Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

The phrase "One, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church" appears in the Nicene Creed and, in part, in the Apostles' Creed ("the holy catholic church", sanctam Ecclesiam catholicam. The phrase is intended to set forth the four marks, or identifying signs, of the Christian Church—unity, holiness, universality, and apostolicity—and is based on the premise that all true Christians form a single united group founded by the apostles.

Don't wanna get in a prolonged discussion about it, but that's what Constantine agreed to. I'm not religious, but rather look at it from a historical perspective.   :o)

Also, in some interpretations, 'church' is believed to mean 'congregation.'

Ray

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Heretic. :-)

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Question about the exorcists shadowing Connor. I chose to have two so that at least one could always be on duty, even at night. Theoretically, I could name both and have them appear together from time to time. However, there's a problem with having too many priests in one scene, not to mention too many named characters, especially given that all the names are foreign. My first crack at this was to use Father Luca as both the soccer coach and exorcist. The other one was off "resting". Father Luca carried over to the hospital, guarding Connor overnight after the lightning strike. A long shift, but still reasonable. With the release of my latest chapter, I again prefer to have just one exorcist, so it's Father Luca again. However, I can't keep saying the other one is resting and never have him show up. Stands out like a sore thumb. I think I have to bite the bullet and name them both and have them both appear from time to time, even if they're never together. Readers won't remember who these guys are (bit parts), so I have to remind the reader once or twice per scene who they are (e.g. Father Luca, the exorcist, said ...). It's a limited problem since I will ditch both of them at the end of this act. The Holy Land guide (also a priest) will conveniently also have exorcism training.

Reasonable?
Dirk

704

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Given that I don't remember them and you plan to ditch them, are they needed?

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Yes. Connor's under repeated attack by demonic forces. It seems like the natural thing for the Church to do. Think of them like guards in a conventional story. However, since the characters interact with them, they need names. There will also be Vatican Swiss Guards in the next act; in their case, I'll only name the senior guard.

706

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Dirk B. wrote:

There will also be Vatican Swiss Guards in the next act; in their case


Maybe they can enter the story here.

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Tricky. They're the kind of background characters you would normally want me to punt, but they play a role that I would have to assign to other priests (eg the soccer coach), and since they interact with the MCs, I'd have to name them anyway. I'm stuck with them for act 1. I'll change to two named exorcists and see how it reads.

Thanks
Dirk

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

I got scene 4.1 down to 9.25 pages. I may be able to trim a little more if I lose the buses. I'm going to wait for more feedback before deciding what else to chop. The scene with Damiano blessing the Pope was meant to lead to Damiano receiving a small gold(en) cross to wear, similar to the one Inspector De Rosa wears. Unfortunately, that would easily require another half page. On the other hand, if I yank out all of the stuff relating to the Pope, I'd hit my page count but would lose the Yoda joke and Death Star comparison, which add some fun to a Catholic-heavy scene.

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Dirk B. wrote:

I got scene 4.1 down to 9.25 pages. I may be able to trim a little more if I lose the buses. I'm going to wait for more feedback before deciding what else to chop. The scene with Damiano blessing the Pope was meant to lead to Damiano receiving a small gold(en) cross to wear, similar to the one Inspector De Rosa wears. Unfortunately, that would easily require another half page. On the other hand, if I yank out all of the stuff relating to the Pope, I'd hit my page count but would lose the Yoda joke and Death Star comparison, which add some fun to a Catholic-heavy scene.


Waiting for more feedback is a dangerous proposition here, Dirk. Place is like a graveyard. Wonder how many active people there are here. I mean people who actually write, not those who rest on their mostly unpublished laurels and use this site like Facebook. Also, why lose the buses? You gotta show the reader how they get to where they're going, no? Why do you care if the scene covers 9 1/4 pages? Nobody's interested in a page count. For what it's worth: I didn't like the Star Wars stuff. I have nothing against Star Wars, but anything that came after the first 3 films sucks.   :o)

Ray

710 (edited by Dirk B. 2020-02-19 09:56:18)

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

The Star Wars stuff came from the first three films. And yes the prequels and sequels mostly sucked. I have  other reviewers of my writing. I just need time to recip to get their input.
The buses will not totally disappear, but that part is clunky. I think I can do better.

Dirk

711

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

The bus contention is my fault. As a reader, I invested into a bus trip only to find they got off like two paragraphs later which foiled my investment.

For me a simple "X & Y got off the bus..." is sufficient. Or even "X & Y walked into the Sistine Chapel" which implies they got there somehow.

And yes, Star Wars has been a large bucket of suckery for the past 20 years

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Dirk B. wrote:

The Star Wars stuff came from the first three films.

