251

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

Underground Atlanta looks cool. You need to enjoy your history whilst you are still allowed to.
Following the removal of Confederate statues, there have been demands to destroy national monuments here in England, starting with Nelson's Column in Trafalgar Square. Liberals claim he was a bad fellow and deserves to be demonised and eradicated from celebrated history because he supported slavery. In actual fact he died for his country at Trafalgar and his victory in that battle gave Britain command of the high-seas and so were able to enforce Wilberforce's Slavery Abolition Act and eradicate the transportation of slaves, effectively killing the business outside of the USA.

What next? The Roman empire was built upon slavery... we should knock down the Colosseum, the Acqua Marcia, Basilica of Maxentius Constantine and Baths of Caracalla?

The Pyramids in Egypt were definitely constructed using slave power. Level those sites?

The world seems to have gone mad.

The latest great personally staggering smile development? People are calling to ban Gone with the Wind -- the book, the movie from public theaters! I tell you, the smelling salts are out.

Here's my thinking. Everybody wants control of the narrative, and for a LONG time, that narrative has been controlled by white men -- usually white men with money. I agree it's an issue.

The answer isn't to jerk the narrative back, and rewrite some new sort of half-narrative. The answer is to expand the narrative. Not dishonestly, giving the spotlight to the parts you like, but honestly. Easier said than done, where history has been lost to the archives, but really, people. It needn't be a competition. Just get the truth out there -- the bad, the ugly, the complex, the ironic. People can be both courageous and ridiculous. That's the truth. Just tell what happened.

My book from a recent survey class on American History reads like something out of the 1950s, Dill, and it's supposed to be the updated version! Every chapter is all about the white male history of the era. For example, "here's what happened in the twenties" is a chapter. Each chapter about what happened to white men is followed by about a paragraph each on what white women were doing at the same time; what Native-Americans were doing {usually men}; what African-Americans were doing {usually men}; what immigrants were doing {usually men}. ALL IN TIDY SEPARATE BOXES. And guess what? These little paragraphs are all about the groups' reactions to what white men were doing at the time. It's like the editors think if they tuck in a token "women count too, and here's how in under twenty words," they will have given an accurate history.

Meanwhile, none of that was happening in a tidy box at the end of the white male narrative. It was all weaved in, happening in tandem, pushing back and pulling in and inspiring and disrupting the white male narrative. The way the book writes it is remarkably segregationist, & it changes the way the history reads.

When I was poring through female history in the Early Modern era a few years ago, I found ALL KINDS of articles by women scolding men for untidy patriarchal behavior in 1600s London. They were in newspaper articles written by women, intended for all men in London to read by fireside, & they're long-lost to old archives. Those ladies had spirit! And the men often responded in kind, publically teasing back as if this was all very normal. The fact that we haven't printed the female voice doing this in history doesn't mean everyday women were quiet and orderly! It means people didn't tend to record the everyday female perspective in their history books, PROBABLY because they didn't want to encourage it. {I do realize we have books about queens. I'm talking the millions and millions of women who also existed, and weren't queens.} I'm thinking they printed the tidy everyday women, so the tidy women could act as examples for everyday women bold enough to read history in the first place, and that is what history remembers, for the most part. LOOK HOW NICE WOMEN USED TO BE. YOU LOT ARE UNRULY. {We have always been, I imagine.} As in, history has an agenda. Not history as it actually happened, but history as we've chosen to commemorate it.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f6/7f/a3/f67fa3a75c359c2b34ef7acb6dcfafe6--jane-austen-mansfield-park-jane-austen-books.jpg
http://www.azquotes.com/public/picture_quotes/b3/42/b3424b6e1ee9a6c7fe98e8844c9117e3/jane-austen-459791.jpg

My point being that we carve whole narratives out of the parts of history that work for our era's agenda. If we cut out the parts we don't like in 2017, we are doing exactly what history has always done -- telling our part of the tale, for future generations. I think it's a bad idea on either side: why revise the past? Just tell what actually happened! Including the ugly. Including the courageous. Including what seems wholly unmemorable to you.

I? Want the women in history acknowledged, unburied, remembered. Not just the suffragists or the ones who led the marches. Not just the Jane Austens {although good on England for commemorating her!} smile I want the quiet ones who dedicated their lives to home and family remembered. The ones who gave birth year after year after year, filling the world with the men we remember, and died at only thirty-seven, their bodies spent and exhausted -- remembered. They lived. They contributed. They have been all but erased. I realize it's a pipe dream: people want to remember the ones who fought in the public sphere, and that was {through no fault of their own} very rarely women. But I want it. However, I do not want a world where we have female monuments everywhere and no memory of the rest of history. What then are we commemorating? Women in a vacuum? It would be a fraction of the tale.

Here in Atlanta we have monuments to the Confederates at our State Capitol building, and a huge {extremely controversial} monument to the Confederacy at Stone Mountain {it's like Mount Rushmore, but for the Confederates}. We also have monuments to Martin Luther King Jr., as well as a museum and church dedicated to his life and work. We have little markers on random buildings citing, for example, the old Confederate Armory, or a place where Sherman passed; we have statues of African-American people holding hands for generations on the streets; a huge image of a phoenix showing Atlanta rising up out of the ashes; an active tour within Underground Atlanta -- the old Atlanta buried under the new. All of that {and more} is this city's voice, for better or worse. If we cut out a part of it, we are telling only a part of the story. Better to place the face of courageous opposition beside that of Alexander Stephens, than to erase Stephens altogether. Carve Martin Luther King's face on Stone Mountain. Find women in Georgia history and carve them there too. Celebrate how far we have come, and give the future a face to remember.

