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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Further thought on the Problem with Elves: There could be real truth to what Lucas says about Kha living out of his culture.  His link to Sil could be based not only on his moral choices, but also on his mixed heritage.  Mages among Elfkind might bear special stigma, or special status (which would make Lucas an outcast among his kind, even as he cants about Kha's heritage rejection).  (And doesn't he do this with Anver around?  So Anver has to realize that Kha is half-elf.)

Pity we don't meet one or two others.  (Are they susceptible to Horrors?)  (Do they have links to Behira or Saundon or anyone else?)

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Per Ern's review: Don't simplify, =clarify=.  You've got a rich setting.  Bring it to us!

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Per K. Don't clarify. =simplify=. You've got a lot of mobile targets. Keep killing them like Game of Thrones until we're at the edge of our seats swearing at you that if you kill another we'll hate you as we buy the next book

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Kdot wrote:

Per K. Don't clarify. =simplify=. You've got a lot of mobile targets. Keep killing them like Game of Thrones until we're at the edge of our seats swearing at you that if you kill another we'll hate you as we buy the next book

Although I do kill a few secondary characters (Kdot's influence), my dead characters are mostly redshirts. I hate killing my favorite characters, and Caligula just became one of my favs. I had originally planned to kill him by taking a blast meant for Apollo, but that ending doesn't really fit with the new Caligula. Ah, the possibilities...

1,355 (edited by njc 2016-05-19 02:58:59)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I'm talking about the action in a particular scene, as discussed in a particular review.

As to stripping characters away, I suggest you compare Star Trek TOS with just one plot per episode with TNG, which often had two, or B5, which usually had three and sometimes four.  Amy doesn't have too many characters.  She needs to linearize some places in her action.

You could pretty much solve the classic mystery =I the Jury= by watching who was left alive.  Spillane got away with it, but it gets overworked.  It also undercuts the Happy Ever After, and reduces the impact of the deaths.  When Hedwig was killed, we knew where =Deathly Hallows= was going.  We felt it, far more than we would have felt a random death at Antietam or Shiloh.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I hate killing my favorite characters

When you read 2-3 Acorna books or anything containing the name "Ender" you come to understand this problem troubles the big names of fiction.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Re: I had originally planned to kill him by taking a blast meant for Apollo, but that ending doesn't really fit with the new Caligula. Ah, the possibilities.

Consider having Caligula take an explosion meant for Apollo without intending to sacrifice himself. Kind of ironic that he would become a martyr and elevated as noble for an act that he didn't intend to do. Kind of funny, actually.

New Jersey, what particular review? The most recent? I'm unsure.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Erndog's review of your latest chapter.


Something to note: K's stories are about individuals in a milieu.  Yours are about multiple people whose actions affect each other.  The extreme prune that works for him may be disaster for you.  It certainly would be disaster for me because my story is as much about the milieu as the characters.

When GRRM kills off a character, it's not to clear the field or to piss off readers.  It's to cut off an avenue of hope.  And people who might, with a nudge, have become heroes revert to their worst: Tyrion Lannister (if I remember the name aright) and the dragon woman.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

The killing field on GOT is so vast...There are only about 20 characters left in the story that are morally good. (and one of them is the 'High Sparrow' who is willling to do evil deeds in the name of his gods) That makes any good guy a victim for the tornado running through the bloodlines of the nobility. They are uniting now. Jon Snow is with Sansa. Tyrion is with the 'dragon woman'. Great storyline, but he's killed off nearly everyone interesting.


I agree that K's murder spree isn't my style. Basing a plot based on how many people can have a name that starts with K... Definitely not me. However, it isn't realistic to assume that I can't kill off anyone. I'm struggling to write Petra's goodbye. But that shouldn't be my focus. It should be to wrap up the story.

So I'm taking a break and hanging out on Facebook. I submitted my first chapter of Dictates for a paid critique by PS Literary. There was a lecture on how to write a good first chapter. Definitely worth my time. It gave me a good idea on how to strengthen the beginning of Mandates. A couple ideas on how to strengthen Elishiva's first chapter as well.

Definitely worth my time.

