876 (edited by njc 2015-11-12 09:59:22)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Since you asked, in the review, I suggest something along these line:

“You didn’t answer my question. We’re north of the Shattered Plain. Binen is between us and safety. We both know that city is filled with crawling death that will find us eventually! We’re taking a big risk!”

Express this in IM.  Explain Melody's response also in Kha's IM.  Four lines, not counting a paragraph break.  In Dictates, same thing from Jaylene's perspective, maybe slight difference in info.

Straight narrative: (2 sentences on the Wolves and their history).  So now Kha was ... .  Melody was with him.  Jaylene was ... Their best fighter, Tazar was ... Conloth ... and Dresdorf the dwarf ... .

In the present tense: he's doing it.

Once he grounded and stamped the base into this loose gravel, he’d scan this hole and test if there was old magic here.
Kha swung the piece of sambas wood over his head and rammed it into the floor of the cave. The ground connected.
Something was wrong.

(Fleuron)
Jaylene falling.
Tazar fighting.
Kha (or his hand) and the Black Staff.
(If there is another reveal to be coming via Kaldar's memory, give us a glimpse of what happens to him; otherwise not.)

Begin the first chapter here.
Mandates:

Kha woke up to find himself laying in a simple bed with white linen sheets. The act of opening his eyes exhausted him. The lids sagged, too heavy to lift.
A woman’s voice ...

Drop this middle part.

Someone lifted his head and put a wet cloth in his mouth. He sucked it with the desperation of a hungry babe. A few swallows later, the world faded.

Someone turned him, running a damp rag along his backside. The chill made him moan. He didn’t want to be cold anymore. He was rolled back. Someone lifted his head with a strong wide hand. Warm broth appeared by his mouth.

Rephrase the first sentence without using 'someone' as the subject.  You're super-close in his POV; passive is appropriate.  So is 'Kha felt someone ...' or 'Strong, hard hands rolled him ....'

“Don’t gulp. Slow...that’s the way,” said a soothing voice.
Kha drank until his head fell away from the bowl. Broth dribbled down his neck.
The person with the cloth cleaned up his mess.

Last part: `Wiped him clean.'  Yes, Kha is proud and thinks negatively of the situation and the need.  But we're mired with him in his perceptions.

Stomach uncomfortably full, Kha drifted back to sleep.

Kha's mental state precludes so intricate a sentence.

Day after day, Kha was cleaned and fed, marking the passing of time by each shift of healers who appeared at his bedside. Too weak to talk, his mind recovered first. xxxxxxxxxxx A cold draft oozed from the single pane of glass as the world outside continued on without him and marked the passing of seasons.

Skip the middle stuff, or just say they talked.  He may not remember much, and you'll reveal the info later.  Even 'day after day' is a conclusion that he can't make until later.

One day, he heard a man’s voice. “Master Kha, can you hear me?” the person asked hopefully.

Not sure about the 'one day'.  If Kha is in shape to remember, give us a detail (cold, light, his aches); if not, 'hopefully' is too clear a perception.

So we're in the first chapter now, past the prologue.
I'm assuming that this comes after the Su Cinibre sequence.  If so, maybe you should have a sentence about some experience of it that's only explained when we read Acts.

His stomach was full but nausea threatened to make him toss up the precious food.
Friends were dead, but what about the living? What happened to Melody and Airen? What about Tazar and Drezdorf?
How did Conleth die? Did he suffer?
Dragon attacks were rare but not unheard of. Why was a dragon flying over the Earthwound at the exact moment that the Wolves decided to explore? How could a dragon cause a cave-in?
My team. My family. They are human, so I knew I would outlive everyone except Melody, but I never expected to lose them so soon. No one has visited. Where can they be?
Sorrow overwhelmed him. How was he going to hunt everyone down when he could barely lift his head?
Conleth died but I have to find the others.

Kha's weak, and this should be too.

Or ... maybe ... these are Kha's thoughts (more reflective), and perhaps some of his words, writing the letter.  Or we segue from the thoughts (at the start of a chapter or fleuronated scene) to the letter as he sets it down and sets out.  (Give us thought with the secondary effect of time and date, so we link to Jaylene's timeline.)