Burning monuments, banning Gone with the Wind, tearing down isn't the answer. Building up is the answer. I read Alice Randall's The Wind Done Gone and loved it. That's how to respond to what you view as romanticized history: add your voice. Randall basically stands alongside Mitchell's novel and says, "All right, but what if Scarlett had a mulatto sister?" How can she ask that question if we bury Gone with the Wind? And if we bury Gone with the Wind, we bury its feminist strength, its narrative to a Depression-era America, its representation of what that era valued, its voice on the South where it stood. The many, many, many moments within the novel when a granddaughter of the Confederacy clearly critiques the Confederacy. Which means we bury the potential to learn, to debate, to grow. History shows us the journey we've taken as humans -- the ugly steps, the courageous steps, the staggering steps we've taken to now. And to your point, we bury human complexity. I realize I am being wholly controversial when I say that I believe there were good people on the Confederate side, and bad people on the Northern side. And certainly vice-versa. I think people can be courageous and also quite selfish. All within one life. Black or white. Because people are complex. Good people in history have agreed to fight in defense of reprehensible things. That is a fact. I cannot even imagine what it must feel like here in Atlanta to walk by the State Capitol and see the monument of a man on a horse who fought to keep my great-grandmother in bondage. I believe it would cut me through to the core, because I would know that but for the fate of the courageous who stood up for right, I would be a slave. Nothing would have changed.

So I understand why the fight is happening: the monuments tell only part of the story. They commemorate a past from a single perspective. To commemorate that perspective on the lawn of the Georgia Capitol feels like an anachronistic insult to those many, many people who can claim an enslaved ancestor. The answer isn't to tear the monuments away. Put more truth alongside them. Let us learn the whole story. Every single monument is heaped with history. Heaped with the unsaid. So say it. Scream it! Add to the narrative. Challenge the narrative. Shake the narrative. Don't erase the narrative, or all we will have left is a sanitized version of a stormy, brutal, and in many ways remarkably courageous history. We will have only a part of history, which means we will not have changed at all.

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

I concur. History is the past. It is a matter of fact, we should learn from it, improve and move on. I hate the liberal movement that selectively highlights the trendy bits, demands retrospective outrage and recompense and then totally ignores the rest. Yes, the human race has a history for treating different ethnicities, people with differing sexualities and females badly... on the whole. 

The Japanese butchered their way across South-East Asia and the Pacific. They killed millions of helpless, defenceless people. Men women and children. Some of the atrocities so unspeakably outrageous that civilised folk cannot imagine that one human being could possibly do that unto another.

It happened.

The Germans committed unspeakable acts... genocide waged upon the old-aged through babies. etc, etc...  No mercy whatsoever.

These acts were committed when? Well, the leader of my country, who is still working today, was an adult, working as a military truck driver at the time.

This dreadful period of history occurring during a current working adults lifetime. There will be perpetrators of these heinous crimes walking amongst us even now.

And yet within that same adult life-time, the Germans and Japanese are now respectable world leaders. Complete impunity and immunity. It is considered impolite and rude to mention what they did.

The ACW effectively ended slavery within the USA. Should that not be celebrated, respected and learned from?,

The invaders of any country take slaves. In my country the Romans, the Saxons, the Vikings, the Normans... et al. They all enslaved their conquered populace. China? Russia? Built upon slavery. Ah, but that is ancient history.

Well, the within the adult life-time of the Queen of Great Britain, the Germans ran their factories with slave labour. Mercedes Benz, BMW, Siemens etc. The current German road network was built by slaves, with the dead mixed into the foundations. The Japanese built bridges and railways with slaves; many British, Canadian, Australian, New Zealanders and American POW's worked to death.       

We don't mention or remember them within the current liberal rhetoric. Not all slaves lives matter, apparently. The remembrance and outrage is very selective.

It would interest me learn just how many of those who would eagerly burn a ‘Gone with the Wind’ novel; burn it and ban it. Those who would tear down a Confederate statue or memorial for the sake of humanity; would like to, (or actually do) own a BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota et al… or maybe a Canon, Fujifilm or Nikon camera etc. etc. with a totally selective conscience?   

If we are tearing down anything that is considered offensive (iconic of, or related to slavery), then surely the actual companies that used slave labour are just as culpable as the works of art and literature, if not, more so?

History holds some terrible truths. Yes, we should face up to them. We cannot (should not) change history, we should look back with clarity and shape the future.

On the feminist front, I feel slightly privileged to have been born and raised in Britain. It’s by no means perfect, but I grew up; my formative years under a Queen and female Prime Minister.  Once again we have a woman Prime Minister. It is not strange and not unique. Throughout history this country has had many female leaders and many of those the most successful (Boadicea, Queen Bess and Victoria to name a few). My school Principals were women. I’ve worked for many female bosses and with many extremely capable women of superior intellect and ability than me. This country has recognised and celebrates many females in terms of artists, artistes, authors and heroines. My doctor of the past seventeen years is female. My long-standing bank manager and her wife are both women. I have a mother and had two sisters; I have a wife and two daughters.  I am proud of them all.

I have absolutely no sexist hang-ups pre-conceptions or agenda. Women as equals is all I have ever known. My father was a gentleman and respected the fairer sex. Not in a patronising way but from a natural admiration coupled with the instinctive sense that a male’s primary purpose upon this planet is to cherish and protect the females and children.

