Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

Elisheva Free wrote:

So, on the subject of names, I have been wondering. Does a character's last name add to the story or just make it more difficult to keep track of? I have a whole spiel on Elvish last names and Fae last names, but I'm honestly not sure if I want to include last names for my Human characters (or even Dragon characters?).

Then, if I do include last names, what kind of structure would work best? It's not exactly a medieval setting, so last names associated with professions doesn't really fit. Most of the last names I can come up with sound far too modern.

Opinions?

Coming in sideways, so I may not have a clue and this reply may not help, but what about nicknames or their origin (not only occupation)? Reason I'm asking, same with the pesky elves ***side-note: K being an elf explains heaps! hehehe***, before the 1700's, 60% of men was named John, Thomas, and William, and 40% of women Elizabeth, Joan, and Margaret. So nicknames as well as where they were from were used, hence Black John (who may not have anything black on him at all aka Little John that was a giant) and Joan of East Tynedale would be used to differentiate between all the Johns and Elizabeths.

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

Very good points and I love the Smurfs example. Maybe if I explain a little, that might help.

For the Elves in my story, their last name is a rite of passage. When an Elf is born, they are raised by the community. When they reach a certain age, they go out into the world to perform some good deed or bring some useful thing back to their community. This event or thing plays a large part when the Elders give this Elf his or her last name. Think of an Elf's second name as a badge of honor.

For the Fae, it's basically bloodlines, which are a huge deal in their community. It's slightly more complicated than that, but that's very far down the line as far as my story is concerned.

Dragons? To each their own. They are very independent and could care less who their mother or father was. Dragons earn titles, not names.

Humans? I have no idea. I know commoners are far less likely to carry a last name than nobles, but other than that, I'm pretty clueless. I'd like to be at least a little unique about it, but at the same time, I don't want to over-complicate things. To be honest, I am quite good at over-complicating things and do it far too often.

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

Nah, this is not confusing/complicated. You should see some of the stuff Rebecca put us through! (see the thread about the Titles in the Pendragon) She actually have K running out of spreadsheet space ...

I'm not saying this hoping that you accept the challenge and come up with something so (over)complicated it would force K to start a spreadsheet on your novel too and leave the rest of us alone. Especially since you've already graciously offered to be zombie lunch so that I can trip you, sorry, meant to say, so that I can get to safety where Amy is. You're already taking one for the team, it will be unfair to expect you take up more! LOL

In all seriousness though, I think you'll find a solution. And it will be awesome! I'll think about this between 2-3am tomorrow morning (the time I come up with my best ideas, it's just a shame I'm asleep at that time 99.99999% of the freaking time) and if I think of anything, I'll let you know. It might not be the solution, but it might trigger the solution in your mind.

And I really need to catch up with you before I fall too far behind - I made a note!

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

I only give last names to nobility (humans). However,I may have a character who insists on being called by a full name and corrects everyone who doesn't address him correctly. (In honor of my autistic son who does exactly that to me- the person who spawned him:-)

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

janet reid wrote:

I'm not saying this hoping that you accept the challenge and come up with something so (over)complicated it would force K to start a spreadsheet on your novel too and leave the rest of us alone. Especially since you've already graciously offered to be zombie lunch so that I can trip you, sorry, meant to say, so that I can get to safety where Amy is. You're already taking one for the team, it will be unfair to expect you take up more! LOL

Hahaha! I'll do my best not to force the need for a spreadsheet. wink

janet reid wrote:

I'll think about this between 2-3am tomorrow morning (the time I come up with my best ideas, it's just a shame I'm asleep at that time 99.99999% of the freaking time) and if I think of anything, I'll let you know. It might not be the solution, but it might trigger the solution in your mind.!

My ideas usually come about an hour past my bedtime, which is why I keep a notebook on my nightstand. smile

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

amy s wrote:

I only give last names to nobility (humans). However,I may have a character who insists on being called by a full name and corrects everyone who doesn't address him correctly. (In honor of my autistic son who does exactly that to me- the person who spawned him:-)

This totally reminds me of Jack Sparr- I mean, Captain Jack Sparrow. wink

In a novel I read recently, there was a community of mages who could basically control you if they knew your name. So all non-mage denizens of the city either formulated nicknames for themselves or were called by their birth order. For instance, Eustace Jackson might be called Firstson Jackson or Mastersmith Jackson and only his closest friends would know him as Eustace.

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32 Reply by njc

Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

You seem to think of a character as a firework on which you lavish thousands of hours of work, just to have the whole thing shoot off in a few seconds.  A character arc doesn't HAVE to be ballistic.  Your leading men and women don't have to be shooting stars.

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

To be honest, I've never written a story long enough to consider a character's lifespan.  We'll see how prone I am to sudden and/or surprising deaths. wink Though I don't think I'll be killing any main characters soon. I've spent years contemplating Maya, Vierra, Noi, and Dea. Just recently decided to follow through with the writing part of it.

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

Only you could turn earwax into an analogy.

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35 Reply by njc

Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

Or put his earwax in the limelight.

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

I have a visual of green/gold earwax over a spotlight. Come to think of it, maybe I had better stop talking about this

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37 Reply by njc (edited by njc 2015-10-17 22:00:12)

Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

KHippolite wrote:

To re-use my prior analogy, no matter how much earwax you scoop out, there's always more waiting for its turn in the limelight.

And I've got this picture of cavernous, pea-soup green ears with earwax oozing out in a slow-motion avalanche.   sad

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

amy s wrote:

Only you could turn earwax into an analogy.

And make it work ...

