Topic: A new question about groups

I received a message from a new member today who said she could not read the review I gave her work because she is not a member of the Premium Group.  Is this true?  If so, I have been wasting a lot of time, trying to review work for new members who just joined the Free group.  I would hate for this to be the case, because I recommended that she stay in the Free group until she decided which group she wanted to join.  I made that recommendation based on the threads I read in the Forums.  JP  If her perception is wrong, I'll give you her name.

Quote Post 1

Re: A new question about groups

JP, I could be wrong, but we're both members of the free group as well as the premium.  Therefore, our reviews should cross over without a problem.  I've reviewed people who are new and they haven't had a problem reading what I've written.  What is her name?  I'll poke over on her side of the site and see if she can read my review.

Quote Post 2

Re: A new question about groups

I received a message from a new member today who said she could not read the review I gave her work because she is not a member of the Premium Group.  Is this true?  If so, I have been wasting a lot of time, trying to review work for new members who just joined the Free group.  I would hate for this to be the case, because I recommended that she stay in the Free group until she decided which group she wanted to join.  I made that recommendation based on the threads I read in the Forums.  JP  If her perception is wrong, I'll give you her name.

This is not true. She must be confused. Only Premium members can read in-line reviews they receive. Maybe that is what she meant. But with regular reviews there should be no problem.

Quote Post 3

Re: A new question about groups

I gave her an in-line review, and she couldn't see it.  Does that mean members of the Free group can only receive regular reviews?  I didn't realize that.  JP

Quote Post 4

Re: A new question about groups

I gave her an in-line review, and she couldn't see it.  Does that mean members of the Free group can only receive regular reviews?  I didn't realize that.  JP

They can give and receive in-line reviews but can only read them if they become Premium Members.

Quote Post 5

Re: A new question about groups

Perhaps there is some way to warn reviewers who are reviewing free members' work that the latter can only see regular reviews. While inline reviews are an awesome feature and may attract more premium members, it will be frustrating to both reviewers and free authors if the time has been wasted in doing a review that the latter can't read. Unless there's a message, every premium reviewer will probably run into this limitation at least once when reviewing free work until they've learned not use inline for free members. Also, will premium members be able to tell if an author is free only?

I'm not sure if this is part of the system yet, since I'm in premium, but it would probably be best for free members if they could see the inline review (including the closing comments at the bottom), but not get access to the inline comments (e.g., if they click on an inline comment it tells them they have to be a premium member). This gives them no more functionality than a regular review, but entices them by showing them what they could get if they pay up.

Regards,
Dirk

Quote Post 6

Re: A new question about groups

Norm:

You need to keep something under the sleeve or else nobody would be interested in becoming a premium member. What should be done is that, in a piece of work is published by a non-premium writer, inline reviews must be blocked for such piece.

Kiss,

Gacela.

Quote Post 7

8 Reply by charles_bell (edited by charles_bell 2015-01-12 23:47:46)

Re: A new question about groups

Mariana Reuter wrote:

Norm:

You need to keep something under the sleeve or else nobody would be interested in becoming a premium member. What should be done is that, in a piece of work is published by a non-premium writer, inline reviews must be blocked for such piece.

However, the benefit of the inline review belongs  to the reviewer (premium) and not so much to the one being reviewed (free) and yet the premium will have wasted his time if the free cannot read the review or the premium has to resort to a regular review though he may not want to -- the inline review being a kind of a cheap quasi-review, except on grammar and punctuation.

Quote Post 8

Re: A new question about groups

charles_bell wrote:

However, the benefit of the inline review belongs  to the reviewer (premium) and not so much to the one being reviewed (free) and yet the premium will have wasted his time if the free cannot read the review or the premium has to resort to a regular review though he may not want to -- the inline review being a kind of a cheap quasi-review, except on grammar and punctuation.

Hmm...I wonder if someone who has been on the site since 2006 and is a free member who can't read in-lines is the best person to be pontificating on the value of in-line reviews...just sayin'

Quote Post 9

10 Reply by charles_bell (edited by charles_bell 2015-01-13 01:35:09)

Re: A new question about groups

Temple Wang wrote:
charles_bell wrote:

However, the benefit of the inline review belongs  to the reviewer (premium) and not so much to the one being reviewed (free) and yet the premium will have wasted his time if the free cannot read the review or the premium has to resort to a regular review though he may not want to -- the inline review being a kind of a cheap quasi-review, except on grammar and punctuation.