I was lucky enough to grow up in a country where female leadership was routine and normal. I was completely blessed to have been raised without alignment to any religion or religious beliefs. My dad hated the paedophile priests and vicars (his brother was assaulted, repeatedly by a churchman… it was common place and hushed up); and was appalled by the totally male dominant teachings and edicts in the Christian Bible.  I’ve travelled and seen that many other religions as well as Christianity teach male dominance and that the female is a secondary species, supplied by a God to the male for convenience; purely for procreation and domesticity.

At least the Ancient Greeks and Romans had interesting female gods. Female Gods on par with their male counterparts. The dark ages following the invention of the sexist Christianity and Islamic cults, has put us back behind those fairer religious times of four to two thousand years ago.

Cleopatra ruled the Egyptian empire two thousand years ago (a civilization that had flourished continuously for more than five thousand years at that point). Today in Egypt, with the surge of stricter adherence to the modern Islamic cult; a woman cannot rise above the rank of assistant head-librarian lest she be demonised. In some neighbouring countries a female committing the religious crimes of driving a car or accepting academic education or wearing cosmetic makeup is liable to be beaten, imprisoned or stoned to death (by the order of God, lest he be offended).

We are such fucking idiots, us humans.

253 (edited by corra 2017-09-12 15:36:30)

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

Piping good points above, Dill. We're in agreement, especially when you reference "retrospective outrage and recompense" (YES) and how many of those who want to ban Gone with the Wind own a BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota, Canon, Fujifilm, Nikon... (YES). "Selective conscience" is right.

At work, we had a RAGING LIBERAL for a while. As in, one could hardly move without finding him in their path making speeches about things that did not personally touch his life at all, but about which he was outraged. He reeked of outraged as a means to be a hero, if you get what I mean. I'm sure he actually felt something about the causes he talked about, and I don't disagree that they should be discussed even if they don't personally affect you -- but he was arrogant to the point of being irritating. It's like he enjoyed being the one spreading the enflamed message to people who didn't actually disagree with him -- so he could feel like a rebel. He would pick fights with reasonable people who completely agreed with him!

One day, he started screaming about Black Lives Matter {they do, I agree wholeheartedly}, and my friend asked him how many black neighbors he had, and how often he volunteered to help them rather than merely talking about it. This friend {a conservative independent} knew the Liberal lived in an all-white neighborhood, while he {the conservative independent} actually lived in an area surrounded by black lives, helped them move, helped them with their cars, shook hands with them as he left his house, etc. There was a piece of prime real estate beside him -- a new house opened up. Possibly the Liberal would like to walk the talk and buy up that property so he could live within the world he so passionately defended? Well, that shut the guy up! He didn't want to live in that neighborhood. There's a disconnect there, somewhere.

On feminism? I've experienced a bit of unpleasant behavior personally, but not much. I was touring a museum recently, and the tour guide kept speaking to me like I was twelve. I have taken a few college classes on the ACW, read several books on the topic, visited battlefields and sites and multiple museums, and this guy spoke to me as if it was adorable I'd be holding a notebook capturing notes while there -- as if I was a kid with a school project. Meanwhile, I'm making fairly intelligent observations throughout, I think? At one point, when we were touring one of the bedrooms of the old plantation house, he bent down from across the room, fingers wriggling like they do when one is calling a dog, and he cooed, "Come here! Come here, honey. I have something to show you." My mother was a few paces away, and said the look on my face was priceless. I don't generally hold it in when I have an opinion, but I was visiting my aunt and uncle at the time. They were native to the area and extremely Southern, and I didn't want to embarrass them, so I walked forward to see what the guy wanted. He grabbed me by the shoulders and placed me on a platform that was apparently connected to a mirror the lady of the house would have used, then spun me around, like I was a prop, cooing things like "see, so pretty, look at that" and other remarkably asinine things.

I don't actually find that sort of behavior worthy of a rebellion though. In the moment I do. I was furious. But once I'm away from it, it just falls into perspective. After all, he was just one guy, quite obviously old-fashioned to the point of near insanity, who had been tucked away in an old plantation house under the Florida sun for who knows how many years. I assume anyone would go batty.

The great percentage of men I've met are intelligent, kind, respectful of my point of view, and in no way offensive. My feminism tends toward the archives, ha ha. History, literature, and how much of the female portion of both is winnowed out. I feel so strongly on that topic I want to get on a soap box and make speeches. My personal experience with the topic is literature classes about women in literature -- filled with only female students and taught by a female professor; a class on the female perspective in American history taught by a woman and filled with only female students; the history book I cite above, separated into tidy boxes with one paragraph devoted to females; the appalling reviews I've seen of Gone with the Wind, which claim that she clearly stole the story from Tolstoy or that because it was written by a woman, it isn't relevant; a recent conversation with a man who declared that he'd never allow his son to be assigned Little Women in school --

Actually, I will make a speech on that last point: This was at work (bookstore). Apparently he'd just helped a customer find a book on his son's syllabus. He didn't know what Little Women was, and when my peer handed him the book, the title, the cover {women}, the very idea of it put him into a rage. He said he'd never allow the teacher to force his son to read it. It was an outrage! My friend agreed, and reported this to me proudly because he apparently forgot I'm a thinking human..

I said, "So you wouldn't let your son read it either?" He was outraged! As in, his voice was still offended at the very idea a teacher might assign such a book to a boy. He said he would never allow his son to be assigned Little Women in school, and he wouldn't allow his daughter to be assigned Hemingway, because "she wouldn't get it."

