

You're also giving people who have limited exposure to Autism some wonderful insight!  And you're doing it so nicely, they won't be offended in the least!

308

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Hope not.  So far, I'm still thinking of ideas and have at least two more shorts that might see the light of day.

A

309

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Working on Erevain now.  Have some household stuff to work on.  Desperately need to work on the voltage level detector.  Haven't had much time lately.

310

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I know, free time is at a premium for me as well.  Let me know as soon as Erevain gets posted and I'll steal some time.  Looking forward to the read!

A

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Another Collin short is up on the site.  This one is called 'A Sensory Mind'.  I'm gonna run out of ideas pretty soon, but until then, I'm writing!

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

No abuse.  I wouldn't come back for it.  It's a pleasure and an honor to contribute..

Erevain will come out in probably 3 parts, maybe two.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Hey, folks.  I put up a new short story about my son.  'When did I know? Part 1'.  Anybody who wishes can have at it.  I've already done the first revision, so I think it's up to your snuff.  We'll see!

A

314

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

OK, here we go.  I read a great first chapter from a reviewer outside our group.  He had structural issues, but the content was tippy-top.  Since I learn from the work of others, I started thinking of how to apply this to Acts.  For those of you who have read the first three chapters of that book, what do you think of this as a start? 

Tribute to K.  He's the one who is great at pointing out that my book meanders.  Tribute to NJC, the purist who doesn't want me to change anything.  Could I get you guys to weigh in?

Chapter 1: This begins in the curses ward.  Anver, Tilly and another lieutenant are introduced.  The entire school is there.  Kha is on his deathbed and clearly cursed.  The risk is discussed.  The students chain their reserves and heal the Master. 

Chapter 2: This occurs about a year later.  Anver is on night watch at the gate.  Katerin is introduced as they switch shifts.  She points out that he is late and they argue a bit.  He notices that she has a bruise on her face and offers to help.  She refuses and stomps away.  While on duty, Anver notices an explosion of a staff and realizes a student has been killed.  He also feels the double explosion but doesn't question this because he's never felt a mage die before.  He ties into the draining reserve and finds the body.  Because his Master is infirm, he goes to Alina's school to report the death.  Alina is established as a villain and tells him to handle it himself.

Chapter 3: The next day.  Kha gets out of the infirmary, weak and still infirm.  The Common Room is introduced.  The other lieutenants have their discussion about their origins and how they gained power.  Anver participates and then takes tray in to Master Kha, intending to report the student's death and ask for advice.  Meanwhile, Kha has left the school and is traveling to Aerie.  Anver realizes that he is alone and has to keep the school running without support or help.  And since no one cares, he has to figure out what happened to the dead student.

This introduces the endangered love interest, as well as letting people know that there is a murderer who is killing mages (and that this should be a mystery story).  Alina is part of the plot at chapter 2.  I start the action during the healing (previous chapter 1 is eliminated) instead of discussing how to go about it.

Thoughts?  Anybody? 

A

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I'm thinking.  That was the timeline that I had in my head, is all.  I need time to pass after the Earthwound.  Airen needs to go to Aerie.  Melody needs to be healed and join a caravan that loops South and then comes back to the main city.  Tazar needs to be alone and unsupported, which leads to him losing it at the Games and blindsiding Slash. 

That said, I think you're saying that I should have Kha healed a week before Anver takes night watch at the Academy.  This way, Kha spent a year and a half cursed and travels out of this book as soon as he can get out of bed.

OK.  It works.  *POOF*  (for now at least)

A

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

For some weird reason I can't get in to see the chapters on Acts any more!  Every other book in my reading list is fine--it's just yours. You didn't take it down, did you?

317 (edited by njc 2015-03-10 20:16:47)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

amy s wrote:

OK, here we go.  I read a great first chapter from a reviewer outside our group.  He had structural issues, but the content was tippy-top.  Since I learn from the work of others, I started thinking of how to apply this to Acts.  For those of you who have read the first three chapters of that book, what do you think of this as a start? 

Tribute to K.  He's the one who is great at pointing out that my book meanders.  Tribute to NJC, the purist who doesn't want me to change anything.  Could I get you guys to weigh in?

Chapter 1: This begins in the curses ward.  Anver, Tilly and another lieutenant are introduced.  The entire school is there.  Kha is on his deathbed and clearly cursed.  The risk is discussed.  The students chain their reserves and heal the Master.

