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#1 09-28-2009 11:40:55

Kydd Dustyn
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Getting over yourself advice please

I sat down at the computer once again this last weekend to write down a couple of funny memoirs I had which had come up in a conversation earlier last week.  As always, I have no problem telling the story to people face-to-face, but alas, when I sit to actually write it down, I end up staring into the white abyss unsure of how to approach it.  I'm so uncomfortable with first person narrative.  It's akin to my avid fear of hopping things.  I freeze with terror and end up masking it as something else or have it happening to a fictional character instead.  I'm good at pumping 20-40 pages of fiction out a day, so why can't I write my own life story?

Can anyone give me advice on getting past the idea of personal or diary-like commitment?  I've had a very unusual life (very Garp-like) and so many people have asked me to write it down.  I had lunch with a producer friend recently and she said she would jump at the chance of putting it to a screenplay.  If only I could.  Any and all suggestions would be most appreciated. smile

Thanks,
Kydd

Last edited by Kydd Dustyn (03-03-2011 13:35:45)


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#2 09-28-2009 14:21:11

slh0906
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Registered: 09-09-2009
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Re: Getting over yourself advice please

Hmmm...Pretend you are a character and write in the voice of the character but keep it true to your life?  Try to disembody yourself to some degree?  Go into therapy to see what the personal block is?  (just kidding!)  Maybe part of your problem is you know the whole story and to slow your thinking down enough to get in on paper is the hard part, whereas when you're writing fiction the story may be slowly evolving as you write it.  Break it down into small parts and try not to get too caught up in the linear details, just try to capture the essence with your authentic voice.  Just my ideas...

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#3 09-28-2009 14:22:33

slh0906
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Re: Getting over yourself advice please

Another thought:  Just try to capture what is universal and leave the extremely personal out of it.  Then as you go back and re-read, if you feel comfortable add more of the intimate details.

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#4 09-28-2009 19:09:27

Kydd Dustyn
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Re: Getting over yourself advice please

Hmm, very excellent ideas, slh0906.  And a very astute observation about the whole story evolution thing.  I'll definitely give it a shot.

Thanks!
Kydd


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#5 09-29-2009 09:55:35

mishmont
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From: Sams Valley Oregon
Registered: 11-19-2006
Posts: 5117

Re: Getting over yourself advice please

I had a problem editing Diary--often coming to places where I would say, "Who cares about this?"

It didn't feel inauthentic to sometimes take those out (as per slh's suggestion), though adding stuff was usually a no-no.


Go, eat your bread in gladness, and drink your wine in joy; for your action was long ago approved by God.
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#6 09-29-2009 14:16:31

Kydd Dustyn
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Re: Getting over yourself advice please

Thanks, mishmont.  You have a good point.  I'm not worried about the personal stuff when I really think about it.  It's just the story itself.  I tried again last night and maybe slh is right--too much to say and my fingers can't keep up.  I stopped after the first page and realized I was getting bogged down in the details, the settings, the backgrounds and the lead-ups.  I wonder if doing it first in outline form would help me avoid that.  Hmm, I should give that a try. 

I'm such a visual writer.  I see and create stories like they were movies playing in my head and I'm trying too hard to get all the details down for my invisible cast and crew... big_smile 

Since I started posting here, I've become an excessive editor, cutting whole pages and scenes from my stories without compunction.  Then I get back reviews saying "hmm, you seem to be missing something" and I say, "oops.  Well, gosh-darn, I mean, I see the whole picture, why can't you be clairvoyent and see it too?  Silly people." tongue 

Well, maybe I should use a little of that editing enthusiasm on my memories.

Ciao for now,
Kydd


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#7 02-16-2011 15:02:32

Filliam
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Registered: 09-14-2010
Posts: 198

Re: Getting over yourself advice please

Kydd, as a fairly regular reviewer of my stuff, you know that I'm partial to narrative nonfiction---that relatively new genre that many publishers are hesitant to touch.  It's more than mere memoir---it's a RE-HAPPENING.  Can you split your personality and view yourself at that (past) time and (past) place surrounded by people and circumstances you remember?  . . . And then WRITE about it---YOU were a different person then, too!  Include THAT person in THOSE situations surrounded by THOSE OTHER circumstances. . . I dunno.  Seems to work for me.  Good luck . . . Filliam

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#8 02-16-2011 16:06:22

vern
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Re: Getting over yourself advice please

I would suggest that you not treat it as a "diary" rather treat it as just another story you are telling; you just already know where it's going. You've said you have no problem relating the story someone face-to-face, so why not just write it the same way you tell it to another person - you could even turn on a recorder when you are telling it; you'd soon forget it was on and just tell it naturally the way you always have. You can edit after the fact.

