Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Dirk B. wrote:

SPOILER ALERT: Just so I can stop dancing around this topic, Connor's soul is that of Adam, and his companion is the glorified form of Eve.

I'd love to place Eve into Connor's inner circle, there to watch over him and to simultaneously work against the Unholy Trinity while pretending to be part of the conspiracy all along. That would give her a great role. She could wear a Mission Impossible-style mask that looks like Dr. Lombardi for the decade+ that she's known De Rosa and been part of his conspiracy; she'd also have to disguise her voice, but she's had a few thousand years to practice that. The reason Satan doesn't recognize he's dealing with a glorified individual in a mask is because Eve/Lombardi is able to hide the glorified element of herself using limited powers Eve received when she was glorified. Sort of like Emperor Palpatine was able to stand before Jedi and hide his true nature.

Since Satan told Romano at the end of book one that God's minions were forbidden from interfering as part of the rules agreed to between God and Satan, I'll need to figure out an exception for her that doesn't break the rules.

1. If Jesus left his glorified body behind to become a man, then perhaps so can Eve. In Philippians 2:7 it says that He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave. Angles can look like regular people. So, why not Eve? In fact, Satan might say "That really looks like Eve but there's no glory on her. It can't be her."
2. Can you use Adam and Eve's children instead of Adam and Eve? These, obviously, are the children never mentioned in the Bible and there isn't consensus on how many they did have. Adam lived a LONG time and I don't know how many children he had.
3. Be careful since it can sound New-Age-Ish if you're sharing people's souls.

1,077 (edited by George FLC 2024-03-21 19:23:36)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Dirk B. wrote:

Think of it as Siamese souls. Inseparable, but two personalities, two individual experiences, and a shared brain from Connor's body. Although Connor and Adam will be able to communicate and cooperate, I decided I prefer them to remain two beings sharing one soul. Initially, Connor's body is born with Adam's soul, except Adam is asleep. Baby Connor sets up shop in the same soul, and he doesn't know about Adam. Connor lives his life "normally" (heh) aside from being the son of Satan and, therefore, the Antichrist.


And just to make it interesting, I'll say that only one of Connor or Adam will remain for the rest of eternity. :-)

George's head is probably spinning right about now.

Did I answer your question, Kdot? lol

Have you seen the pics of the two headed girl? It's really odd but true. I'd rather you have Connor and Adam not share minds but share their emotions. It seems simpler to me. They can have mental arguments but still feel the same thing... I guess. I don't have any experience with this so I'm arm waving a lot.

I thought retirement was supposed to be easy. Stop spinning my head!!!

1,078 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-22 09:08:33)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

George wrote:

1. If Jesus left his glorified body behind to become a man, then perhaps so can Eve. In Philippians 2:7 it says that He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave. Angles can look like regular people. So, why not Eve? In fact, Satan might say "That really looks like Eve but there's no glory on her. It can't be her."
2. Can you use Adam and Eve's children instead of Adam and Eve? These, obviously, are the children never mentioned in the Bible and there isn't consensus on how many they did have. Adam lived a LONG time and I don't know how many children he had.
3. Be careful since it can sound New-Age-Ish if you're sharing people's souls.


1. What would Eve become if she left her glorified body? Do I make a special case out of her rather than simply stating she returned to Earth? Is she given a normal body for the duration of her second time on Earth? Where would she get that body? By being reborn? Also, what's the point from a story-telling perspective? It would also raise the question of whether Jesus too will shed his glorified body when he comes back. And let's not forget, Jesus's body was glorified while he was still on Earth. Therefore, glorified bodies can exist here.
2. The story wouldn't work unless I use Adam & Eve. After all, they are responsible for the disaster that befell mankind (naturally, Satan is also to blame).
3. These are totally unique circumstances, so Adam developing a multiple personality-like division within himself doesn't seem New Ageist depending on how I describe it. Since Connor never had a soul of his own, he technically doesn't exist. Or you could think of Connor as merely another of Adam's personas.

