Re: Using AI to do reviews
I told it to summarize the book in 500 words and uploaded a pdf with all three books in it.
- Randall Krzak
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Re: Using AI to do reviews
Elysse Panon wrote:
AI might find a suitable place, but NOTHING replaces the human mind. We write for people, not machines. Fake flowers don't compare with the beauty of real ones. And if we let AI sabotage human efforts, what's left?
Fully agree
- jack the knife
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Re: Using AI to do reviews
vern wrote:
SolN wrote:So, I think we have two separate questions.
1. Can AI reviews be helpful? I think the answer is yes. As I've seen on Booksie, AI is good at spotting grammatical problems and can also provide feedback on plot, character development, setting, etc. It has "read" all of the best-selling work out there so knows the formula of what works and what doesn't.
2. Should reviewers use AI to leave reviews on TNBW? I believe the answer is no. When you leave a review, you are representing that you have read the work and are providing "your" opinion, not the opinion and feedback of someone else or a machine.
I've also thought about whether AI will replace human writers. I believe the answer is yes for technical work and potentially some non-fiction. For fiction, I think it might become its own genre - AI Written. I like to use clothing as an analogy. Much of the clothing we wear is made by machines in modern times. But the really valuable clothing is still hand made. Why? Because there is something human in the creation, the stitching, the fabrication and people who wear it find appealing. It's original and unique in a way machine created clothing is not.
This all leads me to two thoughts.
1. Perhaps we need to add some AI feedback to TNBW like what we have with Booksie. I think authors might find it helpful.
2. Reviewers should be be substituting AI for their own feedback. I believe a site where everyone simply pasts AI feedback is a diminished one that one that has no more reason to exist.Happy to hear all of your thoughts.
Sol
I see nothing wrong or right about AI checking grammar/punctuation since it is simply based on preestablished "rules" and if you use Word, it pretty much does that automatically as you type, but as far as getting into plot, etc., it may have "read" all the bestselling works but I doubt it knows what will be a best seller and simply mimicking best sellers of the past is only giving the reader a regurgitation of what someone else has produced. Creativity, at least for now, is in the realm of humans, not machines. Any use of AI for reviews on this site should be banned in my humble opinion along with the person who submitted it as their own. My opinion outside the machine looking for a wrench to toss in the gears. Take care. Vern
How would such banning work? Would we need an AI program to detect AI? And then what? Have it eliminate one of its “own”? AI programs have shown remarkable abilities in self-preservation, including one instance where a program blackmailed its engineer to prevent him from dismantling it. An advantage of advanced AI is its ability to “learn.” Scary stuff.
- Tamsin Liddell
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Re: Using AI to do reviews
I support having a TNBW-based "AI Reviewer" available. Obviously I don't know how difficult it would be to implement, so I can accept it if it isn't. I use Grok to aid my research, and also as an alpha-reader. And I am fully aware of the weaknesses of it in many regards. I do not use it to create. I may bounce ideas off of it, ask if my characters are consistent, or if my hypothetical consequences make sense, but I don't have it rewrite my stuff (and often curse at it when it tries).
I'd think that hunting down people using AI to review would be nigh impossible anyway. I looked at a couple of "AI detectors" recently and one of the biggest complaints was that they were too inconsistent. It is what it is. If someone is burning through a bunch of reviews too quickly, then maybe? I don't know. All I know is I do my reviews by hand, and I'd hope others would do the same for me. I can't control what anyone else does, nor do I wish to. Too "Big Brother" for my taste. (1984, not the TV show. And yes, I've had to make that clarification more than once in RL.)
- vern
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Re: Using AI to do reviews
jack the knife wrote:
vern wrote:SolN wrote:So, I think we have two separate questions.
1. Can AI reviews be helpful? I think the answer is yes. As I've seen on Booksie, AI is good at spotting grammatical problems and can also provide feedback on plot, character development, setting, etc. It has "read" all of the best-selling work out there so knows the formula of what works and what doesn't.