I was stunned! I don't doubt that men/boys would find Little Women boring: tastes are tastes. But I find it appalling that so many would squirm about finding it on a syllabus. It's universally acceptable for a girl/woman to be assigned Huck Finn (or Hemingway, by the way) for an English class, but a similar novel through a female perspective is somehow "less than." Why? Because the book is filled with women? Because it's about the female lot? What? Meanwhile, domesticity was the life of half the population of the western world (and certainly the eastern, I assume!) in Alcott's era. If the book is assigned to a student who kicks and screams through reading it, fair enough: kids kick and scream through Shakespeare, too. It's understandable they might find the book out of their comfort zone. But to refuse to allow your child to READ IT? Because your child is male? This goes directly back to what we're talking about above: censorship! Picking and choosing the parts of history we'll value and remember.

Well, when I called the guy SLIGHTLY OLD-FASHIONED in his thinking, he flagged the male nearest him for confirmation, and the message was exactly the same: Hemingway is for men, Alcott is for women, and schools should not mix the subject matter. THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS PHILOSOPHY. I CANNOT EVEN BELIEVE IT REQUIRES SPELLING OUT.

(I know you've also talked about not wanting to read Little Women, by the way. I'm not talking about you, Dill. I realize you're responding to a personal disinclination to read a book you'd find overly moralistic, preachy, and boring. Like Tess I assume. Personal taste. We read what we want in our free time.)

I'm talking about actually institutionalizing, with children, the idea that some books are for girls, and others are too much for girls, of the SAME AGE, and passing over a literary history as valid as the one the world remembers {the male one}. The overly moral, preachy stuff of Little Women? That's what females lived, at least here in America: their lives were saturated with the idea that goodness, perfection, catching a husband, and serving their man was their lot. BOYS SHOULD KNOW THAT ABOUT HISTORY. Otherwise we're institutionalizing censorship! They should know what women were expected to write -- the style that was considered their only public platform. They HAD to write like that. That's important to history, the way the female voice was boxed in and then panned for being in that box.

That's what I'm talking about when I say that I want the forgotten women remembered {above}. Instead they are shoved to the side, STILL, as they were in the nineteenth century. In our literature and our history books. You don't get to just NOT READ the books for school you find boring! If it's boring, maybe it's a good idea to experience that, to see what history experienced? Get into those women's history classes, gentlemen! It should be as mandatory as the male historical perspective. Even more enlightening? Would be if men took those classes voluntarily. My professor actually had to fight to get the course on the syllabus at all.

Rant aside? I've always found you receptive and intelligent on this topic, Dill xx -- never anything but. I've never once felt you consider me less than you because I'm female. I've enjoyed extremely rich discussions with you on history and literature, whether the topic is war or the "women's perspective." I appreciate that, and love that you so often choose books by or about women without seeming to even notice you're doing it. I never get the sense you're reading a book by a woman to check it off your list; you read where you're pulled because you're naturally curious. Respect. x

254 (edited by corra 2017-09-12 15:19:50)

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

I read that thread in the other forum, Dill, of last night. I want to say that I feel you took me under your wing a few years ago, as a writer, after our exciting first meeting smile and I'm a much, much, much better writer for it. I had the "tear it apart" reviews too, before I met you. The bewildering ones that made me wonder how to write, and how I'd messed up. I remember you pulled me aside and started actually teaching me -- honestly, remarking on places in my work that you felt might be improved, offering examples -- but never disrespectfully. Pointing out what I did well, and why. I've learned A LOT at your elbow, and hope to continue doing so. I know you will say you've learned too: sharing and learning together. I don't feel I've contributed to your work nearly as much as you have to mine, but the conversations are and have been tremendous. I love our Shred Thread: lots of great thinking and deep looking. At the mechanics of sentencing, how it all works, why. I value all of that.

I am assuming you will beta-read my novel if I ever get around to finishing it? I don't think it's my best work or even something I can expect to publish. I still feel I'm an amateur in SO MANY WAYS, and I've lacked time for a while to tinker at the craft. But I'm still plugging away on it, trying to learn. I conceived of the idea for the book I'm working on when I was twelve, and I don't know how realistic it is anymore. The structure is clumsy -- something weaved by a child who loved to write but didn't know how. But I feel I can't move on until I've attempted to shape something of it. They say your first project is rarely the one that works. I'm thinking I try to finish it so I can move on to the work that will get me started.

I find writing incredibly, incredibly fun. That's probably not obvious as lately I hardly ever do any of it! But I still love it as much as the day we met. The very act of telling a story and finding some way to tinker it here and there so it gets close to what I envision in my imagination is still completely absorbing to me. I love to share what I write -- as in, here is something that came out of my head that didn't exist until I crafted it. I often have to force myself not to write, because if I do, I will become wholly absorbed for hours, and days, and weeks, and ignore the less exciting obligations. I have to weigh the priorities, and writing lately often gets cut off the list. I can't write for an hour. I write for ten hours, and lately I don't have ten hours. I know I need to figure out how to write in the one hour chunks. That's my biggest obstacle. I see myself as a hobbyist. I lack the self-confidence to see myself as a real writer. But I think I will get there. Learning about the craft, from structure to sentence structure? SO FUN. x

Anyway, anyone who blocks you is missing out. A little fight now & then is good for the blood. wink

255 (edited by corra 2017-09-12 15:30:36)

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

Reading:

- Reading Like a Writer: A Guide for People Who Love Books and for Those Who Want to Write Them by Francine Prose
- A Separate Peace by John Knowles
- The Children's Civil War by James Marten (gift shop at Chickamauga) smile
- The Boy of Chancellorsville and Other Civil War Stories (ed. James Marten)

“I am reading six books at once, the only way of reading; since, as you will agree, one book is only a single unaccompanied note, and to get the full sound, one needs ten others at the same time.” ― Virginia Woolf, The Letters of Virginia Woolf: Volume Three, 1923-1928.

