Almost everything no matter how flawed has some positive aspect (if not in terms of technique perhaps the subject matter itself, the idea, the potential to be better with work, even just a few good sentences or phrases). It's best to start on a positive note, even a faint one; then give an honest, but not harsh, appraisal. Try to be concise and specific in your criticisms; not wordy and general. Be candid but not blunt. Most writers want honest, objective input that will help them better their craft; but they don't want to be demeaned or disrespected. How you say it is as important as what you say. So watch your tone. And lastly, be genuinely supportive, i.e., let the writer know you really do want to help. If you do all that and a writer responds badly, then avoid them in the future, as the fault is probably with them, not you.
Paul

JDChristopher wrote:

Ok, so I got panned by a reviewer.  Not the first time, and won't be the last.  I give myself bad reviews nearly every day, so I can live with a bad review.  I even wanted to prove I'm professional by kindly reviewing the reviewer's story.  I opened it up. It was terrible.  I closed it.  I didn't review it.  I could not be magnanamous and honest.  If I said what I thought, it would sound like retribution.  I became a mute.

What do you do when you read something truly horrific?  I feel pulled in half:  give a frank, honest critique, or say nothing and avert the eyes?

What do you folk do?

JDChristopher,

For me, given the narcissistic nature of the workshop venue, the most learning takes place in the reflective period after I've received a review. When I receive 'counsel' rather than praise, I try to consider the source of the review.

If I've come to believe the writing and thinking of the reviewer are generally insightful, I try to take great pains and be as forthright as possible to tell them why I think their 'counsel' was right or wrong. I consider those the most importune moments in the workshop venue for 'learning' -- both for the reviewer and for me. I need to know why I've done what I do and to be able to also write out my thoughts clearly for a good writer/reader.

If I don't think the writing and thinking of the reviewer are insightful, I will try to find things in their review that I can honestly say were helpful, whether because it was encouraging or because it caused me to rethink something, and respond to them accordingly.

If I don't know if the reviewer is a generally insightful and thoughtful writer, I try to go read something the reviewer has proudly posted on TNBW. This gives me a brief glance at the writer and thinker that is the reviewer.

There is a feature here on TNBW that allows us to establish forthright relationships in the privacy of our responses to reviews.

In your case, I tried to start our writing, wreading, and wreviewing wrelationship off on this forthright foot in my response to your review of the first part of my story Bumbabee, herewith: http://www.thenextbigwriter.com/library … read/49666

By virtue of the feature on TNBW of privacy in responses I was able to tell you that I thought your counsel for the first sentence was wrong and why it was wrong. Whether my wreasoning was wright or wrong it was a wresponse I owed you as a writer and wreviewer. By virtue of having read and reviewed several chapters of one of your stories, I was already confident you were a thoughtful and insightful writer.

Now to answer your question: If I were younger and read something I thought was truly horrific, I hope I'd try to tell the writer what I knew that would help them make it less horrific to my ear. However, looking back on some of the things I wrote when I was younger, I'm not confident I knew enough to distinguish between horrific and brilliant when I was younger.

Now that I'm older and hidebound, I realize I only have enough time left on earth to try to come down off the front porch and hunt with the big dawgs if I'm to get good enough at this writing thing to be gratifying to the wreader in my makeup. So... I'd probably pass on posting a review of something I read that I considered horrific.

In your case, I'd counsel, if you are young enough to be helpful to horrific writers, that you can learn a lot about your own writing and this craft by rolling up your sleeves and helping them. If you're old like me, passing on reading and reviewing horrific writing may be your best option.

Memphis Trace

JD.. keep the honesty or your reviews will become 'drive-by' offerings that in a 'workshop' environment are useless. After awhile the writer recognizes these and feel a tad cheated.  I would rather have some honest criticism as 'criticism' has been my 'classroom.'

Remember though my word "workshop"  ... if perfection in writing has already been reached in the mind of the writer/reviewer, why be on a 'workshop' site in the first place.  We come from so many levels of creativity and schooling.  BUT... the desire to write needs to be held in respect and one can be honest while still offering hope. Only rarely have I read work that I truly felt that person might be better off taking up Basket Weaving. 

Developing an honesty along with good healthy communication skills it not a bad thing. It is not 'selling out.' 

You offer this site a lot as have read several of your works.  The latest one I reviewed I wanted to post a appeal in the "Recommended" forum.   

JElizabeth... on the quote "there is really no piece that's all shit?"  Perhaps not, but I have had times I was sorta wishing I had some Vicks to shove up my nose! 

Last edited by flowing pencil (05-14-2011 08:45:21)

Thank you, all.  I'm a former English teacher; I'm a professional writer.  It is how I make my living.   Although I've never had a bad public review of a published piece (thank god for decent editors), I have had fan mail of both the effusive and threatening varieties.   I've shied away from these type of workshops because, in the past, when I've opted in, the level of critical review has been low, and the thinness of participants' skin has been great. 

I appreciate it when someone else turns the lathe on my work and the chips fly.  I get too close, have read the words too many times, get blinded by repetition.  Workshops help, if the critique is clear, honest, and pointed.  I tend to review the way I want to be reviewed. 

Thanks again!

M

Last edited by JDChristopher (05-14-2011 16:17:39)

JD,

I'm not the best reviewer, I know it. I really struggle sometimes to come up with constructive feedback and encouragement. That's why we're all here.