Christians believe that what makes us truly human is the soul. So who's to say a person with multiple personalities is an illness of the mind? Why not simply a reflection of multiple personalities in the soul, which arise for reasons we don't know? To me the most interesting cases of multiple personality disorder are the ones where each personality is a unique, fully functioning persona. Which of them is the real person, driven by the soul? And why are they so fully functional if only one of them is driven by the soul? Why is the latter personality sometimes indistinguishable from the others?

Or I can simply state that Connor/Adam are "like" someone with multiple personalities. The explanation for it will probably be the result of however it was that Adam was chosen as the soul of Connor. Perhaps it's the result of Adam asking God to allow him to return to Earth. It's not something that's normally done, so the result of doing so could be the "natural" development of a distinct personality within the soul for each time you are reborn. Who's to say I'm wrong about that? It's not normally done, so I'm free to make cacas up. :-)

Since Adam's soul is wounded, God may decide to allow it, knowing that the mission will heal his soul. But, of course, the price of that healing is the formation of a second persona, without whom the mission would fail. Or, knowing that Adam needed help, God could have been the one to give him the second persona. That would make this the only such event in history.

Technically, Connor is Adam. What's weird is my story planning has led me to the point where Adam is also the Antichrist. I no longer recall if my original idea for the story included Connor having Adam's soul. Probably not since I remember being concerned that I had no good ending for the trilogy. Some will definitely say what I came up with isn't a good ending either. :-)

CORRECTION: Turns out I did always plan for Connor to have Adam's soul. That's why Mother Palermo (the one possessed by legion in chapter 11) told him just before her death, "You are more than you know."

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Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Since Connor never had a soul of his own, he technically doesn't exist.

Indeed. I see by the long write-up that you understand the implications of the arrangement.

Along the lines of Rey Skywalker turning to the camera and says "Actually, I've been Anakin all along" this is going to be a big leap for your reader to manage. You'll need to do a long of prep-work to help them bridge it.

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Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Edit: What I mean is, as a reader, I've been led to believe Rey Skywalker is acting under her own goals and direction. To learn she does not exist (eg is someone else) is sheer "Fight Club" levels of twist. Add to that, she's also in love with Palpatine but didn't know it. Oh and Palpatine is the local cashier.

It'll be some work to help the reader past this. I bid you luck on that front yikes

1,081 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-22 08:34:44)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

When you boil a frog slowly...

Connor will become increasingly erratic during book 2 for reasons he doesn't understand. At the end of the book, it's revealed to Connor that he has the soul of an ancient being, which he has been using as his own while that being slept. How's that for an initial reveal in terms of complexity? The reader and Connor will have a lot of questions, which Connor will ask. Anything that gets too deep into the weeds, I'll leave out unless it's important to the plot. Connor will also meet with Adam, where more is revealed to Connor and the reader. Again, Connor will ask whatever questions I think the reader might want asked without information overload.

The reveal will also tell him how Satan was screwed by his own terms of the bet. He asked for a soul for Connor, and he got one.

1,082 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-22 09:12:33)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

I don't know why it wasn't obvious to me sooner, but a key difference between Adam's soul and a new soul, had one been provided by God, is that Adam's soul is sentient, whereas a new soul is not (initially). I like, though, that they are forced to share Adam's soul. However, Adam doesn't want to share his soul with something (someone) he considers a parasite, which is a reasonable interpretation of what Connor is (yikes!). Adam intends to destroy him once the mission is over.

Better yet, Connor is more like a tumor. He's not a separate organism; he's an outgrowth of the story's unique circumstances. So, one could say that being reborn causes tumors, whose sentience comes from the sentience of the host. So, there will be another battle at the end between Adam and Connor as Adam tries to purge him from his soul. What a great way for Adam to think of Connor. How do you reason with someone who thinks you're nothing but a disease.

So, the hero of this story is a disease. How's that for a twist? I love it. :-)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

I'm impressed with your creativity with all this. But I'm still thinking about it. Not everything is warm and fuzzy for me.

1,084 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-26 07:37:59)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Cool idea: Satan used a rather unethical geneticist to make the gene changes that were needed to give Connor supernatural powers at conception. Satan somehow (details TBD) helped the geneticist home in on the correct genes, but those had to be tested on other humans to ensure Connor would not be harmed by messing with something as complicated as the human genome, which is a mess of genes that often perform more than one function each, and which are not necessarily related. Those tests went on for decades.

