1 Reply by Helen Chambers

(73 replies, posted in TheNextBigWriter Premium)

njc wrote:

Matt Bird's emphasis is on the reader--how to make your story connect with and reward the reader.  That's what makes it different from all the other books I've seen on the subject (some of which were very helpful).

This sounds very interesting, and a much more interesting approach than the endless list of 'how to' and formulaic 'writing for dummies' type of manuals, which frankly, I'm sick of.

I will check out Matt Bird's 'The Secrets of Story' and thank you for the recommendation and the link.

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2 Reply by Helen Chambers

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dagnee wrote:

When Fifty Shades of Gray and The Twilight Saga make millions, both of which were poorly written and had predictable plots, I think it's safe to say a writer, to be successful, needs to know what the public wants to read. Face it. There are no rules. Writing is a crap shoot and if you're writing for anything other than the joy of writing, you're in the wrong profession.

smile

Fifty Shades of Grey.  It says so in the Bibble.

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3 Reply by Helen Chambers

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cobber wrote:

There are hard ways to write a book and easy ways. In my humble opinion, the hard way is to go in without any kind of guide and simply write what you think is good literature and a good story. Some writers will luck into success, but the vast majority will fail. It's like building a house without a blueprint or even an idea of what makes a desirable house. Sure, one in a million will get lucky, but the vast majority wind up with a wreck.

Most good stories have common elements and learning what these are allows a writer to better sculpt their writing and also go outside the lines when it is necessary. We all start to learn about the formula in grade school - beginning, middle, and end. Personally, I'd rather be told how to create a compelling story than have to learn for myself. This is all my opinion, of course, and people can write however they want. The ultimate arbiters are the readers.

True, to an extent.

Do you feel that a good or even a great writer, one who succeeds commercially -- i.e. a writer with a publishing contract and those ultimate arbiters, the readers, purchasing the novel in their droves from bookstores -- could be any individual who takes "the easy way" and is taught, guided or formulated into that position? The pygmalion effect theory?

Education and the application of 'the formula' are the only things standing between last week's bored housewife and next year's J. K. Rowling?

Are great writers, like musicians, artists and artistes, born, or can anyone be 'easy-way'd' into a great writer by learning the rules and regs?

Why are so few Grammar Dons published?

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4 Reply by Helen Chambers

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Charles_F_Bell wrote:
njc wrote:

I just spent an evening reading The Secrets of Story by Matt Bird.  It was a very well spent evening, and money well spent on the trade paper edition.

Looking to Hollywood hack writers for advice is looking to an industry that produces by far more failures than successes. Edge of Tomorrow (2014) lost $78 million and not because of bad acting or direction or lack of action/special effects or even the story's premise - it was the script, perfect to the formula in every respect.

Here's some other formulaic  don'ts

Stories written in present tense (especially third person present tense)
Stories with graphic dead baby scenes
Stories about writers
Stories about struggling marriages
Stories set in bars
Stories with more backstory than plot
Stories with undeveloped characters
Stories that are overly reflective

All of which  Edge of Tomorrow didn't do.

I assume that the conversation here is forum-wide and not private and it is okay to jump in?

There seems to be a mix-up here between script writing and written stories. Despite the quoted 'formula don'ts' that you seem to be applying to movie scripts, 'don't write in the present tense' breaks that 'rule' in about every movie script ever written.

There are huge differences between writing books and writing scripts. The other 'don'ts' listed are more genre specific than general.

I agree with you that much is made of formula and that most of it is claptrap. Reading amateur writing it is often very obvious when writers adhere to the concept of a formula. The writing reads like a painting-by-numbers and the tick of the boxes is audible within the prose by the reader. There is a contest on this site for instance, where entrants are asked to include a list of certain words within a story. So obsessed are some authors with that formula that they highlight each prerequisite word with bold font, underscore or a alarming color in order to signify what? It makes the read seem contrived and makes the reader feel patronized, as if the author assumes that without the highlight we'd never recognize the word? It is a perfect example of that audible tick in the box, in this case whenever the required formula word is encountered. I've seen this technique within learning books for toddlers, but adult literature; really?

The truth is that good writing is simply good writing and good scripts are simply good scripts. The reader or viewer/listener decides. No one goes back over a something that they read and enjoyed and subsequently un-likes it when they realize that it doesn't actually tick a formula box.

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