Doesn't matter. Still didn't like it.   :o)

I really don't understand the big deal about the bus. It's a minute part of the overall atmosphere of the piece: a day of interesting sightseeing for a group of orphans. A breather. Not hard to 'invest' in. But I'll stay out of it. I know nothing.

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Netflix just notified me of a new upcoming series called Constantine, starring Keanu Reeves, which involves a deal between God and Satan. Winner take all. It's based on a long-running comic book series and a series of novels. I almost freaked. As far as I can tell from the trailer and Wikipedia, many important elements differ. TBD.

714

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Hah, I hadn't noticed the story was called "SAVING C o n n o r". oops. Well I stand by my statement... give him a really strong villain and he should be fine. Weak villain needs a stronger protag (I don't mean physical strength or power level)

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

After a little rewording, I shaved about twenty words from the opening paragraph. The buses remain, but the stage direction is significantly reduced. Not bad. Naturally, there was other stuff that I wanted to put back into the chapter, which I had previously purged. Same total word count. There's other stuff I can trim, depending on further feedback.

However, since you weren't too thrilled about St. Peter's Basilica, you may hate the second act. Connor will go from site to site in the Holy Land, following in the footsteps of Jesus. Lot's of biblical and archaeological details. He will either be under attack or perform increasing miracles. It's going to be interesting to see how many such miracles I can come up with. The good news is they ride in SUVs, not buses. tongue

716 (edited by Dirk B. 2020-02-25 12:06:00)

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

I took another crack at bypassing the whole notion that the killer is a powerful demon. I'm trying to jump straight to the hunt for the Antichrist.

Inspectors Campagna and De Rosa drove in her Alfa Romeo to Orfanotrofio di San Nicola to see Father Romano and Connor.
“What do you think of our case?” she asked.
“I’ve been giving this a lot of thought. I think there are three possible killers. It has to be a member of the Unholy Trinity — the Antichrist, the False Prophet, or Satan himself. My money is on the Antichrist.”
“Why?”
“We’ve found no explanation for the damage to the basilica. If it wasn’t an earthquake, then it would require extraordinary power, the kind only a member of the Unholy Trinity could wield. If lesser demons could kill cardinals and destroy churches, it would happen all the time.”
“So why the Antichrist and not the False Prophet or Satan?”
“In the Book of Revelation, the Antichrist rises before the False Prophet, which is one of the reasons I discount the latter. Also, the False Prophet’s role is to make others worship the Antichrist. I see no evidence of that here. Satan, on the other hand, has far too much pride to become personally involved. He wouldn’t debase himself to kill an old man and damage a building. That’s the kind of thing he would delegate to a lesser being. Also, it explains the ring with the numbers 666 — the mark of the beast, generally considered to be the Antichrist.
“But the Antichrist is human. How do you explain the fog and his ability to slip under locked doors?”
“Given his supernatural powers, I would say he’s only partially human. Historically, some leading theologians have speculated that he could be the son of Satan himself. Consider Revelation 13:2. It says the dragon, meaning Satan, gave the Antichrist his power and his throne and great authority. Satan, being who he is, would never willingly surrender such great power to someone else unless that person had his absolute trust. Hence, an offspring. Given the Antichrist’s power, I’m not surprised he can turn into fog and slip under locked doors.

Does it work?

Thanks
Dirk

717

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Could be made to work.

I'm a fan of getting to the point. If I'm sold on a demon book only to find out it's not a demon book, it can erode my reading experience. I haven't been on your back, because I gather the mystery genre is entirely about not getting to the point until the final chapter.

That said, it seems like such a structural change, should I ask what the goal is?

718 (edited by Dirk B. 2020-02-25 12:14:54)

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

You're up early.

As the book summary states, the Church eventually comes to the conclusion they and Connor are being stalked by the Antichrist. It's all about getting to that hypothesis asap. The fact that the destruction of the basilica requires great power makes it possible for me to skip demons and go straight to the Unholy Trinity. The hunt for the serial killer then becomes a hunt to mask the Antichrist, which is as originally intended.

719

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Forgot that part like I forgot it states Connor lives

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Technically, the title refers to the Church's attempt to save Connor. However, there are three books and he's the focus of the series, so yes he survives book one.

721

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Off topic: Line 1 is heavy

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Line 1?

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Hmm. I replaced the discussion about a powerful demon with speculation about the Antichrist and the resulting scene (Campagna meets Connor) is now eleven pages. Makes the St. Peter's Basilica scene look downright short. :-)

724

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Dirk B. wrote:

Line 1?

Yep!

Inspectors C and R drove in R's A R to X di Y  to see A and B.

That's a very dense sentence. Lots of data packed in a short space. It's not "bad" per se because it gets all the actors on stage, but it catches my eye

Re: The Gathering Darkness (the Connor series) - Dirk B.

Ah. Now I get it. Meditate on this, I will. Scene 1.4's first paragraph is worse.