2. Should reviewers use AI to leave reviews on TNBW? I believe the answer is no. When you leave a review, you are representing that you have read the work and are providing "your" opinion, not the opinion and feedback of someone else or a machine.
I've also thought about whether AI will replace human writers. I believe the answer is yes for technical work and potentially some non-fiction. For fiction, I think it might become its own genre - AI Written. I like to use clothing as an analogy. Much of the clothing we wear is made by machines in modern times. But the really valuable clothing is still hand made. Why? Because there is something human in the creation, the stitching, the fabrication and people who wear it find appealing. It's original and unique in a way machine created clothing is not.
This all leads me to two thoughts.
1. Perhaps we need to add some AI feedback to TNBW like what we have with Booksie. I think authors might find it helpful.
2. Reviewers should be be substituting AI for their own feedback. I believe a site where everyone simply pasts AI feedback is a diminished one that one that has no more reason to exist.Happy to hear all of your thoughts.
Sol
I see nothing wrong or right about AI checking grammar/punctuation since it is simply based on preestablished "rules" and if you use Word, it pretty much does that automatically as you type, but as far as getting into plot, etc., it may have "read" all the bestselling works but I doubt it knows what will be a best seller and simply mimicking best sellers of the past is only giving the reader a regurgitation of what someone else has produced. Creativity, at least for now, is in the realm of humans, not machines. Any use of AI for reviews on this site should be banned in my humble opinion along with the person who submitted it as their own. My opinion outside the machine looking for a wrench to toss in the gears. Take care. Vern
How would such banning work? Would we need an AI program to detect AI? And then what? Have it eliminate one of its “own”? AI programs have shown remarkable abilities in self-preservation, including one instance where a program blackmailed its engineer to prevent him from dismantling it. An advantage of advanced AI is its ability to “learn.” Scary stuff.
Kind of like any ban would work; if it is detected then the user is banned. If a substance is banned, you obviously can't punish the dealer unless they are caught, but that doesn't eliminate the ban and its usefulness as a deterrent or punishment. Take care. Vern
- vern
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Re: Using AI to do reviews
Tamsin Liddell wrote:
I support having a TNBW-based "AI Reviewer" available. Obviously I don't know how difficult it would be to implement, so I can accept it if it isn't. I use Grok to aid my research, and also as an alpha-reader. And I am fully aware of the weaknesses of it in many regards. I do not use it to create. I may bounce ideas off of it, ask if my characters are consistent, or if my hypothetical consequences make sense, but I don't have it rewrite my stuff (and often curse at it when it tries).
I'd think that hunting down people using AI to review would be nigh impossible anyway. I looked at a couple of "AI detectors" recently and one of the biggest complaints was that they were too inconsistent. It is what it is. If someone is burning through a bunch of reviews too quickly, then maybe? I don't know. All I know is I do my reviews by hand, and I'd hope others would do the same for me. I can't control what anyone else does, nor do I wish to. Too "Big Brother" for my taste. (1984, not the TV show. And yes, I've had to make that clarification more than once in RL.)
If anything is too Big Brother, then one must ask, "How can you have Big Brother?" without AI? Just saying. Take care. Vern
- Dirk B
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Re: Using AI to do reviews
In Canada it would be A-eye-eh. Sounds like a refrain from "Old MacDonald had a Farm." :-)
- Dirk B
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Re: Using AI to do reviews
This reminded me of a song I learned in kindergarten fifty-five years ago. I never knew the name, just remembered one verse. I fed it into Gemini, and it said, "That's a classic!" and went on to name the song (The Austrian Yodeler) and explain some of the history. I'm so glad to be retired and not have to worry about competing with AI. Yeesh.
- George FLC
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Re: Using AI to do reviews
whatta wrote:
I experimented with ChatGPT and found it did a very good job summarizing a 340,000 word trilogy into 500 words—which I used for a query letter.
Wow. I'm impressed. How long did it take to generate the 500 words?