In doing those tests, the geneticist discovered that you could modify the genes that cause baby ducks to follow their mothers, except in Connor's case, Satan took Campagna's place, giving Connor a powerful, unnatural instinct to follow his father, which translates to him doing what Satan tells him, at least until the end of book one, when Satan pisses Connor off by telling him that deciding the outcome of the wager with God is why Connor was born (not love, as Connor had been led to believe).

Well, it turns out that the gene for controlling the aforementioned instinct also plays a powerful role in the human lifespan. You can enable the gene for the required instinct, but if you later try to disable it again, the human carrier of that gene will experience an irreversible decline in health (exact symptoms TBD), culminating in total death in at most two years.

The geneticist documented key parts of his work in a journal because he came to suspect that Satan would eventually kill him. That journal makes its way into Bishop Romano's hands, who shows it to Connor as part of their ongoing effort to turn him away from Satan. Connor decides to have the gene disabled at the end of book two, when he's sixteen, to break free, even though he'll die as a result. Coincidentally, Connor is eighteen in book three. Isn't it cool the way the timing of that worked out? tongue

Naturally, his long-suffering mother is devastated by all this but understands the need for it, and supports Connor's decision. Not sure yet if she falls off the wagon at that point.

So, now, Connor is in danger of being purged by Adam from the soul they share, and even if he somehow avoids that, his body will die anyway. So, he's screwed no matter what.

Gotta keep your main characters suffering. :-)

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Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

I decided Connor will be bisexual, although it won't come up until book two, where it will make a few eyebrow raising scenes possible. This raises the question of whether it is our soul or our DNA+nurture that determines sexual orientation. Since homosexuality is widespread among animals (who don't have a soul), it has to be the latter. I could extend that to ask whether it is God, our soul, or our DNA that determines our gender.

1,086 (edited by George FLC 2024-03-30 13:44:56)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Dirk B. wrote:

I decided Connor will be bisexual, although it won't come up until book two, where it will make a few eyebrow raising scenes possible. This raises the question of whether it is our soul or our DNA+nurture that determines sexual orientation. Since homosexuality is widespread among animals (who don't have a soul), it has to be the latter. I could extend that to ask whether it is God, our soul, or our DNA that determines our gender.

WOW! You don't fool around!

Be careful. A bisexual AC is interesting. I've heard that he could be homosexual but never bisexual. This opens up a world of discussions. Is that what you want? What do you mean by "it is our soul"? Is this the Choice option that Christians like to discuss? Could it be all three (soul, DNA, nurture)? If a boy is somewhat effeminate (DNA?) and has influential homosexual men in his life (nurture), and has a young man in his life that he loves (starting at brotherly love), does this somehow encapsulate all three? I've not had to think of this before so I might be stretching things a bit. Or messing things up! And now...

God? Three of the big religions (Jewish, Christian, Islam), do not support the thesis. This is a huge audience. Christianity says you don't have to die because of it. And I know that not all Christians have been very good about this. Ergo, for God to become the origin of homosexuality seems like a real stretch if not a contradiction.

Another possible issue is defending it from an evolutionary point of view. I'm not a pro so I would have to delve into this more.

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Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

For the scenes to work, Connor would need to be bisexual. He starts with a pair of twin, Goth girlfriends, with whom he regularly has threesomes, which worries Satan because Connor is supposed to be acting Christ-like. This is part of Connor acting outrageously to get even with Satan for creating Connor simply to settle the wager with God. He's also pissed off that Satan raped his mother for sport so Connor could be conceived, which is what ultimately seals Satan's fate.

After Satan send the twins away, Connor ups the ante by seducing a slightly older teenage male and bringing him into the Vatican as a lover.

> This opens up a world of discussions. It's that what you want?
Heck yes!!! Who wouldn't want their story to generate a lot of discussion?

There are two possible ways that a homosexual could come into existence. 1) God creates the soul and makes it gay. That in turn drives the resulting male to be gay. Or 2) God creates the soul, which has no orientation, but random DNA + nurture results in the male becoming gay. I'm ignoring a third possibility, which is that the soul has a "normal" orientation (say heterosexual for a male), but the individual's DNA+nurture somehow overrides the orientation intended by God when he creates the soul.