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

I like NJC's earwax visual better than mine. (Bows to the Master of Earwax in defeat)

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40 Reply by njc

Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

And we've hijacked poor EF's thread!  I hope her dragons don't sugger from earwax! smile

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41 Reply by Elisheva Free (edited by Elisheva Free 2015-10-19 18:36:09)

Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

I would imagine, living primarily in water and the sky, that Dragons have ears much like dolphins. smile I have also been thoroughly entertained by this earwax analogy. Thank you. lol

I have also been learning far too much German, apparently. I keep capitalizing my nouns.

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

Chapter 7 has been posted. Yay! I've gotten quite a few comments on doing more show and less tell, so please let me know if there are improvements there. smile

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43 Reply by njc

Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

Of possible interest, for the process of self-discovery--  https://books.google.com/books?id=HWr8AgAAQBAJ&pg=PT28&lpg=PT28&dq="that+action+is+suffering+and+suffering+action"&source=bl&ots=ybESpuSpLO&sig=Uu6E9qxTpZYhDrEhLBRe4hh-mXs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDQQ6AEwCGoVChMI68qb1ffUyAIVCxg-Ch3RUQ_Z#v=onepage&q=%22that%20action%20is%20suffering%20and%20suffering%20action%22&f=false

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44 Reply by Elisheva Free (edited by Elisheva Free 2015-10-22 21:34:10)

Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

Very intriguing, njc. Thanks!

So, I have a question. How do you decide what chapter comes next? At the moment, I have three different events to write and all of them are happening roughly around the same time. These events are centered around Maya, Vierra, and Dea, respectively, but now that I've broken the back and forth between Dragons and girls, I'm not sure what comes first. hmm

I just wrote a chapter from Vierra's PoV, but I'm not sure if I should continue with her PoV or change to Maya or Dea? (Noi is out of the picture for a little bit, unfortunately)

-Elisheva

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

Vierra will be on her own for a long while, so yes, her PoV is needed. Noi and Maya's storylines will join soon and I've already written a good portion of it from Maya's PoV, so I don't think I'm changing anything there. Dea's PoV isn't necessarily needed, but if I exclude her then I miss out on the opportunity to do a non-human PoV.

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

KHippolite wrote:

Is there enough about Vierra to punt her into her own story?

Probably, but I don't think it would work with the way I want to write it. At some point, Vierra is going to be the political side to Noi and Maya's "adventures" (can't think of another word right now). Right now is probably the most split-up my characters are going to be. Maya and Noi come together with some other yet-to-be-introduced characters, then some time after that, Dea wiggles her way into either Maya's or Vierra's storyline (I haven't decided which direction to go just yet). So, eventually, there will only be two storylines to follow and play off of each other.

I hope I'm making at least a little bit of sense. hmm

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

KHippolite wrote:

Any political narrative could use a fluffy dragon for levity.

Haha, then it's official. Dea will be joining the Viyebar parade. =P

Maybe I'll write Maya's events first, then Dea's. We will see...

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48 Reply by njc (edited by njc 2015-10-23 00:02:19)

Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

Elisheva Free wrote:

Very intriguing, njc. Thanks!

So, I have a question. How do you decide what chapter comes next? At the moment, I have three different events to write and all of them are happening roughly around the same time. These events are centered around Maya, Vierra, and Dea, respectively, but now that I've broken the back and forth between Dragons and girls, I'm not sure what comes first. hmm

I just wrote a chapter from Vierra's PoV, but I'm not sure if I should continue with her PoV or change to Maya or Dea? (Noi is out of the picture for a little bit, unfortunately)

-Elisheva

At the moment I'm rewriting, not writing.  However ... sometimes I have something I want to get down, even if only in sketch, so that I don't lose it.  (See my Book II).  Otherwise, I have at least a rough map of threads and either pick the one with that I'm most ready to do or the one that has the fewest open questions.

A rule of design: Solve the hardest problems first, while you have the most open choices.  You may not be able to complete that part of the design, but use as many of your unforced choices as you need for the hardest problems.  That will force and constrain other choices, but since the subsequent problems are easier, you will need fewer degrees of freedom for them.  Once in a while, you'll have to backtrack, but that's what design is about.

But maybe the question isn't what you write first, but what you place first.  I'll have to think about that.

If you have time, and if you don't mind reading a very intense real-life war story, you might profit from reading House to House.  The first-person author is SSgt David Bellavia, but he had a very solid professional writer working with him.  The structure of tension and release is almost symphonic.  I'm nowhere near achieving that, but it's something to strive for.

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

njc wrote:

At the moment I'm rewriting, not writing.  However ... sometimes I have something I want to get down, even if only in sketch, so that I don't lose it.  (See my Book II).  Otherwise, I have at least a rough map of threads and either pick the one with that I'm most ready to do or the one that has the fewest open questions.

A rule of design: Solve the hardest problems first, while you have the most open choices.  You may not be able to complete that part of the design, but use as many of your unforced choices as you need for the hardest problems.  That will force and constrain other choices, but since the subsequent problems are easier, you will need fewer degrees of freedom for them.  Once in a while, you'll have to backtrack, but that's what design is about.

But maybe the question isn't what you write first, but what you place first.  I'll have to think about that.

If you have time, and if you don't mind reading a very intense real-life war story, you might profit from reading House to House.  The first-person author is SSgt David Bellavia, but he had a very solid professional writer working with him.  The structure of tension and release is almost symphonic.  I'm nowhere near achieving that, but it's something to strive for.

That really helps, njc. Thanks! I'm still working on a couple of Winston Churchill books, per your suggestion. I don't think I'll have much time for reading here soon, but I'll do my best. smile

-Elisheva

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Re: The Colorless Dragon Thread

New chapter! Yay!

I've been spending most of my time packing up my apartment and house hunting, so I haven't had much time for writing or reviewing. Hopefully I can catch up here soon!

-Elisheva

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