Next chapter: establishing shot that tells of his journey to Aerie; he is at the gate.

Okay, let's see KH tear this up.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I have two days off. Some of that time will be for writing.

Helluva week. Major overtime before Xmas, but it is seriously limiting my fun. People keep shooting each other. They are doing a major wreck-job on my ability to relax at work.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Day after day, Kha was cleaned and fed, marking the passing of time by each shift of healers who appeared at his bedside. Too weak to talk, his mind recovered first. xxxxxxxxxxx A cold draft oozed from the single pane of glass as the world outside continued on without him and marked the passing of seasons.

There's a Cheap Trick that might work well here: Start with simple sentences and broken thoughts and end with longer,  more literate sentences, the last one compound or complex.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I'm trying to approach it as a reader.  If I'm working with pieces, it's because that's what I've been given.  I'm not inventing a story out of whole cloth.  (See =Steppenwolf=, H. Hesse, the scenes behind the Madmen Only door.)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

amy s wrote:

People keep shooting each other. They are doing a major wreck-job on my ability to relax at work.

There's nothing like a family gathering for the holidays.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Channelling Bimmy?

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

K just told me to concentrate on character work. This is from a man who wrote an entire book just so his character could get pregnant and squirt out a child. I'm going to faint now.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

The character development that I see is not the character development that KH sees, and maybe not the character development that you see.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I'm game to try. it is an interesting challenge. I tried to put a brief flashback in Jaylenes story (first draft) but deleted it because Alda was a better beginning.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

By sharing a near-common prologue, you tie the stories together.  By italicizing it and keeping it teaser-brief, you use it to lay a little backstory, and hint at much more.

886 (edited by njc 2015-11-12 23:54:40)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Stasis (long hard 'a') achieved!  (Translation: we agree on what we disagree about.)

I too suggested character trimming in the intro/backstory material, but not so severely as KH.  Because it's a teaser for the whole set, and because I suggest using it to tie the timelines, I think we can name extra characters.  But KH has a point, too, in that we should be able to recognize the protagonist, and distinguish same from the supporting characters.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

KHippolite wrote:

Good start. Some initial thoughts... and you know that I don't hold back...

a) The chapter is paced in frantic mode. There are maybe 8 chapters packed in here. Climb -> Cave -> Chaos -> Rescue -> Aftermath -> change in casting. Yowza...
b) I'm familiar/comfortable with the characters but a new reader will find this an onslaught of names that whiz by in a blur and have no time to stick. Adjusting the pacing will help this.
c) njc says cut back like 60% of the event-dump. I say 95%. Give the story room to breathe, girl
d) in fact, I recommend you pick the most important three and make this chapter about them. Everyone else should be "the others" until chapter two. Important: A high-energy or high-charisma character (or both) needs to counter-balance Kha (Airen? Jaylene? Animal-Ears-Piorx?) You've got no synergy running against him except a brief moment with Anver. Synergy begats chemistry. Chemistry begats reader immersion. Reader immersion begats sales.

So my advice: keep the concept, toss the shopping list and run with it

Disclaimer(s): Haven't read Acts or Mandates. It can be a good thing. Or maybe not. Also, fantasy isn't exactly my thing.

Here's the problem, I disagree with K (and, by default, with Dirk who agrees with K).

Frantic pace? Kha is looking at the canyon - I know where they are. Then he and Melody have a nice chat - I don't know everything, but I know enough, why they are there and a hint at some greater issue/danger (Binen) - nice and gently. We meet Airen. Then they descent into the cave. And fade to black. [side-note - I have no idea what happened, but I don't care because this is what I call good tension - this doesn't confuse, it makes readers want to read on to get answers to the questions that just formed in their heads - as long as we eventually get a picture from all the POV's what had happened and how, she'll be right] Then I wake up with Kha - it's as if I had been hit over the head and feel like crap. We meet Anver. Nothing confusing about getting to know anyone/not that many names IMO - I feel like I have it all under control. Kha rambling a list of names? Still good IMO - he's confused, have no clue what the hell happened and what is going on. I feel that too,  because he is rattling down a list of names I don't know - except, I feel confused in a good way - I'll get to know the rest of the list as I read on, their names can stick to me then. (when K insisted, with others too, that I needed to cut the names in my first chapter, he was right - mine was confusing as hell, but on this one, I'm not convinced it's justified - I know no one except Taz-man, and found it anything but overwhelming or confusing, and I get overwhelmed and confused quite easily).

