No problem Carolyn. It can be a bit odd trying to get used to the site at first.

matt wrote:

Hi hanman,

Thanks for helping me find this area. I was truly shocked by your interpretation of the star ratings. If this is the prevailing view, I understand why the Fantasy group insists on ratings of either 4 or 5.

I looked at the rating system as an indication of where a piece stood on its journey to publication and took the explanatory verbiage seriously (all except the needlessly laudatory "a worthy effort" for level 1 and "I'll remember this for a long time" for level 5). Frankly, I've tried to keep my particular tastes out of the reviewing process. If I thought a piece was ready for publication, I'd give it a 5 whether it was something I particularly enjoyed or not. If I thought a piece was only in the beginning stages and needed a lot of work, I'd give it a 1 regardless of how much I enjoyed the story or, at least, the story's concept.

I stand corrected. If most people are operating under your guidelines, then I am certainly willing to comply.

matt

Yeah you gota watch that. There's a whole section in the forum where people get together and scream because of low scores. It's just a politeness. If people get 1 and 2's and sometimes 3's they feel they are being insulted and will, in most cases, not review the reviewers work. As we are all here to help one another the comments in the review should be able to convey what the reviewer feels the story needs. We don't need battles.

hanman wrote:

The un-written star ratings.

1. My god this is crap and should never see the light of day.
2. Not bad enough to delete but i hope i never have to read it again.
3. Bearable but not my thing.
4.  I enjoyed this but it needs some work.
5. Could be amazing with just a little work.

the admin should really change the stars to this. but then again it might be worse.



has anyone noticed that stars is misspelt?  it's starts.  lol

Diomed Akren-duras wrote:

Hey Hanman,

I was curious how this would work. It looks like you've got a good thing going here, and now that i'm caught up on the fantasy forum i'd love to join this little niche. Any indocrination rituels i need to know about? haha .

Nah no protocals. Just a spot for people to find others looking for reviews. I'm full at this stage. Between our circle and a few people i'v picked up here i bursting at the seams. Feel free to just leave a message if your looking for more reviewers and see what happens, that's all i did.

wow, had no idea about the star ratings.  I was going based what the site said as well.  I think the site is much better.  By using the definitions you've wrote Hanman it feels like the your limiting the rating system significantly.

It's WRITING people.  It always "needs" work.  Story's are constantly evolving creatures, sometimes freaks of nature that can mutate into something else entirely.  Nothing should ever really be "deleted" as the first star rating you've posted suggests.  Why would you hope you never had to read something again that could be completely different the second time through?  These are works in progress.  So since I vehemently disagree with what you've posted for 1 and 2 stars I guess by using your rating system I'm limited to three stars or higher?

I'll be using the sites recommendations that you very much.  Anyone who wants constructive truthful criticism, feel free to review my work and I'll get you back.  I'd appreciate that any reviewers that read my work use the sites definition and not a random set of definitions designed to artificially inflate the ratings.

Rileigh wrote:

wow, had no idea about the star ratings.  I was going based what the site said as well.  I think the site is much better.  By using the definitions you've wrote Hanman it feels like the your limiting the rating system significantly.

It's WRITING people.  It always "needs" work.  Story's are constantly evolving creatures, sometimes freaks of nature that can mutate into something else entirely.  Nothing should ever really be "deleted" as the first star rating you've posted suggests.  Why would you hope you never had to read something again that could be completely different the second time through?  These are works in progress.  So since I vehemently disagree with what you've posted for 1 and 2 stars I guess by using your rating system I'm limited to three stars or higher?

I'll be using the sites recommendations that you very much.  Anyone who wants constructive truthful criticism, feel free to review my work and I'll get you back.  I'd appreciate that any reviewers that read my work use the sites definition and not a random set of definitions designed to artificially inflate the ratings.