I extend that argument/question to gender. Do the souls created by God have a gender, or are souls genderless, meaning the gender is determined solely by ones more or less random mixing of DNA? If it's God who determines the gender when He creates the soul, that would mean somewhere in the process, He intervened to determine which sperm cell reaches the ovum. However, if the soul is genderless, then God need merely create the soul and rely on nature (more or less random mixing of DNA) to determine the gender.

>Three of the big religions (Jewish, Christian, Islam), do not support the thesis.
Which thesis?

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

> This opens up a world of discussions. It's that what you want?
Heck yes!!! Who wouldn't want their story to generate a lot of discussion?

:-) Oops, you're right, let me rephrase that! You brought up the possibility as to whether or not God created homosexuality. Why then create religions that oppose it? Judaism and Islam violently oppose it. Some Christians have also done the same. The thesis is that God possibly made a homosexual gender. That might turn people off.

I admit that I like the bisexual mix. I can see the AC doing heterosexual behavior outside of marriage and homosexual behavior. The Christ did neither. So, both the AC's actions are anti-Christ. I believe Left Behind has the AC getting a woman pregnant. And I've heard it taught that the AC was homosexual. But you mix it together. Interesting.

>>He's also pissed off that Satan raped his mother for sport so Connor could be conceived, which is what ultimately seals Satan's fate.
I'm of the opinion that the AC is so corrupt/evil/vile that he doesn't give a rip about his mother. Again, this is anti-Christ since Jesus loved His mother to the point of telling John to take care of her when He was on the cross. You take the Darth Vader/Luke Skywalker approach. There's some good inside there somewhere. That could be a tough row to hoe.

And of course, I'm taking this as close to what I believe as I can. And your story is your story. That overrides my opinions. However, I think many people will get turned off. It's hard for me to differentiate Connor with the AC I've expected.

I'll try answering more later...

1,089 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-03-31 06:11:19)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Book one will be pretty much what you read. So I think that will be fine. Book two's first half is mostly about the beginning of Revelation disasters, the Unholy Trinity's ongoing attempts to consolidate religion behind Connor, and Connor's issues, ranging from his anger at his father to his growing mental health issues as Adam grows increasingly awake inside him.

Since the books will almost certainly attract the curiosity of Christians who come across it, there will be a foreword from me that explains that this is not a story that faithfully follows Revelation, but rather a different story loosely based on Revelation.

Regarding God creating homosexuality, it's something I intend to explore through the lens of the Antichrist, who is trying to corrupt his followers. So, he will say all kinds of things that would cause serious Christians' heads to explode, but he's the Antichrist, so you can't expect him to sound like a good Christian in these books.

Although the Bible opposes homosexuality, there are all kinds of ways Connor can spin that. In answer to the question why God would create something he opposes, He opposes much of what humans do to each other and the planet, He knew it would come about, yet he created angels and humans anyway, resulting in beings like Satan and Hitler and staggering suffering for much of humanity.

And religions get a lot of things wrong even when they tell themselves their Bible is inerrant. If the Christian Bible is the inspired Word of God, how come Catholics and Protestants can't agree on what books belong in the Bible? They're only inerrant as long as you discount the "false" beliefs of all the other major denominations you disagree with. Lots of things for Connor to work with, and there won't be anyone in the books to challenge his corrupting rhetoric.

In a similar vein, the Catholic Church says teens will go to Hell if they masturbate. Why would God give teens the ability to masturbate, only to turn around and expect kids not to do so?

There'll be at least one chapter where Connor gives a lot of false views to the teenage boy he seduced, which is easy to do since the kid believes Connor is Christ. If Christ starts telling you things that disagree with your original beliefs, who are you going to believe, Christ or some ancient book written and assembled by fallible human beings? It'll be interesting to write some of that dialogue and put forth his corrupting views. And for what it's worth, they're not Connor's views either. He simply says the things he needs to to corrupt his followers.

As for your expectations of what the Antichrist is like as a human being, what are you basing it on? A few verses in the Bible? Who's to say he doesn't care about his family? Even Hitler had a family. And as I noted above, my story is only loosely based on Revelation, especially as you go from book to book. That's what the foreword is for. If you want to read a Christian-themed story based loosely on Revelation, great. If you want a faithful telling of Revelation, these aren't the books you want to read.