Always modern writers want you to start in media res--in the middle of things.  And for a story where adventure carries the story, that makes sense.  But this isn't that kind of story.

First of all, you have a world to introduce.  Secondly, you have an ensemble that is, in the first volume, at least as important as Master Kha and maybe more so. Your current first chapters introduce the ensemble and the world quite well.

Heinlein started in media res with (if I'm not confusing stories) Starship Troopers, but that story was, in the end, about the relationship of individual and society, and the incident quickly turned in that direction.  That's not your story.

Moreover, it would not be proper, in the story logic and the logic of the characters, to pull all the students in with Master Kha and discuss the risk there.  The scenes you have fit the logic of story, situation, and characters.  You don't need to spike those with amphetamines.  Anyone who will like your story on the macro level will be drawn into those those chapters.

The chapters you need to fix are the adventure inside the containment vessel.  You need to let us see what's happening in the dark, and make it more sharply memorable.  I'm not sure whether the solution will involve shortening or lengthening the episode, or neither.

Chapter 2: This occurs about a year later.  Anver is on night watch at the gate.  Katerin is introduced as they switch shifts.  She points out that he is late and they argue a bit.  He notices that she has a bruise on her face and offers to help.  She refuses and stomps away.  While on duty, Anver notices an explosion of a staff and realizes a student has been killed.  He also feels the double explosion but doesn't question this because he's never felt a mage die before.  He ties into the draining reserve and finds the body.  Because his Master is infirm, he goes to Alina's school to report the death.  Alina is established as a villain and tells him to handle it himself.

If you dive right into Alina, you have two story threads that you'll have to connect later, with no common starting point.

Is it important here to have the death by blown staff?

Now, I think you could make part about Alina poaching Kha's manpower more memorable.  Perhaps Alina could suggest that Kha's school is a school of menials, fit for the work of 'tradesmen'.  Perhaps you could sharpen the parts about Alina having the goods on everybody, and even threatening to spill some secrets of Kha's lieutenants.

And perhaps that needs to be woven in a little bit with Katerin and how Anver is trying not to be in love with her because she is Alina's lieutenant.  Heck, you could let Katerin be a brief distraction in an earlier chapter.

Chapter 3: The next day.  Kha gets out of the infirmary, weak and still infirm.  The Common Room is introduced.  The other lieutenants have their discussion about their origins and how they gained power.  Anver participates and then takes tray in to Master Kha, intending to report the student's death and ask for advice.  Meanwhile, Kha has left the school and is traveling to Aerie.  Anver realizes that he is alone and has to keep the school running without support or help.  And since no one cares, he has to figure out what happened to the dead student.

Rather than bring another thread in--unless there is an organic reason for it--I think you should find a way to play up the existing elements: Earthwound and the Black Staff.

Or else throw them out entirely.  But I think they are too central to your story.

Right now, Alina is more likely to kill someone than one of the necromancers--until that containment vessel is opened.  Earthwound and the violation of the containment vessels would seem to be precipitating events.  I'd prefer linking the containment vessel somehow to the Black Staff and Earthwound, at least thematically.  If you can arrange things somehow that the reader catches on before the characters, so much the better.

This introduces the endangered love interest, as well as letting people know that there is a murderer who is killing mages (and that this should be a mystery story).  Alina is part of the plot at chapter 2.  I start the action during the healing (previous chapter 1 is eliminated) instead of discussing how to go about it.
A

Do you want Alina or not?  She's a brilliant precipitating event, providing vital information and letting Anver be a hero early.  The duel with her also carries some important clues.

Now ... knowing your skill, I've no doubt that you could tell the story quite well as you've just outlined, but you'll have a lot of patching to do along the lines I've written above.

If you do want to play Strongest Start, start with the utterance of Su Cinibrae (and I'm pretty sure I've got the spelling wrong).  But then Anver's first utterance will be ruthless, and you'll have to work to convince the reader that Anver isn't really like that.

Chapters 1 and 2 are not problems.  The containment jar chapters are, perhaps because the action and the story arc tend to obscure each other.

318 (edited by njc 2015-03-10 21:49:31)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Maybe Alina -wants- Anver to fall in love with Katerin so she can use him?  Major Backfire here.  Or maybe that's too studied a plot for Her Haughtiness.  Maybe Katerin doesn't learn of Alina's plotting until after she's hooked?