Hmm...I wonder if someone who has been on the site since 2006 and is a free member who can't read in-lines is the best person to be pontificating on the value of in-line reviews...just sayin'

Actually, yes.  I will say that inline reviews are of little use to me as a free- or premium-member recipient of them, but, and you would know this if you read and/or comprehended the first post in the thread, for a paying member it could be frustrating not to be able to post them to a free member in a way they can be of use to that free member. It makes no sense to me to have a service for which one is paying but cannot use without restriction, that is: to anyone.

Quote Post 10

Re: A new question about groups

charles_bell wrote:
Temple Wang wrote:
charles_bell wrote:

However, the benefit of the inline review belongs  to the reviewer (premium) and not so much to the one being reviewed (free) and yet the premium will have wasted his time if the free cannot read the review or the premium has to resort to a regular review though he may not want to -- the inline review being a kind of a cheap quasi-review, except on grammar and punctuation.

Hmm...I wonder if someone who has been on the site since 2006 and is a free member who can't read in-lines is the best person to be pontificating on the value of in-line reviews...just sayin'

Actually, yes.  I will say that inline reviews are of little use to me as a free- or premium-member recipient of them, but, and you would know this if you read and/or comprehended the first post in the thread, for a paying member it could be frustrating not to be able to post them to a free member in a way they can be of use to that free member. It makes no sense to me to have a service for which one is paying but cannot use without restriction, that is: to anyone.

I have found that some people that don't want in-lines are arrogant know-it-alls that have a warped picture of themselves (Illusions of Grandeur) OR writing that is so loaded with grammar, punctuation and structural issues that they can't bear to have them pointed out OR they are simply too lazy to proof their work before they post....and some suffer from all three...it's tragic, really, as they are the ones so desperately in need —they don't realize that no matter how good the story might be, if people can't get past the lousy writing, it's all just an exercise in wheel-spinning.  Alas, sometimes life is unfair when the book must be judged by its cover.... *swoons*

Quote Post 11

12 Reply by njc

Re: A new question about groups

And some of us can simply read things better when we don't have to play point-and-click peek-a-boo with someone else's message.

Quote Post 12

13 Reply by Mariana Reuter (edited by Mariana Reuter 2015-01-13 02:15:41)

Re: A new question about groups

I think that the benefit of the in line review belongs to the one being reviewed. From my standpoint, in line reviews are more detailed, because they point exactly to the lines/words that have a problem/issue/require polishing. So, the final benefit is for the one being reviewed, who must pay for such benefit. I'm not sure which is the benefit for the reviewer (it's only more work, which doesn't mean I dislike providing them, I'm only stating facts).

I agree with Temple. Somebody who has been a free member since about 8-9 years ago is biased and will always ask for more free benefits using crafty arguments. This is not a free editing service. I wonder if there are people of that sort around here.

Kiss,

Gacela.

Quote Post 13

14 Reply by njc

Re: A new question about groups

Mariana Reuter wrote:

I think that the benefit of the in line review belongs to the one being reviewed. From my standpoint, in line reviews are more detailed, because they point exactly to the lines/words that have a problem/issue/require polishing. So, the final benefit is for the one being reviewed ...

I do not find it a benefit.  Again, having to play click-a-boo with what the reviewer has laboriously provided benefits me not at all.

The reviewer, on the other hand, is spared having to cut-paste the snippets on which he's commenting.  But it's no help if you mean to compare/contrast multiple parts of the text.

Quote Post 14

Re: A new question about groups

Temple Wang wrote:
charles_bell wrote:
Temple Wang wrote:

Hmm...I wonder if someone who has been on the site since 2006 and is a free member who can't read in-lines is the best person to be pontificating on the value of in-line reviews...just sayin'

Actually, yes.  I will say that inline reviews are of little use to me as a free- or premium-member recipient of them, but, and you would know this if you read and/or comprehended the first post in the thread, for a paying member it could be frustrating not to be able to post them to a free member in a way they can be of use to that free member. It makes no sense to me to have a service for which one is paying but cannot use without restriction, that is: to anyone.