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Dirk B. wrote:

As for your expectations of what the Antichrist is like as a human being, what are you basing it on? A few verses in the Bible? Who's to say he doesn't care about his family? Even Hitler had a family. And as I noted above, my story is only loosely based on Revelation, especially as you go from book to book. That's what the foreword is for. If you want to read a Christian-themed story based loosely on Revelation, great. If you want a faithful telling of Revelation, these aren't the books you want to read.

There is much to comment on with everything you wrote. So, I will pick on a couple items:

>A few verses in the Bible?
I found a website claiming 25 verses on the AC. And they are all bad.

You said something a while ago that I've thought about - if I don't like my own story then there's a problem. So, write what you want. But you also taught me to keep audience in mind. I try to do that BUT I at the core of my Tribe story is something which will possibly piss off large swaths of Christendom. I plan to write about it anyway!

1,091 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-04-01 00:23:16)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

>>A few verses in the Bible?
>I found a website claiming 25 verses on the AC. And they are all bad.

Do any of them say he didn't love his mother? :-) Keep in mind, for the second draft, all this will occur on an alternate timeline, so I can mess with things without invalidating the Bible.

>I try to do that BUT I at the core of my Tribe story is something which will possibly piss off large swaths of Christendom.
Interesting. I don't really consider your story to have deviated much from Christian beliefs, although you would know better than I would. Certainly, all of the non-Christian gods in your first draft would have raised eyebrows, although they are mostly demons, so I think you'd get a pass on those, as long as you don't overpopulate the story.

Christians generally don't mind stories that drift a little from accepted beliefs if the changes make it a more uplifting pro-Christian story. For example, Jacob Marley (Scrooge's business partner) appeared as a ghost. Even if one said it was his soul that appeared, what would a soul be doing outside of heaven or hell? The Catholic interpretation treats Marley as someone in purgatory who can't get to heaven until he convinces Scrooge to change his ways. I don't think anyone would have a serious problem with his presence in the story, as written.

Same with "It's a Wonderful Life". An angel took the main character (I forget his name) to see an alternate vision of the future in which the character was present to watch but not interfere, much as Scrooge had to. How many Christians will object to the idea of angels with wings and the idea that an angel has to earn his wings? The idea of wings has been around since the 4th century but it's not in the Bible.

Not liking your own story would turn it into a real chore to write, and you would probably never finish. I had a very hard time finishing Connor v1 because I was burned out and sick of the story as far back as 2022. That's why I was considering making the three books into one, consisting of three novellas. But when I thought about it, book one alone clearly needs to be a separate, full novel. Based on my planning of books 2 and 3, I believe the same will be true for them as well. I was laughing last night as I reread my notes for books 2 and 3 on my cell phone. The notes just scrolled on endlessly. There are some duplicate notes, especially because I would write up notes for certain scenes more than once as I thought of better ways to write them.

To avoid further burnout, I intend to write key scenes of books two and three as short stories whenever I need a break from the 2nd draft of "Rise of Connor".

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Dirk B. wrote:

And religions get a lot of things wrong even when they tell themselves their Bible is inerrant. If the Christian Bible is the inspired Word of God, how come Catholics and Protestants can't agree on what books belong in the Bible? They're only inerrant as long as you discount the "false" beliefs of all the other major denominations you disagree with. Lots of things for Connor to work with, and there won't be anyone in the books to challenge his corrupting rhetoric.

In a similar vein, the Catholic Church says teens will go to Hell if they masturbate. Why would God give teens the ability to masturbate, only to turn around and expect kids not to do so?

Sorry for such a slow response. My head is finally above water. I'm not a theologian but I'll try to answer at least some of your comments. Jews, Catholics, and Protestants agree on the OT books. Catholics and Prots agree on the NT books. The apocryphal books are accepted only by Catholics. And they were written between the OT and NT. So, the Christian side of the Bible is agreed upon, 100%.

I'm not a fan of all Catholic teaching. Masturbation is one such instance. But your logic is flawed. Why did God give us sex but then say don't have sex outside of marriage, especially with abortion in the future? He is the creator and hence the definer of usage.