And there is nothing wrong imo with your story reading more like your fiction, would probably make it more readable to the average fan out there. But no matter the format you choose to write it, the key is just to go ahead and put it on paper and damn how it looks or sounds or feels initially. You know how to change it for the better when the time comes as you already have experience in doing so with your other writings. Don't treat your memoir any different because it is not, just another story you happen to be familiar with; pretend you made it up, lol - actually you are since none of us have perfect memories. Good luck. Take care. Vern


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#9 02-16-2011 16:38:21

TirzahLaughs
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Re: Getting over yourself advice please

I've tried to do just that before. It's so much trickier than it looks.  I can tell you what I do know.   In a memoir, you tell a version of your life with a focus.  You can't tell everything.

In my life, I could focus on the cancer deaths  or I could do one on my screwed up relationship with  my mother.   Or I could do one on my writing.

Where all three of those things would show in a memoir, the focus would be more heavily one, giving the story a plot and a focus.

Its extremely hard to write an engaging memoir (as opposed to telling an entertaining antedote).  There is this feeling that it has to reflect the event perfectly. I have to know everything from the fact you did two turds in the toilet to that morning, spilled coffee in your crotch and ran over a goat on the way to work.  You can get tied up in the 'truth' of it.

Fiction lets you bend the world to fit your overall idea.  Memoirs have an overall idea and you trying to bend it into a story.

I say pick your 'memoir focus' then plot it out on paper.

Personally I hate outlining but if the memoir is getting bogged down in your head, it may help.

And no one said your memoir/antedote can't be written in third person.

It's a bit like sketching.  I think you sketch, right?  You can't put every single detail in a picture.  What you want in a sketch is to give an accurate impression of a figure with an emotion behind it.  What you leave out is as important as what you put in.

And then you smudges the edges a bit to give it life.

You, I think, are trying to tell everything to the tiniest detail.  You need less of every detail and more sketching the background, focus on the figure in the focus.

I think I'm muddling it.

Last edited by TirzahLaughs (02-16-2011 16:44:56)


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#10 02-16-2011 16:47:53

TirzahLaughs
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Re: Getting over yourself advice please

Ok Kydd, sent you new cover pics...better wings.  I just need to know if you want the darker version or the lighter version ---or something more in the middle.


All things are possible...but no one said any of it would be easy.   BLOG:  acleverwhatever.blogspot.com

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#11 02-21-2011 09:18:43

R A Keen
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From: NYC Metro area
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Posts: 1768

Re: Getting over yourself advice please

What about first telling the story to a friend and recording the tale simultaneously?

Might work, get you over the hemp later by writing it down as you listen. There's your rough copy than start fine tuning.

After all, that's all we really are - Storytellers but in weird little scratchings rather than voice. Use your voice as your guide.

Write well and prosper,

R A K


". . . I have spread my dreams beneath your feet;
tread softly because you tread on my dreams . . . ." - W.B. Yeats

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#12 03-03-2011 10:22:34

Filliam
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Registered: 09-14-2010
Posts: 198

Re: Getting over yourself advice please

So Kydd---can't imagine your having a problem with writing ANYTHING!!!  But since I write largely memoir (admitting it or not), and now that I've read the very good suggestions to you of others, let me add another "possibility."

I've lived an a lot of different environments, mostly overseas in places I've chosen, then traveled to adjacent areas . . . so lots of unusual experiences. . . that I write about.  Here's what seems to work best for me:  get out of myself and become the "observer."  Several advantages to this bit of distance.  Now I can look on dispassionately to clean out and toss away the "incidentals" which are sharp in my recollection but which add nothing, nothing at all, to this particular story/memoir I want to write.  And now---"dispassionate" seems to be a key word here---I can achieve FOCUS.  What's the point---and get TO it (the point)!  The first person singulars and plurals can now be controlled and limited and the seated-beside-myself positioning gives me objectivity.

Do you see where I'm going with this little "trick"?
And by keeping that tad of distance, I ALSO can avoid becoming a member of the I/me/we/us Club---surely an improvement.

Let me know how this works for you!

Filliam

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#13 03-03-2011 10:25:05

Filliam
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Posts: 198

Re: Getting over yourself advice please

Important but forgotten above, and although i"m quite certain you already know this:  before launch, be sure that you're dealing with a STORY and not merely an ANECDOTE.

Filliam

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#14 03-03-2011 11:45:25

Kydd Dustyn
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Re: Getting over yourself advice please

Thanks, everyone.  Definitely all good advice (which I'm going to print out and save for some another time--when I'm not feeling quite so 'deflated').  Today, I'm not certain it's worth the effort.  No one really gives a rat's ass about it. 

Just yesterday, our John H. pointed out to me that who I've met, what I've done, and all the adventures I've had would get my ass kicked if I told any one of the stories of my life at a bar.  People would automatically go 'That's bullshit'.  He's probably right.  Over the past 53 years, my life has been like a pinball, bumping into amazing or not-so-amazing people, newsworthy events, and adventures that few will believe.  But, to put this all into a book would only emphasize my own anonymity and accentuate what a loser I am for not having capitalized on these chance meetings or events when I could have--although the 'loser' part was going to be the point of the book.  If I had family who cared, maybe I could write it for them, but my family sees me as a liability, not an asset. 

Filliam's correct in pointing out I would probably end up with a series of anecdotes and thereby be best left as flotsam in the past or for animated conversation at a cocktail party where I can blame the listener's disbelief on the drink.