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

corra wrote:

I read that thread in the other forum, Dill, of last night. I want to say that I feel you took me under your wing a few years ago, as a writer, after our exciting first meeting smile and I'm a much, much, much better writer for it. I had the "tear it apart" reviews too, before I met you. The bewildering ones that made me wonder how to write, and how I'd messed up. I remember you pulled me aside and started actually teaching me -- honestly, remarking on places in my work that you felt might be improved, offering examples -- but never disrespectfully. Pointing out what I did well, and why. I've learned A LOT at your elbow, and hope to continue doing so.

I'd have said the same. Ditto, but the other way around. I learned far more from you than I ever gave back. True!

But that was before I became the vile poisoner of an ogre that I am today.

I made a glib comment in respect of an offensive post in the forum and that person descended upon me; immediately sought out my work and hastily 'tore it to threads'.

The lesson she was dealing me was intended to belittle me, expose a multitude of flaws within with my work whilst simultaneously displaying superior editorial skills and literary knowledge upon her part. It didn't work, the review is so beyond pedantic that it comes across as desperate.

I never believed the fairy stories; how in 'Red Riding Hood,' inside of the gentle old lady, beneath that facade, is a vicious snarling dangerous wolf with evil intent waiting to burst out.

I'm gonna have to revise my beliefs.

257 (edited by corra 2017-09-12 18:33:40)

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

I made a glib comment in respect of an offensive post in the forum and that person descended upon me; immediately sought out my work and hastily 'tore it to threads'. The lesson she was dealing me was intended to belittle me, expose a multitude of flaws within with my work whilst simultaneously displaying superior editorial skills and literary knowledge upon her part.

I tried to read her review of your work earlier, through your link to it in the other thread, but I just get a notice telling me to upgrade. I'm on a free account right now & can't see inline reviews. The parts of the review you cite {further, brighter, whilst} strike me as both misleading and useless. I've gotten the further/brighter suggestions before. They don't make any sense to me.

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

A few opening paragraphs of this story were given the supportive, nurturing 'review' al Karen van Kriedt 'tear to shreds approach' (after which it would be patronizing to say 'good work or 'well done'). Bearing in mind this piece has already received 7 regular reviews and 5 other in-line reviews which have been digested and incorporated. It also won first place within the competition that it was written for.

                                                Hardon
                                                      by Dill Carver 2015

"Maybe he really doesn’t know anything… maybe he’s kosher.”  O'Toole spluttered, fear weaving a tremolo into his voice.  He retreated further into the shadows.

Through broken shutters within the high roof, random fingers of light pierced the dusty air of the dilapidated warehouse. As the watery London dawn broadened into something brighter one such iridescent shaft illuminated the chair-bound figure and his tormentor like a spotlight upon a centre stage tableau-vivant in limelight and shadow. A grotesque scene with Kaufmann hunched like a huge toad over the hooded victim and doing God knows what to the man’s exposed chest with a lighted cigarette.

O'Toole froze as Kaufmann ceased his work, let the captive slump in his bonds and turned to face him.

“He’s the fuckin’ accountant,” exclaimed Kaufmann in his ‘up-all-night’ Cockney gravel accent and flicked the cigarette at O’Toole with enough force for it to shower his chest in an explosion of red embers.

“Accountants know everything because they are busy little bastards. If you want to know about the money… you speak to the accountant.” He balled his left fist and landed a vicious sideways jab to the neck of the prisoner whilst maintaining eye contact with O’Toole.

“You, my son, are a fuckin’ nuisance. A nonce… a passenger… a pest,” Kaufmann, rolled the last word around his mouth like a bad taste whilst his finger remained extended in a post cigarette-flicking accusatory pointer aimed between O’Toole’s eyes.

“And you…” O’Toole retorted with fading conviction, “you’re a maniac Kaufmann, you’re a bridge too fuckin’ far… you always go too far.”

“Well, I ain’t even started with this one, don’t worry about that. I’ll go the whole fuckin’ way and we’ll see where that gets us.” The savage commitment within Kaufmann’s rage caused O’Toole to buckle as he flagged and sat upon the packing crate that he’d backed into.

“I don’t know… I honestly don’t know where they keep the money,” sobbed an urgent and pained voice from within the crumpled canvas. “I don’t know anything about the cash. I told you, as soon as I realised there was a shady side to the firm, I reported it to the police. I know nothing of it. They keep me to run the legitimate side of the business, and I’m straight, a part of the front. I know nothing about the criminal operation. That’s the whole point of it… that’s the point of me.”

It seemed to O’Toole that although there was fear in the voice, the accountant was making more of a proclamation of innocence than a plea for mercy and the sobbing seemed likely a result of broken teeth and split lips rather than self-pity. He sounded truthful.

-------------------------------------------------------------'
REVIEW Cut 'n' Paste, word for word with no edits
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“Maybe he really doesn’t know anything… maybe he’s kosher.”  O'Toole spluttered, fear weaving a tremolo into his voice.  He retreated further into the shadows.

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

further? what do we have to compare it to?

Through broken shutters within the high roof, random fingers of light pierced the dusty air of the dilapidated warehouse

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

The sentence would be improved it it followed "within the high roof"

As the watery London dawn broadened into something brighter.

