Linda and Jennifer,

Both of you have made excellent points which I wholeheartedly support.  I think I may link the support page on providing a review to this thread. 

Sol

Well said by those who say almost everything well!  I wasn't aware that some think they have to LIKE what they review.  If the content doesn't suit me, so what?  I review for grammar, spelling, flow, typos, etc.  Content is highly subjective; rules of writing are not!   Who was the great orator who said, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it?" 

I was taught to ask three question before commenting on anything: Is it true?  Is it kind?  Is it necessary?  If the answer to all three is yes, then say it.  If the answer  to any question is negative, don't say anything at all.

I don't submit my work for approval; I submit it for critique of the WRITING, not for critique of my beliefs, values, experiences, or emotions.  Well, lately, I submit to bring joy and laughter--that's approval-seeking behavior, maybe?

Thanks for your support, Sol!  You can be the "bouncer!"   Have a blessed Christmas, everyone!  Elle

perhaps I shouldn't be writing this when I'm feeling so negative - I like to project myself as 'bouncy' and 'positive'.  On the other hand, sadness usually makes me more compassionate, so it is in that spirit I am writing.

I agree with all that has been said about the rudeness.  It can be hurtful.  It is definitely in bad taste.  When I come across writing I don't like at all, I usually decide NOT to review it at all.  I might even agree with the content, but how can I write something not totally negative, unless there is something I can be positive about.  Perhaps, this is cowardly - and of course, if I were obliged to review, I would do my best.  But if I have an option, I usually wait for another posting by the same member and review that.

Incidentally, I speak only of poetry and the occasional short story - I don't have the energy to d much else.

I have also had reviews which purport to not understanding a poem and rating accordingly.  Not understanding something in its totality would be another reason for not reviewing.  Can I review a poem in Swedish if I don't understand the language?  I don't review for points, but because I enjoy the interaction and hope it is beneficial.

As for the downright rude, arrogant or harassing, they always reach my compassionate chords, and I think these people should be addressed, not chucked out of the community.  If we want our work to be published eventually, we must learn to deal with a negative or even insolent press, so learning how to is also an aspect of our work.  What is more, artists are well-known to be slightly alien to the norms of society, some more pleasantly so, some not.  Sometimes reviewers write from phobias we are not familiar with.  In my case, I try to respond positively and sometimes make the most unlikely friend.  I have also been told by a reviewer who wrote a negative review, that the person whose work he was negative about, wrote such a frendly review of something he posted that he felt mean and horrible and wanted to remedy matters.  I admire that positive reviewer for letting a possible phobia slide like water off a duck's back and adressing a work objectively, instead of trying to ger her own back on someone who was rude.

I hope I have not sounded like some preacher.  I just wish to go to sleep and wake up on the 2nd January - when I hope to bounce back to you all - :)maria

I was a member of another writing site for a couple of years and there was a real problem there with negative reviews. At that site, the reviews could be deleted, but deleting them didn't stop them from hurting. A couple of times, I almost gave up writing altogether, but then I thought, 'why should I?' I write for fun and it gives me great pleasure to create something I think is good. I'm not the best writer, nor do I want to be, though I do want to improve which is the reason people like me join these sites. Why should someone take away my pleasure because they are bitter and want to hurt people? I agree that these people should be pitied. I guess they all have their reasons for being nasty and doing what they do. As well as being pitied, they should also be ignored. Take them for what they are and file those reviews into your mental shredder - then forget them - they really aren't worth getting upset about. Lizzy.

I just want to reiterate that reviewers who persist in writing negative and hurtful reviews will not be tolerated.  Honest feedback and constructive criticism that focuses on the work is encouraged.  But if I find a reviewer who is purposely hurting the feelings of other writers, they will be warned, and then they will be asked to leave.  The goal of the site is to empower writers and I feel very strongly about creating a place that can do that.

Now of course, there is often some fuzziness between what is constructive and what is hurtful/negative.  We look at them on a case by case basis.

Sol

I prefer not to review work that I haven't connected with.  If, after a stanza or paragraph, the author hasn't got me, I'll leave the piece.  Maybe that isn't exactly what the writer needs, but I feel the review given by somebody who enjoyed the piece and can give constructive criticism will be of more use.

I love this site because it gives me somewhere to go and read some fresh, free material, when I have some spare time.  I feel that in general, whether the wiriter has made a connection with me or not, the quality here is excellent and I want to be able to say that I read and critiqued so-and-so on thenextbigwriter.com before they were a best selling author.  I certainly don't want to offend or insult and hope never to do so.

Good suggestion Rhiannon.  I am going to link to this forum from the FAQs and the Review Guidelines.

I have often gotten reviews that are more criticizing than critical (hopefully not at this site). I love the atmosphere that this site brings. I like giving honest, constructive reviews to people knowing that what I say will help shape their piece. It's empowering. I do agree that something positive exists in everything and must be acknowledged. Sometimes a writer needs to know what's good about his or her writing, what can be kept so that they can concentrate on parts that he or she knows to be weak. I totally agree that reviewers shouldn't confuse a writer with his or her work and not give a review of the writer but of the work. I also think that the reverse is true. A writer looking at a review of a piece should not think an attack is being made on his or her character because a reviewer brings up some negative points.
Everyone keep up the good work!