A

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

"shouldn't be my focus" may miss the point.  Yes, you need to find the end.  But you have a problem you're solving here, too.  You're developing skill and each obstacle is a skill to develop.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

amy s wrote:

It gave me a good idea on how to strengthen the beginning of Mandates. A couple ideas on how to strengthen Elishiva's first chapter as well.

Eeep! I've been trying really really hard to focus on the first draft, otherwise I'll get distracted and never finish. Any editing ideas are going in my notebook. tongue

I don't think I could convince myself to kill off a main character, unless it's for a really good plot-related reason. Side characters? Sure, but again, some sort of reason is required. (As long as the reason isn't my limitation as a writer)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I kill characters to make readers hate the bad guy. So far it works like a charm. Then again, I write Romance. Killing is frowned upon and should be used sparingly as we all know peeps read Romance because it's sweet and not ao much bloody. Looks at K. Looks at my time period. Well, that's the theory for MOST Romances anyways! smile

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

OK, on a sidenote. Last night, there were a few souls who pulled out their motorcycles...buffed and shined them, spit-polishing a few fingerprints off of the perfect finish...drank a beer and thought, "I'm going to take a ride with the wind in my hair and F**K MYSELF UP!"

Lawd save me.

Here is my thought for you, Elishiva. (Keep writing and don't revise. But consider this.) Part of the lecture was about finding the right place to start a first chapter.  Their points helped me with my quandary about Kha and why his first chapter doesn't seem to work for me. In your work, I think your book starts when the female dragon attacks the humans. The birth is backstory. The long walk through the caves searching for food and water...that isn't an action scene. If you started the story at the human-dragon conflict...now that is a great hook to interest the reader.

It doesn't require much change. Just deletion and merging any backstory/ info into a chapter after the attack.

Consider it. That's all I ask.

A

1,364 (edited by njc 2016-05-20 07:27:20)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

It's going to depend on what the story is.  I'd rather have the story begin in the right place.  Noi and his sister have a perilous hatching and a perilous early life.  Make that good enough and you don't need the human conflict.

Is your back cover blurb going to say that the dragons are major characters, that their struggle is an essential part of the story?  Then you're writing for readers who are prepared to accept them as protagonists ... so long as the story is good.

Heinlein started =Starship Troopers= in an action scene, then went back and gave the history.  But the struggle in his history was incidental.  The struggle in yours is essential to the story.

There's a humorous example in =The Hunting of the Snark=, =Fit the Third=:

There was silence supreme! Not a shriek, not a scream, Scarcely even a howl or a groan, As the man they called "Ho!" told his story of woe In an antediluvian tone.

"My father and mother were honest, though poor—" "Skip all that!" cried the Bellman in haste. "If it once becomes dark, there's no chance of a Snark—We have hardly a minute to waste!"

"I skip forty years," said the Baker, in tears, "And proceed without further remark To the day when you took me aboard of your ship To help you in hunting the Snark.

"A dear uncle of mine (after whom I was named) Remarked, when I bade him farewell—" "Oh, skip your dear uncle!" the Bellman exclaimed, As he angrily tingled his bell.

"He remarked to me then," said that mildest of men, "'If your Snark be a Snark, that is right: Fetch it home by all means—you may serve it with greens, And it's handy for striking a light."

The start doesn't have to be an action scene.  It has to be a point of departure, a place where the reader is ready to accept =Interesting Story Begins Here=.  Action tends to involve jeopardy, so it's an easy place to start.  But it's also a cheap start, almost a cliche.

Of course, if you're a fan of James Bond movies, opening with a chase scene that would be the high point of most movies is one of the conventions that define your genre.  But compare that to the opening of =The Fast and the Furious=.  I've never watched past the opening, but that opening is a =story= of its own, not just smash-crash-wake-to-find-Amy-suturing-you.

Make us care whether tha dragons survive.  Make them characters-- Actually, you've already done that.  Their opening is stronger that the openings of your human characters.

1,365 (edited by Elisheva Free 2016-05-20 16:47:58)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I see your point. Maya's opening chapter is in revision and I've another chapter in mind between the hatching and the dragons' first meeting with humans. Both of these should improve the beginning of the story, but we'll see how it goes. smile


-Elisheva

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Looking forward to it!