But what I do know, I do know, and give it straight from the shoulder. I too, am a published writer (poetry and short stories), and also wrote professionally for years -- though as a technical writer, which is a totally different mindset than creative writing.

My first review of your work you responded with a 1, with no comment. But I took that as you being new to this site and system, and simply didn't know any better. We all went through that.

So I gave another review of your work, in which you responded with a more conscious rating, but still without comment. Was it helpful, or not? No comment, and I can't help but get the idea it means my take was so beneath contempt a comment isn't warranted.

But, yet again, I gave you the benefit of the doubt, because I believe in your works' potential, and gave one last review, in which you did finally give it a conscious rating, and with a comment that seemed to indicate my take was helpful.

And now, I'm wondering, if the work you spoke of that was so horrible, was mine! And if so, which one?

The fact of the matter is, here on this site, you will eventually find those of comparable, and even greater, magnitude to your own writing, and solicit their feedback above all others.

Don't get me wrong, as I really couldn't care less about the 1 review rating.  A 5 rating and now $20 will get you a latte But without a comment to know whether it was appropriate and helpful,  well, it kind of leaves one hanging, ya know?

I enjoy your work immensely.

Jim

Last edited by jaames (05-14-2011 18:41:26)

Memphis Trace wrote:

JDChristopher wrote:

Ok, so I got panned by a reviewer.  Not the first time, and won't be the last.  I give myself bad reviews nearly every day, so I can live with a bad review.  I even wanted to prove I'm professional by kindly reviewing the reviewer's story.  I opened it up. It was terrible.  I closed it.  I didn't review it.  I could not be magnanamous and honest.  If I said what I thought, it would sound like retribution.  I became a mute.

What do you do when you read something truly horrific?  I feel pulled in half:  give a frank, honest critique, or say nothing and avert the eyes?

What do you folk do?

JDChristopher,

For me, given the narcissistic nature of the workshop venue, the most learning takes place in the reflective period after I've received a review. When I receive 'counsel' rather than praise, I try to consider the source of the review.

If I've come to believe the writing and thinking of the reviewer are generally insightful, I try to take great pains and be as forthright as possible to tell them why I think their 'counsel' was right or wrong. I consider those the most importune moments in the workshop venue for 'learning' -- both for the reviewer and for me. I need to know why I've done what I do and to be able to also write out my thoughts clearly for a good writer/reader.

If I don't think the writing and thinking of the reviewer are insightful, I will try to find things in their review that I can honestly say were helpful, whether because it was encouraging or because it caused me to rethink something, and respond to them accordingly.

If I don't know if the reviewer is a generally insightful and thoughtful writer, I try to go read something the reviewer has proudly posted on TNBW. This gives me a brief glance at the writer and thinker that is the reviewer.

There is a feature here on TNBW that allows us to establish forthright relationships in the privacy of our responses to reviews.

In your case, I tried to start our writing, wreading, and wreviewing wrelationship off on this forthright foot in my response to your review of the first part of my story Bumbabee, herewith: http://www.thenextbigwriter.com/library … read/49666

By virtue of the feature on TNBW of privacy in responses I was able to tell you that I thought your counsel for the first sentence was wrong and why it was wrong. Whether my wreasoning was wright or wrong it was a wresponse I owed you as a writer and wreviewer. By virtue of having read and reviewed several chapters of one of your stories, I was already confident you were a thoughtful and insightful writer.

Now to answer your question: If I were younger and read something I thought was truly horrific, I hope I'd try to tell the writer what I knew that would help them make it less horrific to my ear. However, looking back on some of the things I wrote when I was younger, I'm not confident I knew enough to distinguish between horrific and brilliant when I was younger.

Now that I'm older and hidebound, I realize I only have enough time left on earth to try to come down off the front porch and hunt with the big dawgs if I'm to get good enough at this writing thing to be gratifying to the wreader in my makeup. So... I'd probably pass on posting a review of something I read that I considered horrific.

In your case, I'd counsel, if you are young enough to be helpful to horrific writers, that you can learn a lot about your own writing and this craft by rolling up your sleeves and helping them. If you're old like me, passing on reading and reviewing horrific writing may be your best option.

Memphis Trace

Hey, revisiting this forum piece.   Took a look at the story in question and without that empty chair, I feel the utter strength of the beginning would be lost.  Just an honest opinion and God knows, I am not a writer of novels so my opinion is worth less than a fart echoing in the forest. With that in mind.. if the farter has left the forest would the fart therefore echo?   I am of sound mind and body.  Well, sound mind! The body is.... well... drifting south.   

JDChristopher wrote:

Ok, so I got panned by a reviewer.  Not the first time, and won't be the last.  I give myself bad reviews nearly every day, so I can live with a bad review.  I even wanted to prove I'm professional by kindly reviewing the reviewer's story.  I opened it up. It was terrible.  I closed it.  I didn't review it.  I could not be magnanamous and honest.  If I said what I thought, it would sound like retribution.  I became a mute.

What do you do when you read something truly horrific?  I feel pulled in half:  give a frank, honest critique, or say nothing and avert the eyes?

What do you folk do?

I'd said, "Thank you very much for your time."  And then rate it a 1.