Angela

I think the reviews here promarily serve either one of two purposes: 1: You read something you're so knocked-out by that you just HAVE to let the writer know, or 2: You read something that is so close to that perfection-with such great potential-that you WANT to offer ways to make it better. If, on the other hand, you simply find the work not to your taste at all, either because the writing style just totally puts you off, or it's dealing with subject matter you don't like, or you just flat out don't "get" what the writer is doing, it's probably best not to attempt to review that work. Leave those to the readers who DO get it. I would say if your review starts to feel like you're rewriting the person's piece, that's probably a good indication that you should just leave it alone. Perhaps the next reader will have a better take on the piece. All of us are putting ourselves on the line by submitting work, even though we know that reviewing and critiquing is part of the process-but that goes with the territory, and if you become published, something you have to get used to, anyway. Still, there's no point in being mean-spirited for no reason. Professional critics and reviewers have to be harsh and sometimes ruthless because it's their job to inform readers and buyers whether a book is worth their money. But our purpose here is simply to help one another become better writers. Personally, I have not run across any reviews on this site that I would call unnecessaily mean, but I have no doubt this thread was started for a reason, and that they are probably out there. I think sometimes that, just as people engage in "road rage" behavior on the highways, flipping the finger and cutting other drivers off and other things they generally would not do in polite face-to-face conversation, there are people who likewise misuse the anonymity of the message forum as an excuse to gain a sense of power by belittling others. I think a good rule of thumb when writing a review is to think, what would I say to this person face-to-face if we were sitting in a wriitng workshop together? If you are honest with yourself, you know that you shouldn't write anything that you would not say to that individual in person about their work.

I am not entirely comfortable with the concept of reviewing and critiquing simply because I KNOW that every work is someone's child. Fortunately, I've been in enough writing workshops through the years that I've developed a fairly thick skin. I've also put in a year with a tough mentor who's going philosophy was to "tear" me down so that I could, as he put it, be "built up again." And, as a teacher, MFA student, and reader for a major literary publication, I've learned to have a fairly thick skin about critquing the works of others.  But, still, I know what it feels like to be ripped apart, and I would never (at least not intentionally) do that to a fellow writer. Of course, we shouldn't be afraid to be honest, either (if all we're doing is patting each other on the back with 5-star reviews, what's the point, right?).  But there's ways to be honest constructively, and I think we are all adult enough to understand the difference.

Hi Friends,
    I wanted to share an example of what I call a great "bad" review.  I  tried to make if plain when introducing the piece thatthis was a personal one, and many of the things this reviewer rails about were not exactly in the mix.

Comments: Hi Linda - I guess I'm the odd one out on this one. Now to explain my marks for this piece. If I'm going by what is said next to each star, I have to give you a 1 - as I "did" have to force myself to continue reading. HOWEVER, based on your writing style etc. I'd give you a 5. You are a gifted and talented writer, but I guess I'm one of those you called "Tunnel vision" which i will not apologize for as we each have our own opinions and minds. But some of what you said really bothered me, esp. this part-Do you think me incapable of giving, caring, of loving my fellow man without your instruction book? Have you taken time from your busy Sunday school class to hold a friend who has lost a loved one? Have you rescued a starving kitten, and given it a place on your hearth? Have you reached out,without thoughts of conversion running through your mind. Is it always so importantthat you keep score of how many souls you gathered for your master on any given day. Do I lack a spiritual vlaue system because I am comfortable with letting others simply be?

"instruction book" ? Whewwww... I thank God for His word, and sure I think many are capable of loving the next man w/o it, however when storms come into your life, when you don't know which way to turn, yes "His little instruction book" is very helpful. I am a Christian and Jesus Christ is my Savior - so my questions to you are - I don't keep track of the souls gathered, am I not a Christian? I have brought in a kitten from the wintery cold, fed him, kept him warm, when I personally HATE kittens honestly but I couldn't stand seeing him abandonned by the people up the street who moved and left him in the dead of winter. I have held a mother who lost her son, my ex boyfriend who was a soldier in the army, a woman who felt I wasn't good enough for her son - a woman who hung up the phone on me when I called, but in the end I was there for her, and have continued to be many years later. Am I not a Christian? I have reached out and work hard not to be judgemental as I have a child who tells me "I'm gay" did I turn my back? No, I love him unconditionally (and his gay partner as well.) Not all churches close the door but only take money- and if that's where you go, maybe you should change. I thank God for my pastor & church. They welcome ALL - no matter your income, age, religion, lifestyle, color or past. This peice hurt me as a christian, there are good Christians and bad ones, just like their are good &bad nonChristians. sorry just had to respondassomeofwhatyousaidhurt.


    I was really angry,  for about 30 seconds, and then realized that I had done my job as a writer.  I had engaged the reader, even if in a debating way.  I had caused the reader to examine her values and stand up for them, and I had made contact with her passion for the topic, to the point she would defend it so vehemently.  I gave her a five star rating for a one star review.   Sometimesit is what we take from the review that counts.  This reviewer had shown me the effectiveness of this one piece, and I dincerely thank her ofr it.  I also harbor no hard feelings for the one star. I am actually complimented by it.
Linda

Perhaps a few brilliant quotations may be helpful:

"Be kind - for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." (John Watson)

"The kindest word in all the world is the unkind word unsaid." (Author unknown)

"Constant kindness can accomplish much  As the sun makes ice melt, kindness causes misunderstanding, mistrust, and hostility to evaporate." (Albert Schweitzer)

"Don't be nasty."  (Susan)

Last edited by Westwitch (12-30-2005 08:18:16)

Whew, what a review!  I would have been like you linda, i would have been angry right away and would have to sit on it a few days before saying anything rash.  But i'm quick to anger and slow to cool down   I'm glad you took the one star as a compliment because it was completey true that the piece did what it was suppsoed to do in that case.  Too bad the reviewr couldn't see that, but i guess your poem was so great that all they could think about was how they felt in relation to the poem.
I'm so glad you were able to take something that made you angry and turn it around to something positive.  May we all learn a lesson from you.

Jordan, i love your avatar.  I personally enjoy Kyle as GL over Hal, but either way Green Lantern rocks!