Edit--  Or more likely, Alina didn't plan for the attachment to happen, but hopes to make use of it--a plan that backfires quickly.

Or Alina wants the attachment, which would horrify Katerin if she knew--and then it backfires, and Alina doesn't want it as soon as Katerin does.

319 (edited by njc 2015-03-10 21:45:26)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I've been listening to an audio course on Beethoven's symphonies.  Beethoven was the composer of structure.  You listen and listen and listen, and discover that everything you've been hearing comes from some transformation or complementarity off of the tiny melodic fragments with which Beethoven began the work.

The lecturer feels that the greatest work ever written for solo piano is Beethoven's Diabelli Variations, in which this process of variation, transmorgrification, and rejiggerication is itself varied, transmorgrified, transmuted, and rejiggered as we watch.

That's how I encourage you to approach this question.

320 (edited by njc 2015-03-10 21:56:42)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

KHippolite wrote:

Rather than bring another thread in--unless there is an organic reason for it--I think you should find a way to play up the existing elements: Earthwound and the Black Staff.

Here we differ too. The Earthwound story thread and the Black Staff story thread don't seem to be thematic to this story. In fact, they are not resolved in the slightest in the version I read. If you don't plan to resolve them in the rewrite, I'd recommend not making a huge fuss about them... if the story ends with 5/8 of the major threads dangling, you'll succeed in frustrating me. Like in Game of Thrones, I'll just wait for the last book to come out so I can read it and find out who to like, then go back and read the series.

Go that with aSoIaF and you'll -never- follow the story.  The ensemble turns over at least three times.

If Earthwound and Black Staff aren't important enough now, make them important.  Just don't tell us how important.  Don't say 'they're not important enough' and add something else.

I've got a plot connection set up  in my first two chapters.  Kudos if you guess it, but I don't plan to let it out for a couple of volumes, at least.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I think the main overarching problem is that the real problem of the book isn't even introduced until after Alina's death. I could deal with the whole roof fixing and the Alina problem if I knew from the start of this book that the REAL issue is that there is a necromancer that is still alive somewhere, and everyone is in danger because of that. That danger needs to be introduced right away. Find some way to tie that into why the roof must be fixed, the chamber found, etc. and I think it will be much stronger.
(The healing of Kha belongs as a flashback in this book, perhaps as late as the reintroduction of Kha.)

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I owe you guys for debating this. I'm letting Acts sit in the back of my brain until I get the revision in my head. Just to save time and wasted effort.

NJC, let me know when to read so I can take a guess at the plot twist.

A

323 (edited by njc 2015-03-11 00:21:23)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

It's a magical roof on a magical building.  It's beneath Alina, and she's in the mood to stick it to people especially to the nice guy students of that nice guy Kha.  She hates goodness, which he and his school represent.  That's already implicit in her character.

We know about the necromancer when they explore the containment jar.

If Earthwound or the Black staff can be linked even indirectly to death magic you have the link Judy asks for.  Old threat/sideshow is revealed to be the main attraction through a series of episodes.  See symphonic structure and Beethoven.  Then all the reveals that now exist become amplification.

It's even better if the reader sees it before the characters do.

Amy et al., the place for the link to drop in is right there in plain sight, from the first jeopardy to the unplanned capture of Caneth.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

What you have now is an out-of-the-frying-pan (Alina) into the fire (necromancer) progression.  I don't see anything wrong with it, BUT you could link plot lines/jeopardies (NOT themes) if you link the Black Staff or Earthwound or both to necromancy via Death Magic, which is an established part of your world.

(Now, if you explored Katerin's loyalty to Alina vs. first Anver's loyalty to Kha and then Anver's loyalty to Katerin, you would be dealing in themes.  If you invited the reader directly to follow you to a conclusion, you would have a thesis.)

325 (edited by njc 2015-03-11 00:47:20)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

The real Q? is why Geron the Mage Master allows Alina to do this.  'twould  be good to mention Geron and explain why he allows it (he would be outvoted by all the other misbirths on the council).  Maybe even mention that Anver considered approaching him, but knew if he lost everyone on the council would have a general warrant on all things and all persons Kha.

Maybe even have that as subtext (later explained) in the argument between Alina and Anver.  Give Tilly a chance to get good and riled as Anver explains--one more reason for her to hate Katerin.