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

brighter than what?

one such iridescent shaft illuminated the chair-bound figure and his tormentor like a spotlight upon a centre stage tableau-vivant in limelight and shadow.

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

you've already got "like a spotlight". delete this

A grotesque scene with

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

cut this; it tells instead of shows you don't need it because the rest of the sentence shows.

Kaufmann hunched like a huge toad over the hooded victim and doing God knows what to the man’s exposed chest with a lighted cigarette

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

I feel this phrase makes the sentence too long. I wonder if it's needed.

O'Toole froze as Kaufmann ceased his work,

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

again an unnecessary telling O'Toole froze as Kaufmann let the captive slump in his bonds and turned to face him. turned to him? face him sounds too confrontational for cohorts

let the captive slump in his bonds and turned to face him.
“He’s the fuckin’ accountant,” exclaimed Kaufmann in his ‘up-all-night’ Cockney gravel

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

Cockney or gravel or gravelly Cockney Cockney gravel accent doesn't work

accent and flicked the cigarette at O’Toole with enough force for it to shower his chest in an explosion of red embers.

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

image really works

“Accountants know everything because they are busy little bastards. If you want to know about the money

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

what about using the phrase "follow the money" here?

… you speak to the accountant.” He balled his left

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

delete you could say "landed a vicious left hook" but saying "left" here is fussy, too obovious

fist and landed a vicious sideways jab to the neck of the prisoner whilst

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

an old-fashion version of while

  maintaining eye contact with O’Toole.
“You, my son

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

is he that much younger? their relative ages might be mentioned earlier

  , are a fuckin’ nuisance. A nonce

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

another old-fashion word but works, of course, if it's telling us something about your character. The whilst in the paragraph above though creates questions of trust in the reader.

… a passenger… a pest,” Kaufmann, rolled the last word around his mouth like a bad taste whilst

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

I'm starting to think whilst is a word you might use a lot You could search for it in your writing in order to avoid being repetitive

his finger remained extended in a post cigarette-flicking accusatory pointer

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

this image is difficult to see; needs clarifying

aimed between

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

too specific in this spot. Whose perspective are we in that it could be confirmed the finger is pointing between his eyes unless he reaches forward and touches O'Toole between the eyes. at

O’Toole’s eyes.
“And you…” O’Toole retorted with fading conviction, “you’re a maniac Kaufmann, you’re a bridge too fuckin’ far… you always go too far.”
“Well, I ain’t even started with this one, don’t worry about that. I’ll go the whole fuckin’ way and we’ll see where that gets us.” The savage commitment within Kaufmann’s rage caused O’Toole to buckle as he flagged and sat upon the packing crate that he’d backed into

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

you can do better with this sentence

“I don’t know… I honestly don’t know where they keep the money,” sobbed an urgent and pained voice

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

passive construction An urgent and pained voice sobbed from within the crumpled canvas.

from within the crumpled canvas. “I don’t know anything about the cash

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

hard, cold cash? Usually accountants have to do with accounts and transferred funds, not cash

. I told you, as soon as I realised there was a shady side to the firm

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

too many words for someone being tortured cut this phrase. bring in shady firm somewhere else

, I reported it to the police. I know nothing of it. They keep me to run the legitimate side of the business, and I’m straight, a part of the front. I know nothing about the criminal operation. That’s the whole point of it… that’s the point of me.”

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

too many words for someone in great pain. He'd be catching his breath. barely able to get words out

It seemed to O’Toole that although there was fear in the voice, the accountant was making more of a proclamation of innocence than a plea for mercy and the sobbing seemed likely a result of broken teeth and split lips rather than self-pity. He sounded truthful.

Karen van Kriedt wrote:

This is a leap. How well does O'Toole know the guy? How could someone with broken teeth and split lips not have self-pity? How could O'Toole trust himself to know if someone he just met? is being truthful or not. Too much of a leap.

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

I could review this review for hours and to pieces... but I feel that it speaks for itself. It speaks of it's creator.

Although I just can't help but highlight a couple that struck me dumb.

Karen van Kriedt says: hard, cold cash? Usually accountants have to do with accounts and transferred funds, not cash
Well if you read the story, this is a criminal accountant and they exist specifically to launder ill-gotten CASH into legitimate funds or wealth. 

what about using the phrase "follow the money" here?
What... insert a two cent cliché catch-word phrase that doesn't even make contextual sense?

I can deal with the idiot in her, but the superior editorial demeanor with explicit frank instruction, it freaks me out...  "cut this," "delete this" etc.

If I read the editorial instruction, and it was applied and incorporated, there would actually be very little of the story left at all.

If you read Karen van Kriedt 's own junk, you'll come to the conclusion very quickly that she has no idea how to engage a reader within the telling of a story. She writes clinically with stock phrases and her prose is sterile, devoid of any soul. She would inflict the same upon her victims. She could re-write the telephone directory and make it even less of a read.

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

corra wrote:

At work, we had a RAGING LIBERAL for a while. As in, one could hardly move without finding him in their path making speeches about things that did not personally touch his life at all, but about which.....

Great points here corra...  sometimes sexism is mistaken for patronisation. The tour guide fellow for instance; I bet he didn't patronize your mother. It is hugely annoying that he didn't take you seriously.  I've been places with my kids who are actually women now (23 and 19) and they get talked down to and treated as if they are dollies. I've seen it.  It is a human trait, I think it starts with those parents and adults who 'goo goo' talk to babies as if the child is not a fellow human being.