Give this chapter room to breathe? (8 chapters of room? kill me already) room to breathe = slow = boring = is this how the rest of the book is going to be, a drag? = take the book next to it from the shelf and give it a look. Unless we really, really need to know what happened second-by-second to understand the rest of the book, please, keep it to the point (as it is at the moment in my opinion). If anything, I'd reconsider dragging Kha's recovery out that long. But it has purpose - his recovery time = seriousness of injury = major incident, then he needed his staff to heal (good info/all good IMO/nothing too frantic, just getting to the point) and then ....

There was Kha's magic staff, then an Earthwound, then a hint at old magic, then a Black Staff! Great stuff. What the hell happened? Where are the rest of the Wolves, did they even make it?!!! = dammit, I'm not going to sleep even if it's 1am - I want to know, and there's only one way to do it - read on. This is what you want from a first chapter, isn't it, pull the reader in and don't bore them to death trying to do so?

Kha needs a counter-balance? K, weren't you listening? BLACK STAFF, mate, BLACK STAFF. WTF?! That's AWESOME!!!! Not for Kha or the Wolves, from a reader perspective, of course. And then I didn't think anything would be able to beat Earthwound, boy was I wrong. Oh, and Kha is going to look for the others? That was a long list. I'm strapping myself in for an epic journey.

So, for a first chapter. I give it a high five. Sure, the opening paragraphs/lines could probably be worked on a bit more to make it first line/paragraph material, but a total rewrite, slowing it down, cutting 60-95% and all the other 'problems'? I disagree. Get to the point of the book already. So if it's not going to be about Kha finding the others and finding heaps of trouble along the way, then yes, this chapter missed the nail by a mile. But if it is, it gets to the point effectively and efficiently - nothing frantic or to confusing IMO.

So Amy needs to decide if she wants to get to Kha getting better already and on his way looking for the other Wolves and the answers to what had happened or if she wants to take the readers there via the (boring) scenic route.

Now, from what I see, it seems there is trouble to connect the different books against the timeline. I can't say anything with certainty as I haven't read the other books, sorry. I hope to get there one day.

I'm not sure this helps - I've also left a review too for what it's worth. Knowing me, I probably missed the whole plot. But then again, this is feedback from someone that hasn't been contaminated by Mandates or Acts at all. This was all new to me.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I forgot to add, I hope no one shoots anyone tonight.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

The reaaon to cut it is not to slow it but to speed it.

We have, in the three story threads, a handful of characters who remember what happened at Earthwound.  Starting each story, we should know what they know about the event that launches them into this.  And maybe we should know a little more, like the way their stories are linked at the start and a detail or two of what they will uncover.  We will learn soon that Kha was grasping the Black Staff, and both Acts and Mandates have early plot sequences revolving about it, with open mysteries about why Kha did it.  So putting it in time sequence without letting any of the other secrets out would prime the reader for the early events without letting anything big out.

But, IMO, we don't want to make this a full chapter.  It's backstory, and should be abbreviated.  It gets us to the start of the journey, and there are questions yet to be answered.  "What happened then, well that's the play ..."

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

janet reid wrote:

Disclaimer(s): Haven't read Acts or Mandates. It can be a good thing. Or maybe not. Also, fantasy isn't exactly my thing.

You haven't read Acts?  Read it.  It's a whopping good story.  There are a few chapters near the beginning that read too slowly, but after that it's a roller-coaster.  And there's a romance involved--ROMANCE--and lots of hard-to-spot clues.  Primo stuff, and not typical fantasy.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I've read this thread twice and I'm still trying to figure what to do. I absolutely agree with previous posts that Jaylene needs to be talking to Kha rather than Melody. Jaylene gets mentioned in the other book, while Melody is a side character for now.

I agree that a common prologue or starting point to each story that links it to the Earthwound is a fabulous idea. I've underplayed the concept thus far because the answer isn't going to be found in these books (rather than making the Earthwound the focus and then failing to deliver) No one except Airen remembers what happened and Kha won't believe her in the beginning.