I have found that some people that don't want in-lines are arrogant know-it-alls that have a warped picture of themselves (Illusions of Grandeur) OR writing that is so loaded with grammar, punctuation and structural issues that they can't bear to have them pointed out OR they are simply too lazy to proof their work before they post....and some suffer from all three...it's tragic, really, as they are the ones so desperately in need —they don't realize that no matter how good the story might be, if people can't get past the lousy writing, it's all just an exercise in wheel-spinning.  Alas, sometimes life is unfair when the book must be judged by its cover.... *swoons*

This sort of rambling mess of yours is exactly the sort of stuff that ought not to be reviewed inline at all. To point out a missed period or misspelt word here and there is not a review but rather a proofread. If all a reader wants to do is to cheaply gain points by pointing out five mistakes, or what he calls mistakes, then an inline is just fine but of little value to the author who ought to have had other means for proofreading in the first place. A proper review, the sort in my opinion might be worth paying for in premium, is one that points out fundamental flaws in the context of literary standards or queries as to the purpose of the author in doing what he has done in violating particular standards, if intentional, for better understanding for the reader and author that may alter and advance the standards. There is only the emotional feedback of a rather frivolous nature to review thus: here's your five misplaced quotation marks, word-order mistakes, and paragraph breaks, but good job and great story.

Quote Post 15

16 Reply by Temple Wang (edited by Temple Wang 2015-01-13 11:56:41)

Re: A new question about groups

charles_bell wrote:

This sort of rambling mess of yours is exactly the sort of stuff that ought not to be reviewed inline at all. To point out a missed period or misspelt word here and there is not a review but rather a proofread. If all a reader wants to do is to cheaply gain points by pointing out five mistakes, or what he calls mistakes, then an inline is just fine but of little value to the author who ought to have had other means for proofreading in the first place. A proper review, the sort in my opinion might be worth paying for in premium, is one that points out fundamental flaws in the context of literary standards or queries as to the purpose of the author in doing what he has done in violating particular standards, if intentional, for better understanding for the reader and author that may alter and advance the standards. There is only the emotional feedback of a rather frivolous nature to review thus: here's your five misplaced quotation marks, word-order mistakes, and paragraph breaks, but good job and great story.

"Yes, Charles.  Don't worry.  No one has forgotten you.  And everyone who knows you knows you don't like in-lines.  And everyone who knows you knows why.  But thanks for enlightening the Forum with that -  'cause who knows, maybe there's someone new who hasn't had the pleasure of seeing you vent your spleen," said Temple vociferously, and not without a hint of sarcasm.  And maybe when they see your post they'll be compelled to come a runnin' to give you a thorough Freebie review because they are so impressed by your charming attitude.  Have you forgotten the last time you crossed me Charles?  Have those claw marks on your face not healed yet? 
Can't you just try being civil?

Quote Post 16

17 Reply by njc

Re: A new question about groups

In fairness, there are some authors who request nitting.

Different authors ask for or need different things.  Different reviewers have different skills to bring.  Do we make use of it or fight it?

Quote Post 17

Re: A new question about groups

njc wrote:

In fairness, there are some authors who request nitting.

Different authors ask for or need different things.  Different reviewers have different skills to bring.  Do we make use of it or fight it?

Still, there is an implied burden on the reviewer to give what the author asks for (and if he does not, then he would get whatever he gets) and rather too much a burden on the reviewer to proofread unless there is an explicit understanding for work-shopping between the two or within a group. Although I think it is too much to expect a sort of Amazon.Com book review, especially as this is done here chapter-by-chapter, but reviews here are lacking in very much merit except in nitting and patting-on-the-back. It is a sort of unlikely treasure hunt, but I have found gold twice, and I know it is possible.