I should concentrate my efforts on the make-believe instead and just write a few mildly entertaining tales.

Life's too short as it is.

And the producer friend who was interested in my initial posting is gone--lymphoma. sad

Much appreciated,
Kydd

Last edited by Kydd Dustyn (03-03-2011 11:50:20)


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#15 01-07-2012 08:14:36

w. e. turner
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From: El Dorado, Kansas
Registered: 09-07-2011
Posts: 152
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Re: Getting over yourself advice please

Kydd Dustyn wrote:

I sat down at the computer once again this last weekend to write down a couple of funny memoirs I had which had come up in a conversation earlier last week.  As always, I have no problem telling the story to people face-to-face, but alas, when I sit to actually write it down, I end up staring into the white abyss unsure of how to approach it.  I'm so uncomfortable with first person narrative.  It's akin to my avid fear of hopping things.  I freeze with terror and end up masking it as something else or have it happening to a fictional character instead.  I'm good at pumping 20-40 pages of fiction out a day, so why can't I write my own life story?

Can anyone give me advice on getting past the idea of personal or diary-like commitment?  I've had a very unusual life (very Garp-like) and so many people have asked me to write it down.  I had lunch with a producer friend recently and she said she would jump at the chance of putting it to a screenplay.  If only I could.  Any and all suggestions would be most appreciated. smile

Thanks,
Kydd

"I'm good at pumping 20-40 pages of fiction out a day, so why can't I write my own life story?"

I think it all boils down to being comfortable with who and what you are.  We can create characters and their actions/thoughts because we know, deep down, they are NOT us.  They are like objects: little porcelain dolls we can dress or paint or mutilate or even destroy at our slightest whim.  We know they're not really going to hurt or bleed or sicken or die by our actions, even though that's what we SAY they do.  But WE have total control over them.

On the other hand, we often feel we don't have any control over our own selves.  We are constantly buffeted by the winds of change that blow over us from any and all directions simultaneously, pushing us this way and that way with no control over what we do or what we are. 

We become like little Hannibal Lectors, controlling and manipulating others but afraid to turn that high-powered intellect inward, to see what's wrong with US.  We're afraid to fish in that swamp because we know fishing there will be tragic. 

But will it?  Will we really know that until we try?  Are we willing to try?  Or do we just want to play with our porcelain dolls?

Last edited by w. e. turner (04-01-2012 10:12:23)


"Anyone who says they have only one life to live must not know how to read a book."

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#16 01-07-2012 14:09:54

Susan Stec
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From: Michigan
Registered: 06-29-2008
Posts: 4466
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Re: Getting over yourself advice please

R A Keen wrote:

What about first telling the story to a friend and recording the tale simultaneously?

Might work, get you over the hemp later by writing it down as you listen. There's your rough copy than start fine tuning.

After all, that's all we really are - Storytellers but in weird little scratchings rather than voice. Use your voice as your guide.

Write well and prosper,

R A K

I was going to suggest recording it too, Keen.


Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation ~~ Oscar Wilde
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#17 01-07-2012 20:31:16

mishmont
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From: Sams Valley Oregon
Registered: 11-19-2006
Posts: 5117

Re: Getting over yourself advice please

R A Keen wrote:

Might work, get you over the hemp later by writing it down as you listen.

...But be sure to start with the hemp...lol


Go, eat your bread in gladness, and drink your wine in joy; for your action was long ago approved by God.
                                                                                                                                                                        --- Ecclesiastes 9.7

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#18 04-11-2012 07:05:34

brosna11
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From: YMCA
Registered: 01-06-2007
Posts: 4235

Re: Getting over yourself advice please

I rarely read a memoir. Mark Twain wrote one. James Joyce did not. (Portrait of the Artist is close) Faulkner didn't. Flaubert didn't. Historical types usually do and they're ghost-written except for Churchill. Now I have to research this subject. I'll be back.


unhemmed as it is uneven

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#19 04-11-2012 11:43:43

Erndog
Member
Registered: 01-08-2012
Posts: 59

Re: Getting over yourself advice please

Since this producer would love to turn it into a screenplay, focus on that aspect. Many screenplays are adapted from novels and those are written in 3rd person with or without an omniscient narrator. Write about yourself in third person keeping in mind that it can be adapted for a screenplay.

Verbally telling a story is much different than writing a story—it’s a different medium like film and books. Another technique you could use is, write it like a screenplay. This would force you to write it like you tell it – dialog and visuals only— it’s about what you saw, what you did, and what you said, and not about how you felt or thought or perceived things.  Recall your story and make a construct like scene from a movie and write it like a screenplay—link the scenes together with a short narrative.


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#20 05-10-2012 16:32:45

Gail McNally
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Registered: 12-03-2008
Posts: 8

Re: Getting over yourself advice please

To memoir or not to memoir, that is the question. For me it's cheaper than theropy and harder to stay on than a greased bar stool.  Outlining is the only way I can see if there is a story with a beginning, middle and end. Oh yah and a purpose.

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