What I really hate is when people object to say, a female pilot. She may be the best person for the job, the most gifted and skilled, but she is dismissed as inferior assumed incapable by some, purely because of her gender. That's real sexism and I find it totally incomprehensible. Why would you demand a worse pilot simply because he is of a different gender? 

Raging liberals are so annoying, there's nothing wrong with general liberal principles but the ones that irk are those that jump onto other people's band-wagons and drive the agenda hard. That's an agenda by proxy, one that they don't really understand or that doesn't actually represent them. 

We all like to choose what we read and our selective process is driven by pre-conception and assumption. Easy choices. Syllabus or Curriculum defined novels are extremely important. I'd have never chosen to read Dickens, Shakespeare, Steinbeck, Twain, Orwell, Golding, Lee... et al if not for school. Other choices were more appealing and yet without the Syllabus I'd have never been properly introduced to the wonders of literature.

I tease with 'Little Women;' the truth is that I can't wait to get to it. I just have to read everything else in the world first. smile  x

261

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

What I really hate is when people object to say, a female pilot. She may be the best person for the job, the most gifted and skilled, but she is dismissed as inferior assumed incapable by some, purely because of her gender. That's real sexism and I find it totally incomprehensible. Why would you demand a worse pilot simply because he is of a different gender?

That's overt sexism. I agree with you on this!

...  sometimes sexism is mistaken for patronisation.

Agreed. In this case, it felt like both, if that makes sense. It felt like he was looking at me, and reflecting himself off of what he imagined, rather than what actually stood before him. And it's hard for me to explain how that's different from patronization when you've never experienced it yourself (I assume). But it's different. It's like when Atticus tells Scout "we must be nice to Tom Robinson" (or words to that effect.) Atticus is practicing racism, under the hat of paternalism. He is also being patronizing. It's not necessarily one or the other. The same with patronization and sexism. I feel that the guy reduced me in order to elevate himself: like, "here's a little woman, she must be helpless and empty-headed, I will get to be the person who knows the things and she will look up to me, how cute that she is so small, I will spin her." He makes me small, he gets to be bigger. He never sees me. Patronizing? Yes? Sexist? Absolutely. 

My mother and aunt? He didn't treat them better! He didn't coo at them, but he didn't treat them like intelligent beings. He aimed his sexism my way, and his tourist speech my uncle's way, and left the other two a wide and jolly berth. My poor aunt could barely contain herself after the first hour and fell over laughing in a stairwell. I was so mad by this time my eyes had actually become pistols, but when she started laughing I fell over laughing too. My mother found us there several minutes later and fell over too. My poor uncle was left alone with the lecturer, who barely noticed our absence! When finally my uncle collected us, he was red in the face with embarrassment, and we with hilarity! big_smile

I tease with 'Little Women;' the truth is that I can't wait to get to it.

You said "get"! So American. tongue

262

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

Dill Carver wrote:

A few opening paragraphs of this story were given the supportive, nurturing 'review' al Karen van Kriedt 'tear to shreds approach' (after which it would be patronizing to say 'good work or 'well done'). Bearing in mind this piece has already received 7 regular reviews and 5 other in-line reviews which have been digested and incorporated. It also won first place within the competition that it was written for.

I agree with her that your use of the word "whilst" causes "questions of trust" in the reader. I have always eyed you skeptically due to your British lexicon.

The rest of this review makes me scratch my head. In all honesty, I read it through and sat stunned for a moment, because the weird blend of authoritative delivery and bad feedback is so potentially misleading. She corrects you on passive construction without understanding what passive construction is. (It's not what she cites.) Her remarks on how we know the guy is pointing between the eyes don't even makes sense? The line "grotesque scene" is a piping good two-word set-up that creates a sardonic preview of the visual that follows. "Cockney gravel" is fine? It delivers the sound perfectly and compactly. "He balled his left fist and landed a vicious sideways jab" separates the two actions for the reader. Her suggested rewrite destroys the subtle choreography, altering the reader's experience to no logical purpose. The "leap" she cites at the end? You are showing rather than telling by having him exercise intuition? And the guy under torture not indicating self-pity? THAT IS THE CHARACTER? I could go on. (I mean "on" like "further," where I was previously. Before that, I was brighter. By the way, you clearly meant brighter than the watery London dawn.)

All of that might be pardonable if she delivered it with a note of humility. We're all works in progress: no shame in that. Just say so! But I sense a weird patronizing note coupled with the feedback. From what I can see above, 1) she doesn't finish the story 2) she doesn't comment on content or the story as a whole 3) she uses lines like "fussy" and "you can do better" rather than providing helpful analysis and examples. 4) the tone of the whole review is curt. The fact that she doesn't appear to have finished the story in particular irritates me: it's like she's subtly telling you that the many "mistakes" she found in your first few paragraphs make reading the rest a tax on her time. But the story is excellent!

I don't know the woman from anyone, but I can see why this would make you angry. You can see it for what it is, but a newer writer might be thrown. In my opinion, she should change her reviewing style and start sharing, listening, and learning, rather than instructing. She isn't skilled enough yet to instruct, and pretending she is could seriously throw off new writers. There's no shame in being in the early stages as a writer, and saying so within a review.

(Whilst.)

