The Next Big Writer — Rules for ordering adjectives correctly

Re: Rules for ordering adjectives correctly

null@example.com (njc) — Thu, 05 Sep 2024 01:32:06 +0000

Which is more extrinsic, size or costliness? Size is an explicitly extrinsic quality. Here, costliness is an attribute attributed to the trucks.

But consider "He loves rare, dangerous, expensive pets." The order is 'rare' (how many abound), 'dangerous', 'expensive'. We could exchange the latter two; the effect would be a change in emphasis. The adjective closer to the noun has the greater emphasis. That we can exchange them calls for the second comma. Why the first comma? The order "expensive, rare, dangerous" also works. The distinction here between the "extrinicality" (eek!) is not strong enough to fully mandate one order over the other, though putting 'rare' last feels to me weaker than the other orders.

Re: Rules for ordering adjectives correctly

null@example.com (Dirk B.) — Wed, 04 Sep 2024 21:23:49 +0000

Ick. I reread the article. Based on the author's rules, it would be: six expensive (a quality, I guess) large red trucks. No commas needed, but I prefer njc's order.

Re: Rules for ordering adjectives correctly

null@example.com (Dirk B.) — Wed, 04 Sep 2024 21:18:42 +0000

Interesting. I can't fit expensive into the list based solely on the aforementioned article, even though I know you have the correct order.

Re: Rules for ordering adjectives correctly

null@example.com (njc) — Wed, 04 Sep 2024 20:41:47 +0000

"Six large, expensive red trucks" -- The modifiers are ordered extrinsic (number, size) to intrinsic (color). Try changing the order. You can swap 'expensive' and 'large' with minor effect, but moving the others reads like a bad translation from Yoda. The comma feels right to me, perhaps because 'large' and 'expensive' are (mostly) swapable.

Re: Rules for ordering adjectives correctly

null@example.com (Marilyn Johnson) — Wed, 04 Sep 2024 15:55:03 +0000

Ho hum... this makes my head spin. If y'all don't mind, I'm gonna just write and not worry about the order in which I write ... IF I ever write anything again!

Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to writing school we go.

Re: Rules for ordering adjectives correctly

null@example.com (njc) — Wed, 04 Sep 2024 00:33:16 +0000

More generally, the most intrinsic modifiers are placed nearest the nouns they modify, and the most extrinsic (e.g. number) are placed furthest away.

The rule about commas only between modifiers of like or near-like category isn't absolute. Sometimes the modifier sequence reads best with a non-canonical comma somewhere.

Intrinsic: related to a property inherent in the thing itself, without regard to how much you have or how it relates to other tbings.

Extrinsic: what is not intrinsic, per above

Intrinsic and extrinsic are endpoints on a scale.

I first read about this 'rule' in the 1980s in a paper out of Bell Labs. It described how speakers and writers of prose regarded (or measured?) as clear (comprehensible?) actually wrote. I presume it was part of their studies in readability. So it's not an arbitrary rule, but the description of observed common and good practice.

Rules for ordering adjectives correctly

null@example.com (Dirk B.) — Tue, 03 Sep 2024 21:26:26 +0000

Below is a link to a great article on adjective order in English.

https://www.gingersoftware.com/content/ … adjectives

Apparently, the correct order is:

Quantity or number
Quality or opinion
Size
Age
Shape
Color
Proper adjective (often nationality, other place of origin, or material)
Purpose or qualifier

If you get the above in the right order, no commas are required, except if you have two or more from the same category.
In other words, it's not correct to simply drop all commas between adjectives. Nor is it correct to use commas between all adjectives, which is what I've been doing.

There are numerous good examples in the article. Although most come naturally to native English speakers, not all cases are obvious.

Have fun!