I agree that there can be clues in each prologue that forces a person to go back and reference the material.

I agree that the magic has to be established in the first paragraph so that the reader knows this is a fantasy world. Elisha did it. One other that I've read has done it. I'm still working on that skill.

I agree that it needs to be trimmed. It seemed to wander IMO, but I got all the necessary info into the chapter. And I got to put Kha into a diaper. Nothing makes me happier than making that man squirm.  It is one of my true delights in life.

Janet, I'd love for you to read the romance parts of my story. I didn't manage to get the bubba-hubba-bang-bang parts written. It's more like mind-games-pet-pet-smooch (and then curtain goes black). However, I'm pretty proud of Kat and Anver as they figure out they are a couple.  If you want, I'll figure out which parts are juicy and have you read them out of sequence.

Either way, I'm going to make a try to satisfy the limitations that you guys have placed before me. As I said before, what is a couple more thousand words? 

First a review or two as thanks for you guys.

A

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Oh, take a look at the pic on my profile. It's the look on Faulter's face when he realizes that Zyrtec stole his left boot again and that all the buttons are missing from his coat. My husband drew it on a Denny's placemat. Hence the pic of pumpkin pie in the background.

893

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Your husband's a talented guy!!

Let's keep talking about the prologue.  The author of =The Little Prince= was also a pioneer aviator who famously said, "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add but when there is nothing left to take away."  (I need to take his advice more.)

894 (edited by njc 2015-11-13 16:48:51)

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

I've done a cursory check.  Depending on the source, the curtsey (spelling varies) may be accompanied by a bowing of the head, or the head bow is considered part of the basic movement.  So the head bow isn't wrong, but it may be an ancillary obeisance.  And since Melayne was taught it as a child, in case she had to face royalty, I expect she would have been taught it with the head bow.

In ballet, the bow extends to the shoulders, with the arms bending toward each other.  (But this isn't ballet.)

Oh, channeling Bimmy: There's an ad running on WFAN (NYC's original sports radio) for a plumbing supply house: "Are you suffering from frozen nipples?  From your nipples to your ballcocks ...."

(Oops, wrong thread.  Well, let it be.)

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

amy s wrote:

I agree that it needs to be trimmed. It seemed to wander IMO, but I got all the necessary info into the chapter. And I got to put Kha into a diaper. Nothing makes me happier than making that man squirm.  It is one of my true delights in life.

Poor Kha.  (Weeps bitterly.)

Now that that's out of the way, I think you've got a lot in there that you don't need.  You don't need to tell a story, you need to set a stage.  You may need a short story to do it, but it should be a short short-short.  The ideal would be to fit it on one page with space left over.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

njc wrote:

It's backstory, and should be abbreviated.  It gets us to the start of the journey, and there are questions yet to be answered.  "What happened then, well that's the play ..."

If it's backstory, then it's not the start of the novel. That much I can say. The novel needs to start, well, at the start. (I know, I know, I'm really clever sometimes, and helpful - not).

I hope I'll have time to read Acts at least. But at this stage, I can only review/read so much if I want to also write. Apart from not being able to really contribute, most of the time, I have no idea what you guys are talking about in the forums too.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

amy s wrote:

Oh, take a look at the pic on my profile. It's the look on Faulter's face when he realizes that Zyrtec stole his left boot again and that all the buttons are missing from his coat. My husband drew it on a Denny's placemat. Hence the pic of pumpkin pie in the background.

Wow, that's good!!!! I can't sing or draw to save my life.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

janet reid wrote:

Apart from not being able to really contribute, most of the time, I have no idea what you guys are talking about in the forums too.

What happened then, well that's the play ... .  Skip to about 2:20 if you like.

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Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

janet reid wrote:

If it's backstory, then it's not the start of the novel. That much I can say. The novel needs to start, well, at the start. (I know, I know, I'm really clever sometimes, and helpful - not).

Hence, saith I, it is stage-setting, and not full-blossom narrative.

Re: Acts/ Dictates/ Mandates/ Mantle - Amy's Thread

Janet Reid wrote:

Apart from not being able to really contribute, most of the time, I have no idea what you guys are talking about in the forums too.

That's never stopped me.