Welcome: Visitor
 Login to the site Join the site

#1 04-04-2012 17:06:29

JElizabeth
Member
From: Albany, NY
Registered: 02-01-2011
Posts: 1914

Another potentially stupid grammar question!

Sunk vs. sank? I'm too lazy to look it up. Plus I trust you guys more than another internet source. tongue

Aidan actually appears to consider it. He loosens his grip enough that I can wriggle away. I rub where his fingers sunk too deep. “Well?â€


I don't know why you say goodbye I say hello

Offline

 

#2 04-04-2012 17:23:36

Memphis Trace
Member
From: Washington, DC
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 2689

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

JElizabeth wrote:

Sunk vs. sank? I'm too lazy to look it up. Plus I trust you guys more than another internet source. tongue

Aidan actually appears to consider it. He loosens his grip enough that I can wriggle away. I rub where his fingers sunk too deep. “Well?��

Either is correct. But sank sounds righter to me.

Memphis Trace


http://www.thenextbigwriter.com/library … read/56064

~ Writing fiction, just like poetry, is still an enchanting dance of words on paper. Make it a fun dance, one folks want to get jiggy with all night long, and they'll come back for more, every time. ~ Q.X.T. Rhazmeulen

Offline

 

#3 04-04-2012 22:45:01

Susan Stec
Member
From: Michigan
Registered: 06-29-2008
Posts: 4492
Website

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

Huh, i was  thinking sunk sounded better.


Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation ~~ Oscar Wilde
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/Susan-S … llproducts http://www.amazon.com/Susan-Stec/e/B004H6YF7M
http://thegratefulundead.blogspot.com/

Offline

 

#4 04-05-2012 09:47:38

Ceridwen
Member
Registered: 04-27-2010
Posts: 520

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

According to the dictionary, 'sank' and 'sunk' are the past tense of 'sink'. 

Well, the boat sank because the U-boat sunk the boat with a torpedo?  Yikes.  I think you could use either one and be correct.

Ceridwen

Offline

 

#5 04-05-2012 13:47:47

crazeesharon
Member
Registered: 03-15-2009
Posts: 2614

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

Sunk seems to sound  better when preceded by a passive: had sunk or was sunk.

Offline

 

#6 04-05-2012 13:57:05

Kydd Dustyn
Moderator
From: Earth
Registered: 04-14-2009
Posts: 2403
Website

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

sank

Sank is used with active voice.  Sunk is used with passive.


(Sank = past tense  Sunk = past participle)


Kydd

Last edited by Kydd Dustyn (04-05-2012 14:02:23)


Save the Blue.org--Stop illegal sharkfin harvesting!
Profile & Works

Offline

 

#7 04-05-2012 14:44:33

seabrass
Member
From: Waconia, MN
Registered: 03-02-2008
Posts: 166
Website

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

Why not avoid the problem entirely?

Aidan actually appears to consider it. He loosens his grip enough that I can wriggle away. I rub where his fingers gripped too hard.

Offline

 

#8 04-05-2012 15:31:57

Memphis Trace
Member
From: Washington, DC
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 2689

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

Kydd Dustyn wrote:

sank

Sank is used with active voice.  Sunk is used with passive.


(Sank = past tense  Sunk = past participle)


Kydd

Sunk is both simple past tense and past participle: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sunk?s=t
so you may use it or use sank which is simple past tense http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sank?s=t

For reasons unknown to me sank sounds better.

Memphis Trace

Last edited by Memphis Trace (04-05-2012 15:32:58)


http://www.thenextbigwriter.com/library … read/56064

~ Writing fiction, just like poetry, is still an enchanting dance of words on paper. Make it a fun dance, one folks want to get jiggy with all night long, and they'll come back for more, every time. ~ Q.X.T. Rhazmeulen

Offline

 

#9 04-05-2012 16:06:50

Kydd Dustyn
Moderator
From: Earth
Registered: 04-14-2009
Posts: 2403
Website

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

Sank because it's active voice and past tongue


From Grammarphobia.com

http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/ … -boat.html

Honey, I sunk the boat


Q: I’ve noticed that even the best-edited publications sometimes use “sunk† instead of “sank† for the past tense of “sink.† This leaves me with a sinking feeling. What can we do about the loss of a perfectly good four-letter word that can be spoken in any company?

A: Both “sank† and “sunk† are correct for the past tense of “sink.† The two are listed without comment in The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (4th ed.) and Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary (11th ed.), which means they’re considered standard English.