I don't know if any of this is important to you, but I at least wanted to comment on some of it.

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Dirk B. wrote:

Christians generally don't mind stories that drift a little from accepted beliefs if the changes make it a more uplifting pro-Christian story. For example, Jacob Marley (Scrooge's business partner) appeared as a ghost. Even if one said it was his soul that appeared, what would a soul be doing outside of heaven or hell? The Catholic interpretation treats Marley as someone in purgatory who can't get to heaven until he convinces Scrooge to change his ways. I don't think anyone would have a serious problem with his presence in the story, as written.

Same with "It's a Wonderful Life". An angel took the main character (I forget his name) to see an alternate vision of the future in which the character was present to watch but not interfere, much as Scrooge had to. How many Christians will object to the idea of angels with wings and the idea that an angel has to earn his wings? The idea of wings has been around since the 4th century but it's not in the Bible.

Very good points. I liked both stories.

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Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Also not a theologian but...

In a similar vein, the Catholic Church says teens will go to Hell if they masturbate. Why would God give teens the ability to masturbate, only to turn around and expect kids not to do so?

My mom (Jew) would say God also gives us the ability to murder with the expectation not to do so.
eg: Both are sins, but you have free will to engage if you really want to sin.

===insert devil's advocate part ===

Me (Converted): The specific passage in the bible is where the guy wastes his seed by spilling it at the side of the bed.

Genesis:38 wrote:

9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground...

10 And the thing which he did displeased the Lord: wherefore he slew him also.

The scene suggests God doesn't want seed wasted. So we get the rules that you can't masturbate and you can't use contraception.

Why was the Lord displeased? Was it really because of the spilled seed? Or was it because Onan was sleeping with someone else's wife?

1,095 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-04-06 05:04:23)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Regarding teenagers masturbating, since they supposedly have no need for ejaculating before marriage, why would God give them the ability beforehand? It serves no useful purpose. Murdering someone = killing someone, although for unacceptable reasons. And killing someone is sometimes necessary (e.g., in defence of yourself or others).

I don't know about Protestantism, but Catholics believe the Old Testament points forward to the coming of Christ. Verses take on a whole new meaning when read from that perspective. Some scholars think there may be more than 300 prophecies about Jesus, but it goes beyond that. If you know what to look for, much more of the Old Testament is believed to be about the coming of Christ, even when the verses don't seem to be about that. It's been too long since I read that, so I don't remember any examples.

So, the fact that Catholic Bibles include more books than Protestant ones means some of those prophecies and verses that point forward to Christ are disagreed upon by the two major denominations. They can't both be right, can they? If either one of them is incorrect, then billions of Bibles are in error. Given the many denominations in Christianity, especially in Protestantism, and given that many of those denominations arose as a result of differences in the interpretation of the Bible, that supposedly inerrant book has led to billions of people being led astray. Granted, the Bible could still be inerrant, even though most or all denominations (save for one) are interpreting it incorrectly, but what's the point of declaring the Bible inerrant when billions of Bibles may be wrong, and there is no consensus as to which denomination actually has the correct Bible and no way to find out so as to reach a consensus.

Just to be clear, I'm putting forth Connor's arguments, not my own. I may even have him declare the Bible to be full of errors at some point. He'll definitely espouse beliefs that conflict with the Bible, but he won't push the envelope so far that most people would conclude he's not Christ. He's merely using his arguments as a means to an end: follow him, not some ancient book.

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Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

(Disclaimer: My mom is also not a theologian, but I already know what she would say. If I actually presented this, it would be a 5000 word essay amounting to the same). I'll paraphrase her below for simplicity.

Regarding teenagers masturbating, since they supposedly have no need for ejaculating before marriage, why would God give them the ability beforehand? It serves no useful purpose.

Mom: OT says if you are married you stay married. If you're not married and you have sex, you are now effectively married (reference, Judges 14:7; Samson's first gf). Interpretation: So if two tweens have sex and ejaculation occurs, they must now marry (after the deed) or be stoned.

Murdering someone = killing someone, although for unacceptable reasons.