- Randall Krzak
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Re: Using AI to do reviews
If members of TNBW are going to start relying on AI to do reviews, I think I'll bow out.
- Dirk B
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Re: Using AI to do reviews
Randall Krzak wrote:
If members of TNBW are going to start relying on AI to do reviews, I think I'll bow out.
Randy, I think the discussion above morphed into one about whether writers (not reviewers) here should have access to an AI reviewer like the one on Booksie. Admittedly, I've yet to try it. I keep meaning to cross-post over there, but life keeps getting in my way.
The general consensus is that AI should not be used to generate reviews for others; that would make for a rather useless site. Writers can do that themselves. Using an AI to clean up chapters before posting them here is a no-brainer, though, for folks who don't have a good handle on grammar and punctuation. That way, reviewers here can focus on the story rather than writing mechanics.
I don't think there's anything wrong, though, with helping someone figure out how to use an AI to clean up a chapter before posting.
- whatta
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Re: Using AI to do reviews
George FLC wrote:
whatta wrote:I experimented with ChatGPT and found it did a very good job summarizing a 340,000 word trilogy into 500 words—which I used for a query letter.
Wow. I'm impressed. How long did it take to generate the 500 words?
I directed it to 'Think Longer' and it took less than 30 seconds, I'd say (I didn't note the time).
- whatta
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Re: Using AI to do reviews
Randall Krzak wrote:
If members of TNBW are going to start relying on AI to do reviews, I think I'll bow out.
Me too. I think Dirk summed up this thread accurately, though. It's more about the (debatable) use of the A-eye tool. Feels like a homogenization of writing would be the result of "written by A-eye" stories.
Just to note, I submitted my five part series with 6 different pdfs: 1 for each book (at 100 words summary each) and another for the entire series (in 500 words). It was interesting to see the difference. There were several instances in the 100-word summaries where some details weren't accurate. Additionally, while it named some characters, it never once mentioned the name Gulliver. Some part of that may have been affected by adding "and the further travels of Gulliver" to the title after I had already made the pdfs. Maybe I'll run it through again and see if it notices.
I should also mention that it didn't give the last book, (a novel at 103,000 words) and imo the whole crux of the biscuit, the attention it deserves. For me, the denouement is a large factor in determining how good I think a story is. (I weigh the style of writing heavier than the storyline. It can have a crap ending if the style carries me. I'm looking at you, Tolstoy. See also: Bukowski, whose endings were just another day in his life.) A-eye doesn't value the denouement with any amount of preference (or, shall we say, emotion).
Also of note: I resubmitted Book 1 by itself and it referenced details from the other books! That's kinda unnerving. It's A-eye-and-ear, in actuality, by definition, I guess.
Anywho, I'm just collecting snippets and putting them together with some suggestions from a pro on the site and editing (read: muddling) my way through to some sort of perfect query letter for two books (Street of Rogues, a 3-volume memoir which includes Tropical Cancer, and the Noble Book of Lindsay the Tall &...). Sad to note: I've actually worked longer on the 'perfect' query letter for Street... than I have on the book.
And I'm totally with all of us here on this thread; the idea of stylistically homogenous books generated by an average of "norms" is horrifying -- Orwellian, even. I like to think, in my optimistic way, that creative, unique, and ground-breaking writing will continue to find a place with courageous publishers.
Carry on,
whatta
- George FLC
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Re: Using AI to do reviews
Randall Krzak wrote:
If members of TNBW are going to start relying on AI to do reviews, I think I'll bow out.
This isn't even a debate. I enjoy aspects of author's writings. And I want to let the author know what I think.
At times I've changed my style or approach based on how others write. I want to grow as an author. How can I do that if an AI is doing everything?
I love to learn and create. I want to keep on doing that.
George FLC
- vern
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Re: Using AI to do reviews
When AI starts telling all supporters of Trump how and why they should get rid of Trump in no uncertain terms any time he is mentioned, I might start believing it has merit in any type of communication. Take care. Vern