So it’s correct to say either “the boat sank† or “the boat sunk.† The past participle is “sunk,† as in “the boat has sunk.â€

In case you’re wondering, the same is true – almost! – for “shrink.â€

American Heritage says the past tense is “shrank,† while Merriam-Webster’s allows both “shrank† and “shrunk† in the past tense. But I think the writing is on the wall and “shrunk† will come to be accepted by American Heritage too.

Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary of English Usage says “shrunk† is “undoubtedly standard† in the past tense, though the preference in written usage seems to be for “shrank.â€

The usage guide adds that “in linguistic surveys conducted in the eastern and midwestern US several decades ago more than 80 percent of the people polled used shrunk in preference to shrank.â€

In 1995, William Safire drew catcalls from the “Gotcha!† gang for using “shrunk† in the past tense in the New York Times. Why did he do it? Here’s how he explained it:

“Because Walt Disney got to me, I guess: the 1989 movie Honey, I Shrunk the Kids did to ‘shrank’ what Winston cigarettes did to ‘as’: pushed usage in the direction of what people were casually saying rather than what they were carefully writing.â€

But back to “sunk,† which has bounced back and forth in acceptability over the centuries. Arguments over it are nothing new. For instance, I found a spirited defense of “sunk† in the past tense in an 1895 issue of the journal The Writer.

In the history of English, the use of “sunk† in the past tense has been “extremely common,† according to the Oxford English Dictionary.

In fact, the OED cites Samuel Johnson’s dictionary of 1755 as giving the past tense as “I sunk, anciently sank.â€

Johnson himself used “sunk† as the past tense, as in this citation from his treatise Taxation No Tyranny (1775): “The constitution sunk at once into a chaos.â€

But Johnson was right: “anciently,† to use his word, the accepted past tense was indeed “sank.â€

The verb was sincan in Old English, with the past tense sanc and the past participle suncon or suncen.

The old past tense seems to have been preserved into Middle English, the form of the language spoken between 1100 and 1500.

Here’s an example from Arthur and Merlin (circa 1330): “Wawain on the helme him smot, / The ax sank depe, god it wot.â€

But in modern English, both “sank† and “sunk† have appeared as past tenses. In fact, “sunk† may have been preferred in literary usage.

Here’s a citation from the Bible in 1611: “The stone sunke into his forehead.† And here’s an example, from Sir William Jones’s poem Seven Fountains (1767): “The light bark, and all the airy crew, / Sunk like a mist beneath the briny dew.â€

“Sunk† was used by Addison and Steele in the Spectator in the 18th century, and by Sir Walter Scott in the 19th.

In fact, Scott’s novels are full of “sunk,† as in this passage from The Heart of Midlothian (1818): “Jeanie sunk down on a chair, with clasped hands, and gasped in agony.â€

Some commentators have suggested that the return of the “sink/sank/sunk† progression (along with a distaste for “sunk† as a past tense) may have been influenced by the similar irregular verbs “drink/drank/drunk,† “swim/swam/swum,† “ring/rang/rung,† and others.

This common pattern, by the way, probably inspired “brang† and “flang† as illegitimate past tenses of “bring† and “fling.â€

And it probably also brought about “snuck,† the much-reviled past tense of “sneak,† which dictionaries now accept as standard English and which I’ve written about before on the blog.

To recap, these days it’s no crime to say “the boat sunk† or – depending on which dictionary you read – “my jeans shrunk.â€

But the grammar police will still nab you for using a past participle instead of the simple past when that’s inappropriate, as in “The bell rung† or “I drunk the milk† or “She sung off key.â€

Last edited by Kydd Dustyn (04-05-2012 16:12:25)


Save the Blue.org--Stop illegal sharkfin harvesting!
Profile & Works

Offline

 

#10 04-06-2012 01:00:09

Memphis Trace
Member
From: Washington, DC
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 2689

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

Memphis Trace wrote:

Kydd Dustyn wrote:

sank

Sank is used with active voice.  Sunk is used with passive.


(Sank = past tense  Sunk = past participle)


Kydd

Sunk is both simple past tense and past participle: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sunk?s=t
so you may use it or use sank which is simple past tense http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sank?s=t

For reasons unknown to me sank sounds better.

Memphis Trace

Chances are real good that sunk  is indigenous to certain parts of the country and sank to others. Your choice should be one of 'voice' over grammar. If you find yourself stuck in the hills with an eager grammarian as a main character, you can't go wrong. Eager grammarians come down firmly on both sides of the fence. And just love to argue.

If you wanted the 'voice' to have the recognizability that would accrue to it from using words like flang and brang, you should carefully choose which you use. And maybe even throw in a 'flang' or two as local color. People who buy books would probably love it even if it caused eager grammarians to grind their teeth.