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Hey folks,

I've been drowning in drama at work and otherwise. Contract issues (sign here or find another job), taking a protest to the state level about summer education for Mr Autism ( I won, but I didn't get what I wanted...C wins because he gets extra speech sessions over the summer. I lose because I get to pay for summer school because it is considered to be 'enrichment' and therefore optional.)

I shall fight them next year. (Growls and flexes with fierce expression) Now that I've got the hang of this, there is always another day.

Oh, and my 5 y/o played with a lighter and there was LIVE flame in my house while I was taking a nap. I caught it before it got out of hand. I got a confession and he was really just curious. He had a plan to put it out(small cup of water). I have made a vow. Mr. McGuiver shall not be bored ever again.

So I'm still alive and butt head got to sleep in the bed he tried to set on fire.
Pity that. However, I'm NEVER going to get Mr Autism to cook on a stove now. Like forever. (Sigh)

So I haven't forgotten yuz guys. Just busy. Talk soon.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

In re Slow Chapters:  Slow does not mean uninteresting, especially when Airen gives her opinion of her mother in very plain language.  How much did Marion's character and Airen's coming-to-terms with it shape the Brat?  Airen's a fascinating character and I suggest playing her a little more strongly when you can.

(And what did her Mage With An Itch remark allude to?  Dr. Freud would like to know ... )

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Funny you say you like Airen because Dirk found her really childish:-) Ironic because she is the character I played in a game so long ago.

Mage with an itch refers to Kha's way of dealing with rivals. He doesn't do much other than counter, deflect, and annoy them (with cantrips like sneeze, stutter, and itch. He disables them and saves his shot limit for later in the fight)(assuming a rival is trying to kill his friends)

In Mandates, he is forced to duel (vs necromancer) and then throttled from behind in a surprise attack. Neither gave him much chance to respond as he is used to.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

In Craig Shaw Gardiner's =Ebenezum= series, the eponymous mage runs afoul of a rhyming demon named Guxx Unfafaddo, who finds a spell that makes Ebenezum allergic to his own magic.  After a volume or two, Ebenezum returns the favor and the rhyming demon is reduced to blank verse.  Whenever a rhyme slips in, the magic of Guxx Unfafaddo goes rhyming-demon haywire.  That's the brobdingnagian sort of wire that gets tangled in a brobdingnagian sort of hay-baler.

The likely link between the Brat (Naughty, Naughty Girl) that Airen indulges in and the irregular home in which she grew up had me wondering whether you crafted that link deliberately.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Not on purpose, though I'd like to claim I was well-read enough to use Ebenezum as inspiration.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Norm, I figured I'd go through and post the next chapter of Mandates, but then I realized this was material from 3 years ago. What a mess. This is my oldest stuff and it is SLOPPY. I got the first third of the chapter cleaned, but I can't post it until I've shaken out the cobwebs and given it a spring cleaning.

If you don't mind, go on and read Acts. You liked Yunker and Anver. Hopefully, i can keep you interested while I clean up this slop.

And I'm still writing the next chapter of Dictates. I'm reluctant to kill off Petra, even though her body is history.

Meanwhile, it's time I recip and pay people back for multiple reviews. We're going to Florida in two days. I'm taking my phone and my keyboard, so reviews will be the only thing I can work on. Otherwise, we're going to see Hogwarts and pay the 'mouse tax'. Chaos is guaranteed. Talk soon.

A

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Then plan a great ending later for her, pehaps via her Lance-held soul.  Let her help with a key step in this book or the final one. Maybe even let us see Behira claim her.  She can be the cavalry over the metaphorical hill.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Please don't spend your vacation reviewing my crap ... er, masterpiece. You already review bombed me, so there's no rush.

Moving on to Acts. FYI, I think it would be great if Yunker had a bigger role throughout Acts. He'd be someone that a younger audience could relate to.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Oh, maybe you can have Petra tell Jaylene what Jaylene needs to know about emptying the souls that give strength to the Horror, either the direct fact or something Jaylene can figure it out from.  That would mean beginning the next chapter within the Lance.