263

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

corra wrote:

- The Boy of Chancellorsville and Other Civil War Stories (ed. James Marten)

In my copy of this book, "Chancellorsville" is spelled "Chancellorville" on the cover and within the table of contents. I was feeling rather smug for having noticed, & considered writing the editor, but I reached the actual story "The Boy of Chancellorville" within the anthology last night, and the editor introduces it with a note explaining that in the ACW days, people spelled "Chancellorsville" without the s. That's a new ACW fact! big_smile xx

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

corra wrote:
corra wrote:

- The Boy of Chancellorsville and Other Civil War Stories (ed. James Marten)

In my copy of this book, "Chancellorsville" is spelled "Chancellorville" on the cover and within the table of contents. I was feeling rather smug for having noticed, & considered writing the editor, but I reached the actual story "The Boy of Chancellorville" within the anthology last night, and the editor introduces it with a note explaining that in the ACW days, people spelled "Chancellorsville" without the s. That's a new ACW fact! big_smile xx

Times change, people change. Impetuous corra, who was prone to complain vociferously about cherished but dead ex tNBW members, or heartily welcome new members who'd been and gone several years hence... would have chewed the leg off poor James Martin long before digesting the editor's notes. smile big_smile

265 (edited by corra 2017-09-14 22:54:53)

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

corra wrote:

And then exploded the thread, to give us all something to think about!!

smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile 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smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile roll smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile lol smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile smile ....  http://www.pic4ever.com/images/treeswing.gif

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

And there was me assuming that it was N. Korea behind all the shenanigans and disruption on the Internet. I forgot about the day when you took the wild world web down to it's knees! xx

267

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

Hey!!!

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5a/af/5b/5aaf5b3c5a80f9fbb77f98f0aeedaecd--emoji-faces-smiley-faces.jpg

268

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

Charles Frazier is coming out with another novel in Spring 2018: a story about the wife of Jefferson Davis. I'm looking forward to it!

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36269436-varina

269 (edited by corra 2017-09-26 00:25:10)

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

Dill Carver wrote:
corra wrote:

{You should write an ACW novel...}

Once I've done the complete ACW trail battlefield tour and spoken to your mom.

I'd shy from the writing but I'd love to do the research.

By the way, I hope I didn't imply above that Mom wouldn't welcome a conversation with you. Only that she'd shy from being seen as an expert.  I may have left you with the impression at some point that she is the fount of all ACW knowledge because for me she is. She inspired me to learn about it because it excites her. We share a passion for it, and I owe that to her. But she strongly protests the idea that she knows much. She wants to know much. I'd say we three share that. x

I think you're extremely knowledgeable on the ACW, Dill. I seem to be hobbling along at a snail's pace, gathering bits as I chaotically research between other books, homework, work, Margaret Mitchell research (my true calling, for whatever it is worth!), and writing. Maybe we all know more on the ACW than we realize. I feel that I know a basic bit -- certainly more than the summaries in text books, but no where near enough to be called an expert.

Mom is especially interested in the Lincoln administration and Lincoln's life. My interest pulls to the South and the female experience there (including Mary Todd Lincoln). Today I researched a bit on the mountaineers of East Tennessee -- the war in the Smokies. But I couldn't tell you about the larger story of battle movements or political conversation, beyond the bits I've gathered in books of the period, like Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass and Grant's Personal Memoirs. I'm a work in progress! It is a topic that enthralls me, and I assume I will eventually be a bit of an expert. smile

I have an acquaintance here in Georgia who is an actual expert. If you ever truly want to touch base on something? He's the guy to ask. He is a walking ACW encyclopedia. He actually did research for Shelby Foote! (The guy in the Ken Burns documentary on the ACW.)

Anyway, here is a big hug of love and good will and combined knowledge & lack of knowledge and growing ACW files. x

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

I was totally kidding when I mentioned talking to your mother; but of course she's an expert.

I do find the ACW very interesting. Aside from the accounts of the war I especially love the sepia Daguerreotype, Tintypes, and Ambrotype images. The first historical event to be photographed. I can while away hours looking deep into those faces and the backgrounds. Truly fascinating. I often recognise features within those characters which resemble people I know today... like we are all related somehow.

Anyway, I've just started to watch Ken Burns documentary series upon the Vietnam War...  Only 5 mins in, but I have great expectations. x

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

What am I reading right now?



Following a recommendation;  Louisa May Alcott’s first draft of Little Women

I know that you're proud of me. smile

272

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

Dill Carver wrote:

I was totally kidding when I mentioned talking to your mother.

I was kidding as well. About everything I have ever said. smile

I do find the ACW very interesting. Aside from the accounts of the war I especially love the sepia Daguerreotype, Tintypes, and Ambrotype images. The first historical event to be photographed. I can while away hours looking deep into those faces and the backgrounds. Truly fascinating. I often recognise features within those characters which resemble people I know today... like we are all related somehow.

Me too! That's actually my favorite part! And it's the reason I so love going to museums and battlefields. I love the feeling that I am walking where they once stood.

Anyway, I've just started to watch Ken Burns documentary series upon the Vietnam War...  Only 5 mins in, but I have great expectations. x

Master filmmaker.

273

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

(You can still get me to earnestly spill my soul only to find out you were joking! Jackass!) lol x

274

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

Dill Carver wrote:

What am I reading right now?



Following a recommendation;  Louisa May Alcott’s first draft of Little Women

I know that you're proud of me. smile

I WAS SO EXCITED FOR TWO SECONDS!!!!

I'm reading Ruth's Journey by Donald McCaig.

It's about a vampire who eats people who won't read Little Women.

275 (edited by Sherry V. Ostroff 2017-09-27 15:53:39)

Re: WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW?

I'm reading the first in the series of The Lymond Chronicles. This is my second try with this book. I've heard great things about the series. Even better than Outlander, so I'm told. Reviews from major news sources are glowing. I love the genre - historical fiction, set in 16th century Scotland, a handsome hero. What's not to like. Fingers crossed.