Quote Post 18

Re: A new question about groups

Temple Wang wrote:
charles_bell wrote:

This sort of rambling mess of yours is exactly the sort of stuff that ought not to be reviewed inline at all. To point out a missed period or misspelt word here and there is not a review but rather a proofread. If all a reader wants to do is to cheaply gain points by pointing out five mistakes, or what he calls mistakes, then an inline is just fine but of little value to the author who ought to have had other means for proofreading in the first place. A proper review, the sort in my opinion might be worth paying for in premium, is one that points out fundamental flaws in the context of literary standards or queries as to the purpose of the author in doing what he has done in violating particular standards, if intentional, for better understanding for the reader and author that may alter and advance the standards. There is only the emotional feedback of a rather frivolous nature to review thus: here's your five misplaced quotation marks, word-order mistakes, and paragraph breaks, but good job and great story.

"Yes, Charles.  Don't worry.  No one has forgotten you.  And everyone who knows you knows you don't like in-lines.  And everyone who knows you knows why.  But thanks for enlightening the Forum with that -  'cause who knows, maybe there's someone knew who hasn't had the pleasure of seeing you vent your spleen," said Temple vociferously, and not without a hint of sarcasm.  And maybe when they see your post they'll be compelled to come a runnin' to give you a thorough Freebie review because they are so impressed by your charming attitude.  Have you forgotten the last time you crossed me Charles?  Have those claw marks on your face not healed yet? 
Can't you just try being civil?

You must be fun at Halloween parties and appendectomy operations.

Quote Post 19

20 Reply by Temple Wang (edited by Temple Wang 2015-01-13 11:09:14)

Re: A new question about groups

njc wrote:

In fairness, there are some authors who request nitting.

Different authors ask for or need different things.  Different reviewers have different skills to bring.  Do we make use of it or fight it?

There is a section above the story post.  It seems to me to be simple enough to use that space to tell people what kind of review you prefer, especially if you don't want an in line.  Charles, for example, makes it very clear in his posts that he can't read inlines as a non-paying member, so offering one to him is a waste of the reviewer's time.  That seems sensible to me, and certainly a better way to make your views known on this matter than ridiculing others for preferring to do in lines and suggesting they are valueless.  How about we all just tell people what kind of review we want, and other people simply respect it.  That way we don't have to get all bent out of shape in the forum.

Quote Post 20

21 Reply by Temple Wang (edited by Temple Wang 2015-01-13 11:58:35)

Re: A new question about groups

charles_bell wrote:

You must be fun at Halloween parties and appendectomy operations.

I'm a blast at Halloween.  That's a Halloween photo in my profile photo, actually.  I'm not much good at appendectomy operations, but looks like the last troll castration I performed seems to have left the patient impotent in more ways than one....

Quote Post 21

22 Reply by njc

Re: A new question about groups

I hope I didn't suggest that an inline review is valueless.  It is harder to read and use and I do ask/my reviewers to avoid them.

Quote Post 22

Re: A new question about groups

njc wrote:

I hope I didn't suggest that an inline review is valueless.  It is harder to read and use and I do ask/my reviewers to avoid them.

Not at all. I think you only mentioned you didn't find it valuable to you personally, which is fine.  To each his own.

Quote Post 23

Re: A new question about groups

I must say that I do find the inline reviews quite valuable. As I stated before, they point at specific parts of the story much better than the regular reviews. It actually depends on which type of feedback you're looking for. If you're looking for general comments, the inline review is not for you. However, for those looking for comments indicating where the story is weak, which phrases need to be reworded to work better, which word usage is not fitting the story, etc., the inline review comes quite useful.

As a reviewer I find it amazing. I can make the comments while I'm reading, which I think is better for the author because then I'm giving my first impressions, much in the way in which the reader would feel it, rather than making the comments after reading the whole chapter, and even after reading what other reviewers commented, thus biasing my own judgement. Because at the end of the inline review there's a place where I can still  make a "regular" review adding general comments, I find the inline reviews quite useful, both when I give or receive them.

Clicking on each  comment afterwards to check each one is no biggie. It's not that you have to click every word of the Enciclopaedia Britannica!

Kiss

Gacela.

Quote Post 24

25 Reply by njc

Re: A new question about groups

But I lose the gestalt.

Quote Post 25