Mom: Murder = lake of fire
(*Me: It seems like there are exceptions such as murder by state, eg: stoning)

And killing someone is sometimes necessary (e.g., in defence of yourself or others).

Mom: You were attacked, you respond in kind. If they didn't murder you, you cannot murder back.
(*Me: But Abraham murdered the bandits who kidnapped his wife. Mom: Well that was okay because God said so)

1,097 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-04-06 04:34:20)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

>> If they didn't murder you, you cannot murder back.
Perhaps the only reason they didn't murder you is because you killed them. Perhaps nothing short of death would have stopped them from killing you. In book two, after Satan threatens Connor's family, Connor replies with: Just so we're clear, if you harm my mother or any member of my family, I will destroy everything you've worked for, and then I'll come for you, and I won't stop until one of us is destroyed. Just so we're clear.

With regard to sex acts before marriage, He could have suppressed the male/female sex drive altogether until marriage. The only reason the Bible requires marriage or stoning for people who have sex outside of marriage, is because God allowed them the ability to engage in premarital sex acts in the first place. Still makes no sense to enable it but forbid it. You would think God would have learned from the whole Garden of Eden debacle (puts a tree in Eden, then forbids Adam and Eve to eat from it). Here's an idea: Don't put it in Eden if you don't want them to touch it, especially when you already know they'll disobey, causing millennia of death and suffering.

Connor is still mad at Satan at the beginning of book two, and he looks for ways to piss him off. So, he starts talking about marrying one of the Goth twin girls he's sleeping with, But since he slept with both of them, who does he marry? :-)

Later, he asks the gay kid he's trying to seduce if the kid is a virgin. Yes, Lord. What the hell for? Connor then explains that if We had intended teenagers to abstain from all sex acts, we wouldn't have made you so horny.

I am going to have so much fun with Connor as Antichrist pretending to be Christ and messing with people's heads, especially the gay kid, who clearly believes Connor is Christ, as does much of Christendom by that point (two years after the end of book one).

1,098 (edited by Dirk B. 2024-04-06 07:51:42)

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

I sketched out part of Connor's seduction of the gay teen. It's pretty tame (lame?). In fact, Connor tells the kid twice that them having sex is entirely his decision. Although, Connor does add an incentive once he's sure the kid is gay: "If it helps, I know where all 63 erogenous zones are on a young, writhing, naked male body. And you won't find those on Google." Naturally, that worked.

I'll probably take out one of the aforementioned assurances that it's the kid's decision. Although, I would never write a scene where Connor forces himself on someone, he doesn't need to be overly proper about it, either. After all, he is trying to seduce the kid, both for sex and as part of his indoctrination.

One of the advantages of introducing a genetic switch in Connor that gives Satan unnatural influence over him is that I can write Connor as a little s--t, but it's largely the result of that switch, which he learns halfway through book two. Connor has an intense need to please Satan, like a serious addiction, but he doesn't even know he's addicted. Of course, that doesn't mean he can't get pissed off at Satan.

1,099

Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Don't put it in Eden if you don't want them to touch it

Is still an issue of free will. If you don't want them to touch it, move it five miles south (so someone else can touch it)?

Nay, why create it at all? If you don't have the tree, and there is no decision, everyone is happy, right? No one can disobey in the absence of options.

Yet, Lucifer didn't face such a choice, yet sin still occurred.

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Re: The Lord of the Earth - Dirk B.

Connor is still mad at Satan at the beginning of book two, and he looks for ways to piss him off. So, he starts talking about marrying one of the Goth twin girls he's sleeping with, But since he slept with both of them, who does he marry? :-)

I have my main with twins if I ever get around to posting. Though the girls don't remain twins for long because he got a lot of enemies. Sorry spoilers (but the story does nothing to hide this).

Later, he asks the gay kid he's trying to seduce if the kid is a virgin.

This could go south with the reader as easily as it could be a home run. My suggestion here is write where it leads but during revisions try to view it from all angles.

Connor then explains that if We had intended teenagers to abstain from all sex acts, we wouldn't have made you so horny.

Teens are horny because teens used to marry for most of human history. Back-checking on google, in 1610 the age of consent was 12. The act of 1653 moved it up to 14 (Women) 16 (Men)