Hey Rileigh.
You seem to have misunderstood  me.
The rating system i gave above is not my own (as such) but rather a responce to how the people recieving certain star rating perceive them. I'm not saying it is either right or wrong, that is for you to decide. Go have a look in the Battererd Writers Syndrome forum on the site and you will quickly see just about every memeber here complain about ratings they have recieved at one time or another. And in my opinion they are justified to complain. Regardless of the site rules, ultimitly it is the users of the site that set the bounderies of those rules. And it is my experence that most of the users, by far, see the star rating closer to how i described it above then they do by the sites standard rules. I include myself in this. When i first joined i used the star system exactly as it was described but i very quickly learned that the people i was reviewing did not view the system the same way.  As a result of this i fell in line with my other writters and have had a much more pleasent experence since. And as for honesty? I have never given anyone i have ever read anything but an honest review and i don't believe i have ever recieved anything but an honest review either, wouldn't want to either. Writers will take a harder review more easily though and without taking offence, if that review is accompanied by, not to low a star rating. Why? Because we are all human and none of us want, or should be made, to feel that our work doesn't warrent praise on at least some level. Writing is by its nature subjective and the star system is objective, there for it is not an accurate way to get a point across and certainly not in a polite or friendly manner. In fact it does the exact opposite. It causes resentment and bitternes between people who came here looking for support and incouregment. I'm not saying that the start system should be removed or hidden, (in fact i wouldn't wish to see either) just used with due care and appriciation for our fellow writers.  And that view has become the cuture here and to go against it is to go against the culture and the people who have gathered and created it. In other words, our friends.

Last edited by hanman (05-14-2009 17:22:15)

mishmont wrote:

I had reviewers who had MAJOR impact on my story.  With no exception they each rated all the chapters a 5 knowing full well I listen to their words not their score.

Amen.

Rileigh wrote:

I'll continue to rate my way, you can continue to rate yours.

The bottom line is well conceived points for the author to consider.  That is what we care about.

Diomed Akren-duras wrote:

I think mishmont has hit the soul of this whole thing. I have no issue recieving 1s 2s or 3s in my work, so long as they are well founded. If i recieve a review with a 1 score, but the reviewer offers no solid advice, then its disheartening. If i recieve a review that's got a 1 and is brimming with advice, then that's helpful. I appreciate a honest opinion of my work, and i try to give mine to others. I've dished out 4 or 5s even to people who are not in the fantasy forum, and i've also given some 1s and 2s. But before i reach for 1 or 2, i make certain i have a very good reason, and that i outline that reason and give specific examples of how the author might fix it.

I agree wholeheartedly. I had one chapter that was previously reviewed to death and all the good suggestions, nitpics and such corrected. A person relatively new to the site reviewed it and gave a 3 but didn't really provide any significant feedback to justify that rating. I don't mind getting a star rating under 4 but I expect the write up to be fairly long and explain with examples of why they didn't find the material satisfactory.

My only concern would be if the star system somehow impacts contest entries. If it is taken into consideration say, for the strongest start three, then it needs to have better guidance to the newbies.

s_thatcher wrote:

Mishmont always gets to the soul of things. (Yay, mish!) The justification for the score is the little blurb that accompanies it. No one owes anyone any advice or justification, all that's owed is 50 words--them's the rules. The scores should be abolished. They serve no purpose whatsoever other than to inflate or deflate egos. The ratings/rankings mean squat.

I agree, which is why I'm not a fan of this other rating system.  And I _always_ put everything I liked and disliked about what I've been reviewing.  In fact I think that last review I did for you s_thatcher was my shortest one yet.  And that's only because I loved the story so much and it seemed already very polished and refined.  There really wasn't much I could say except how much I liked it!

Rileigh wrote:

There really wasn't much I could say except how much I liked it!

...shit happens.

I'm dipping my toes into the water very cautiously here, but I've already made my point about how I originally viewed the star system (post #28) and how I'm more than willing to set my own opinions aside to be an active member of this group.

That being said, does anybody put any stock in the site's ranking system? To the best of my understanding, it uses the star system.