Search options

So, you're saying Joe Abercrombie's books, which you enjoyed 90%, are "derivative crap?" If not, can you give a specific example of "derivative crap." The titles of some books, I mean.

Actually, I think you have it backward: genres are not defined by audiences; rather, publishers know who the audience of a given genre will be, which is why they consider genre essential: it gaurantees readership. If genre were defined by audience, one might simply say: “Mysteries are books which people who like mysteries want to read,” which is not very helpful in defining what mystery intrinsically is.

What actually defines genre is not a given audience but the expectations of the audience a given genre naturally has. A genre is nothing more than a label that says what a book contains, just like a label on food. Chocolate chip ice cream contains chocolate chips. So, if you want to write romance, you better have some steamy sex; mystery must have, well, a mystery, something for the MC to solve; action must have action; etc.  You must have these points because that's what the audience expects. Otherwise, if you label a book “horror” and the book is about cooking pancakes, you will have a very dissatisfied audience indeed. Just as ice cream labeled “chocolate chip” but containing none of the titular entities will surely disappoint.

So, knowing your book’s genre can be as simple as asking which of the features the collective group of all literary genres contain does your book contain, then determining which is most prominent. Then again, you must consider limiters. For example, if you label your book “historical fiction” and it's full of dragons and dwarfs you will annoy your audience supremely: historical fiction does not involve dragons and dwarves.

So, to determine the genre of one's own book, you have to simply ask some qualifying questions. Such as:

Does it take place in our world or another world?

In the past or the future?

Does it involve magic and magical beings?

Etc. 

As for you book specifically, you might check this thread. The consensus seems to confirm what I would also say, based on my brief encounter with your work: It's fantasy.

https://www.writingforums.org/threads/d … ic.149509/

I said agents specialize in specific genres, plural, not "one genre" as you indicate above. So your list only proves my point: those are the genres in which those agents specialize.

But again, what's important is simply that if you have no idea what your genre is and you don't state what it is in your query, your chances of an agent asking for pages are severely diminished. Remember that a book is a package deal, now more than ever. For an agent to spend her precious time looking at your book she needs to know from the outset that it is something she can really sell. That means it needs to hit a number of essential points; genre is one of those points. As for genre, it too must hit certain points, i.e., the criteria for that genre. To assume that your writing and your query are so marvelous that they'll simply blow any agent away without consideration for the practical aspects of how it will be sold and marketed is a bit arrogant, and really quite foolish. If you are serious about getting published, you probably want to use every tool at your disposal. Genre is one of those tools.

But listen, I'm not here to argue. I'm sorry if I've put a bee under your bonnet. It certainly isn't my intention. If you disagree with the way I see things, and with the importance of knowing your genre from the start, I've no problem with that. Maybe you're right and I'm full of stuff and nonsense. Probably so. But I have worked in the belly of the beast; I have some idea what I'm talking about.

Where on Earth did I say you don't know the basic facts? I haven't even replied to one of your posts in this thread. I suggest you read more carefully before saying my comments are not helpful.

Having actually worked in both marketing and editorial at one of the big NY publishers, I can say with  certainty that writing a book which fits clearly into a specific genre is absolutely essential to getting it published, because genre is one of the primary tools publishers use to market books. If you don't know your genre, if it is unclear to everyone, unless you plan to self-publish, you have a serious problem.

Can someone direct me to a recent novel, published by a reputable publisher, which expresses dialect any way other than via syntax and word use? That is to say: which highly modifies spelling, truncates words, introduces non-standard contractions, etc., to mimic the actual sound of a character’s speech? I read an awful lot, and I don't recall ever seeing such. If it's out there, I'd be curious to check it out.

See this: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-p … 59609.html

I can't speak to other definitions of literary fiction, but the practical definition within publishing is any fiction which does not clearly conform to a standard genre, which is not “genre fiction,” (i.e., mystery, action, romance, etc.) It is therefore fiction to be viewed for its literary and artistic merit alone rather than for any genre-specific expectations.

Again, one needs to examine the issue relative to genre and expectation. In literary fiction probably it's best now to avoid any dialog tags but "said" simply because that is what editors and critics expect: the use of tags such as "yelled," "grumbled," "shouted," etc. are to some degree pooh-poohed in the ivory tower. At the same time, a valid argument can be made that such terms are intrinsically weak because they rob the prose of some aesthetic quality; this is, of course, subjective, but I tend to agree.

On the other hand, in genre fiction, where NOT using "shouted" when a character did in fact shout is nearly absurd. I happen to write genre fiction, so I use for a dialog tag any verb which is a verb of speech. What I do NOT do is provide any explanation beyond that one verb: no adverbs, -ly or otherwise, no facial expressions, no "with anger," etc. This I would say is something the context alone should indicate; explaining such emotions really should be avoided.

My pleasure! I worked as a copy editor for much of my professional life. Most of our work had serious legal implications based on the use of punctuation, which vs. that, shall vs. should, etc. In such situations, the Oxford comma is no laughing matter, as our friends the milkmen have now proven it last.

BTW: Here's an article that takes a more  critical look at the virtues of transitional phrases.

https://kidlit.com/2018/03/05/avoiding- … s-writing/

Transitional phrases are one of those tools writers unconsciously use as a crutch. They seem like a natural way to move from one scene to another, but often as not, they only make your writing sound amateurish. Sometimes they simply can't be avoided, or can be tweaked to sound fresh. Otherwise, the best way to deal with them is probably not to simply replace one over-used phrase with another (i.e., “just then” with “the words had barely left his mouth”) but to stand back and look at your approach to writing scene transitions in general.

In the scene cited, you introduce the new event with the phrase “an explosion rocked the prison.” This phrase as a piece of narration is problematic in a couple ways. First, it’s as much a cliché as “just then” or “the words had barely left his mouth.” For that reason alone you should probably cut it out. But the real problem is that it’s pure narrative summary, (aka, telling.)

The way to segue into a new scene without falling back on a tired transitional phrase is to show the new event as experienced through your POV character, rather than simply telling the reader it has occurred.

For example, I’m standing minding my own business in some prison when somewhere in the vicinity something explodes. How do I experience that? Of course, it depends on various factors, mainly proximity to the explosion. But one way to approach relating my experience is like this:

Far from perfect, but I hope it shows what I mean. The reader experiences the explosion along with Joseph rather than simply being told about it. The fact it was an explosion at all could be expressed later or via dialog as above.

Anyhow, just my take on a very thorny technical issue. I hope it helps.

Deck