In one story I wrote, I created the word 'brug' as the past tense for 'brag'. I say 'created' because it was the first time I ever saw the word in print. It felt so right that I'd defend it to the death as the right word given the 'voice' I wanted a reader to embrace. Chances are it came out of a long forgotten memory of the sound being uttered when I was growing up so it was more likely a gift of the muse rather than my creation.

Memphis Trace

Last edited by Memphis Trace (04-06-2012 01:02:58)


http://www.thenextbigwriter.com/library … read/56064

~ Writing fiction, just like poetry, is still an enchanting dance of words on paper. Make it a fun dance, one folks want to get jiggy with all night long, and they'll come back for more, every time. ~ Q.X.T. Rhazmeulen

Offline

 

#11 04-06-2012 06:34:07

j l mo
Member
From: Orlando, Florida
Registered: 02-12-2011
Posts: 876
Website

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

Sorry to interrupt, but does anyone else hear Boris Karloff singing?

Listen...

"Stink! Stank! Stunk!"

Sorry, wrong tune! lol


Numbers don't lie. But they do back each other up!

Offline

 

#12 04-06-2012 08:59:35

Kydd Dustyn
Moderator
From: Earth
Registered: 04-14-2009
Posts: 2403
Website

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

Well, I have my Master's degree in English and taught high school English for a while and still find that some grammar points confound me.  Personally, after Congress wasted valuable time and taxpayer money deciding if they should drop the "a" from archaeology, I lost all confidence in grammar and spelling authorities.  I'm a rebel.  I still spell it with an "a".  lol

I figure, as long as you get your point across, and it sounds alright to the inner ear, you've done your job.  Editors will sometimes take a different approach to punctuation and grammar, so you'll end up changing things anyway (even if they're wrong--authoritatively speaking).

Kydd

Last edited by Kydd Dustyn (04-06-2012 09:01:02)


Save the Blue.org--Stop illegal sharkfin harvesting!
Profile & Works

Offline

 

#13 04-06-2012 12:53:48

Dan Philips
Member
Registered: 04-18-2009
Posts: 507

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

I say...ring the doorbell and run.


Acceptance should not be an implacable template placed at the foot of human kind.  Let us use tolerance as the rod that governs our standard.

Offline

 

#14 04-06-2012 13:44:54

j l mo
Member
From: Orlando, Florida
Registered: 02-12-2011
Posts: 876
Website

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

Dan Philips wrote:

I say...ring the doorbell and run.

lol lol lol


Numbers don't lie. But they do back each other up!

Offline

 

#15 05-20-2012 20:55:33

w. e. turner
Member
From: El Dorado, Kansas
Registered: 09-07-2011
Posts: 152
Website

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

JElizabeth wrote:

Sunk vs. sank? I'm too lazy to look it up. Plus I trust you guys more than another internet source. tongue

Aidan actually appears to consider it. He loosens his grip enough that I can wriggle away. I rub where his fingers sunk too deep. “Well?��

So, which is it?  'We sunk the skunk.'  Or 'We sank the skank'?  'Sunk the skank'?  'Sank the skunk'? 'Skunk the skank'? 'Sunk the sank'?  Sounds like the possibilities are many.

Last edited by w. e. turner (05-20-2012 21:01:05)


"Anyone who says they have only one life to live must not know how to read a book."

   --  Author Unknown

Offline

 

#16 05-20-2012 21:25:42

vern
Member
Registered: 12-27-2007
Posts: 3425

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

Well, it is an old thread, but since it's been resurrected, I wouldn't say sink, sank, or sunk, or any of that junk; I'd say, "... rubbed the washboard rows his fingers left." or such. I guess opinions are about a dime a dozen, but to quote an old punch line, " If the log sinks, we'll all drown." Take care. Vern


If one must die in order to live forever, then what is the purpose in dying? Luke Peters

http://www.thenextbigwriter.com/library … .html/vern

Offline

 

#17 05-21-2012 16:49:33

JElizabeth
Member
From: Albany, NY
Registered: 02-01-2011
Posts: 1914

Re: Another potentially stupid grammar question!

Ack, I forgot about this thread! Thanks so much for your help, guys. I ultimately submitted the contest entry with the original word "sunk" in place because it "sounded" better to my little ear. And no one was able to prove to me that it was dead wrong. wink Aren't you glad you helped? LOL. <3


I don't know why you say goodbye I say hello

Offline

 

Board footer


About | News | Contact | Writing Resources | Affiliate Program | Blog | Booksie Online Publishing
THE NEXT BIG WRITER © 2008 | All rights reserved. Terms under which this service is provided to you. Privacy Policy.
 
Valid HTML 4.01! Valid CSS!